Author Topic: I would like Cruz to say - He would support the rebuilding of the Temple  (Read 3899 times)

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Offline edu

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Although it's kind of hard to see the current evil government of Israel to agree to the rebuilding of the Temple, sometