Author Topic: Israel’s Nazi Gas Chamber Is Itself Gassed  (Read 10135 times)

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Israel’s Nazi Gas Chamber Is Itself Gassed
« on: August 24, 2007, 08:17:56 PM »
Israel’s Only Crematorium Is Itself Burnt

(IsraelNN.com) A commercial crematorium in Israel was heavily damaged by fire Wednesday night. The outdoor oven belongs to the only cremation company in Israel, Alei Shalechet, located in the town of Hibat Zion in the center of the country. Firefighters say they suspect that unknown perpetrators set fire to the building.

Cremation of human bodies is forbidden under Jewish law. Shas Minister Yitzhak Cohen proposed Thursday to outlaw the Alei Shalechet company.


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Re: Israel’s Nazi Gas Chamber Is Itself Gassed
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2007, 09:20:17 PM »
Good!

Such a thing has NO PLACE in EY.

Offline whywhywhy

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Re: Israel’s Nazi Gas Chamber Is Itself Gassed
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2007, 05:38:24 AM »
Cemeteries take a lot of land. Israel does not have enough land. All the burial system is going to collapse very soon.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2007, 11:47:36 AM by whywhywhy »

Offline genteelgentile

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Re: Israel’s Nazi Gas Chamber Is Itself Gassed
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2007, 05:50:55 AM »
That is why Israel needs to take it's land back!
I LOVE dogs because muslims do not!!!!  Have your dog kiss a muslim today!

Offline whywhywhy

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Re: Israel’s Nazi Gas Chamber Is Itself Gassed
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2007, 06:02:48 AM »
That is why Israel needs to take it's land back!
Atleast not to give back any more land. That is not the only reason.

Offline Zionist Revolutionary

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Re: Israel’s Nazi Gas Chamber Is Itself Gassed
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2007, 02:56:13 AM »
What a holy thing that has happened.  Baruch HaShem, this evil is purged from Israel, if only for a temporary time.  I can surmise that the Anti-G-d people in Israel will fight to have it rebuilt.  G-d willing, it will be gone for good, though.

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Re: Israel’s Nazi Gas Chamber Is Itself Gassed
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2007, 10:19:43 AM »
Can I ask where in the Tanakh cremation is forbidden?

Offline TorahZionist

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Re: Israel’s Nazi Gas Chamber Is Itself Gassed
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2007, 01:20:39 PM »
http://www.askmoses.com/article.html?h=284&o=412779

What is the Torah’s opinion on cremation?
by Rabbi Moshe Miller

 The Torah permits burial only. The source for this is in the verse where G-d tells Adam: “For you are dust and to the dust you will return” (Genesis 3:19). This idea is reiterated in Ecclesiastes 12:7: “The dust shall return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return to G-d who gave it.”


Even a body that is no longer alive is accorded the greatest consideration and respectThe Jewish way of dealing with death is part of a larger philosophy of life which views the human body as integral to one’s Divine service, so that even a body that is no longer alive is accorded the greatest consideration and respect.

Deuteronomy 21:22-3 even prohibits the desecration of the body of a person who incurred the death penalty: “You shall bury him on that day, for a hanging person is an insult to G-d.” The Talmud and commentaries explain: It is a degradation of the King, for man is made in His image.

ftf

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Re: Israel’s Nazi Gas Chamber Is Itself Gassed
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2007, 01:34:12 PM »
Why would someone want to destroy their body after they die?

Besides the above logical sane thought, it is forbidden because we are supposed to be returned to The Earth because that is where we came from and because the body has to be intact for The Resurrection of The Dead.


This argument makes no sense, when you bury a body it slowly decays away till all that is left is the bones.

TorahZionist: Thanks very much.

Offline Shlomo

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Re: Israel’s Nazi Gas Chamber Is Itself Gassed
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2007, 07:24:40 PM »
There is a kind of bone or organ no bigger than a barley corn called the luz bone or neskvi. Its shape is almost cubic and apparently it lies at the top of the spine, inside the skull underneath the brain. It is described as having within it many intertwined spider-like blood vessels.

It is indestructible and doesn't decay in the grave. The Midrash says that the Roman Hadrian once took a luz and tried to grind it, burn it, and dissolve it in water, to no avail. When he hammered it against an anvil, the hammer and anvil broke.

The future resurrection of the dead will be from this bone... that is, a person will be resurrected from his luz bone. If you destroy this bone during cremation, it is very bad.

Some believe this may occur through technology. Some believe it will be supernatural when the Messiah comes.
"In the final analysis, for the believer there are no questions, and for the non-believer there are no answers." -Chofetz Chaim

Offline Shlomo

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Re: Israel’s Nazi Gas Chamber Is Itself Gassed
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2007, 07:34:02 PM »
Here is the commentary on the luz bone and cloning:

http://beismoshiach.org/Moshiach/moshiach350.htm

And here is a further description about cremation:

http://www.aish.com/societywork/sciencenature/Cremation.asp

Quote
Cremation is forbidden in Judaism because death is more than just a body. It's a soul.

With today's high cost of burial -- casket, tombstone, plot of land -- many are opting for cremation. What is the Jewish position?

Judaism permits only burial. The source for this comes from the Torah, where G-d tells Adam:

You will return to the ground, for it was from the ground that you were taken. (Genesis 3:19)

Judaism not only specifically forbids cremation, but insists on a very simple burial directly into the ground.Let's understand why.

BODY AND SOUL

Upon death, the soul goes through a painful separation from the body, which until now had housed the soul. This process of disengagement occurs as the body decays. When the body is buried, it decays slowly, thereby giving comfort to the soul as it disengages from the body.

Jewish law forbids embalming or burial in a mausoleum, which would delay the decaying process.   

This decay is crucial, which is why Jewish law forbids embalming or burial in a mausoleum, which would in fact delay the decaying process.

Also, Jews are buried in a wooden casket, which decays more rapidly. Similarly, Jewish law dictates that burial take place as soon as possible after death. (In Israel, funerals often take place on the same day as the death.) All this is for the benefit of the soul.

One reason that Judaism prohibits cremation is that the soul would suffer great shock due to the unnaturally sudden disengagement from the body. As the Talmud says:

Burial is not for the sake of the living, but rather for the dead. (Sanhedrin 47a)

What about the millions of Jews cremated in Nazi ovens? The Almighty certainly guarded their souls from needless agony.

RESURRECTION

Jewish tradition records that with burial, a single bone in the back of the neck never decays. It is from this bone -- called the luz bone -- that the human body will be rebuilt in the future Messianic Era when all the dead will be resurrected.

With cremation, that bone can be destroyed, and the resurrection process stymied.

In fact, someone who chooses cremation is as if he does not believe in resurrection.

Resurrection is a fundamental belief of Judaism, as expressed in Maimonides' classical "13 Principles of Faith":

I believe with complete faith that there will be a resurrection of the dead, whenever the wish emanates from the Creator.

Sources:
Beit Yitzchak, Yoreh Deah II, 195 (based on Talmud - Temurah 34a).
Achiezer III, 72:4 (based on Deut. 21:23, and Maimonides - Laws of Sanhedrin 15:8).
"In the final analysis, for the believer there are no questions, and for the non-believer there are no answers." -Chofetz Chaim

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Israel’s Nazi Gas Chamber Is Itself Gassed
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2007, 07:35:20 PM »
I understand that cremation is against Jewish law regarding the treatment of the dead, but if it happens, why can't G-d reconstruct the ashes and resurrect the person anyway?

I am not defending it, but at the same time, I don't see how it could prevent a person from being restored by the L-rd either.

Offline jdl4ever

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Re: Israel’s Nazi Gas Chamber Is Itself Gassed
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2007, 07:37:39 PM »
G-d can resurrect people from ashes as well.  The prohibition on cremation in Judaism an ancient custom so we don't really understand the reason for it but it has been around forever so we must follow it. 
"Enough weeping and wailing; and the following of leaders & rabbis who are pygmies of little faith & less understanding."
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ftf

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Re: Israel’s Nazi Gas Chamber Is Itself Gassed
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2007, 08:00:17 PM »
There is a kind of bone or organ no bigger than a barley corn called the luz bone or neskvi. Its shape is almost cubic and apparently it lies at the top of the spine, inside the skull underneath the brain. It is described as having within it many intertwined spider-like blood vessels.

It is indestructible and doesn't decay in the grave. The Midrash says that the Roman Hadrian once took a luz and tried to grind it, burn it, and dissolve it in water, to no avail. When he hammered it against an anvil, the hammer and anvil broke.

The future resurrection of the dead will be from this bone... that is, a person will be resurrected from his luz bone. If you destroy this bone during cremation, it is very bad.

Some believe this may occur through technology. Some believe it will be supernatural when the Messiah comes.
This account makes no sense at all to me.

"It is indestructible and doesn't decay in the grave. The Midrash says that the Roman Hadrian once took a luz and tried to grind it, burn it, and dissolve it in water, to no avail. When he hammered it against an anvil, the hammer and anvil broke."

"If you destroy this bone during cremation"

If he couldn't burn it, how could it be destroyed in cremation?

I personally do not think the ressurrection of the dead will in anyway involve our physical bodies from this planet.

It just doesn't make any sense to me, I believe that our souls will pass onto the next live, our bodies returning to dust.

newman

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Re: Israel’s Nazi Gas Chamber Is Itself Gassed
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2007, 08:11:34 PM »
There is a kind of bone or organ no bigger than a barley corn called the luz bone or neskvi. Its shape is almost cubic and apparently it lies at the top of the spine, inside the skull underneath the brain. It is described as having within it many intertwined spider-like blood vessels.

It is indestructible and doesn't decay in the grave. The Midrash says that the Roman Hadrian once took a luz and tried to grind it, burn it, and dissolve it in water, to no avail. When he hammered it against an anvil, the hammer and anvil broke.

The future resurrection of the dead will be from this bone... that is, a person will be resurrected from his luz bone. If you destroy this bone during cremation, it is very bad.

Some believe this may occur through technology. Some believe it will be supernatural when the Messiah comes.
This account makes no sense at all to me.

"It is indestructible and doesn't decay in the grave. The Midrash says that the Roman Hadrian once took a luz and tried to grind it, burn it, and dissolve it in water, to no avail. When he hammered it against an anvil, the hammer and anvil broke."

"If you destroy this bone during cremation"

If he couldn't burn it, how could it be destroyed in cremation?

I personally do not think the ressurrection of the dead will in anyway involve our physical bodies from this planet.

It just doesn't make any sense to me, I believe that our souls will pass onto the next live, our bodies returning to dust.

Here he goes opposing and questioning Torah, Talmud and Rabbinical rulings................AGAIN!

ftf

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Re: Israel’s Nazi Gas Chamber Is Itself Gassed
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2007, 08:19:43 PM »
I'm not questionging the torah, I do however question the rabinical decisions, I see no mention of this bone in the torah.

Newman, if GOd did not intend us to think about things he would not have given us brains.

I intend to be burried not cremated, however, these ideas for why one should be make no sense at all to me.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2007, 08:21:18 PM by ftf »

Offline cjd

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Re: Israel’s Nazi Gas Chamber Is Itself Gassed
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2007, 08:28:33 PM »
I'm not questionging the torah, I do however question the rabinical decisions, I see no mention of this bone in the torah.

Newman, if G-d did not intend us to think about things he would not have given us brains.

I intend to be burried not cremated, however, these ideas for why one should be make no sense at all to me.
ftf google Luz bone there is quite a bit written on it on some interesting sites.
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ftf

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Re: Israel’s Nazi Gas Chamber Is Itself Gassed
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2007, 08:30:22 PM »
I'm not questionging the torah, I do however question the rabinical decisions, I see no mention of this bone in the torah.

Newman, if G-d did not intend us to think about things he would not have given us brains.

I intend to be burried not cremated, however, these ideas for why one should be make no sense at all to me.
ftf google Luz bone there is quite a bit written on it on some interesting sites.
I'll look into it.

Offline jdl4ever

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Re: Israel’s Nazi Gas Chamber Is Itself Gassed
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2007, 09:26:45 PM »
The Luz bone isn't from the Torah per se, it's from the Medrish commentary which at times has some unusual opinions on things.  Questioning this opinion is not going against the Torah, since it is one commentary. I also don't think that this bone can't be destroyed, when you cremate someone, you destroy everything.
"Enough weeping and wailing; and the following of leaders & rabbis who are pygmies of little faith & less understanding."
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Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Israel’s Nazi Gas Chamber Is Itself Gassed
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2007, 10:18:34 PM »
Newman, I don't think he said anything wrong. I don't like your perpetuating this feud with him at all. This is a very important moment for JTF and Chaim and we need maximum unity.

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Re: Israel’s Nazi Gas Chamber Is Itself Gassed
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2007, 10:21:40 PM »
Newman, I don't think he said anything wrong. I don't like your perpetuating this feud with him at all. This is a very important moment for JTF and Chaim and we need maximum unity.

Yeah, Well I don't like him constantly challenging Jews to prove their beliefs. So tuff.

Offline DownwithIslam

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Re: Israel’s Nazi Gas Chamber Is Itself Gassed
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2007, 10:24:36 PM »
I am against cremation. The fact that Nazis cremated jews tells us something about it.
I am urinating on a Koran.

Offline jdl4ever

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Re: Israel’s Nazi Gas Chamber Is Itself Gassed
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2007, 12:57:42 AM »
When morons burn dead bodies, the bones don't get burnt. In order for the bones to be destroyed, they have to be pulverized (grounded up) after the burning. The Nazis didn't pulverize the Jews that they burnt. In Judaism, burning dead bodies is a form of punishment that is reserved for Jew haters and Jew killers such as Adolf Eichmann, YM"S. Now days it should be done to The Arab Muslim Nazis.

Wrong.  When they cremate them, the temperature is so high that everything turns into ashes. 
"Enough weeping and wailing; and the following of leaders & rabbis who are pygmies of little faith & less understanding."
"I believe very much in a nation beating their swords into plowshears but when my enemy has a sword I don't want a plowshear"
-Rabbi Meir Kahane Zs'l HYD

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Israel’s Nazi Gas Chamber Is Itself Gassed
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2007, 12:59:24 AM »
Quote from: newman
Yeah, Well I don't like him constantly challenging Jews to prove their beliefs. So tuff.
He wasn't picking a fight. He was curious about why they believe what they do about cremation.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Israel’s Nazi Gas Chamber Is Itself Gassed
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2007, 01:00:10 AM »
Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim
In Judaism, burning dead bodies is a form of punishment that is reserved for Jew haters and Jew killers such as Adolf Eichmann, YM"S. Now days it should be done to The Arab Muslim Nazis.


Why do we need to wait until the Nazis die to burn them?  ;)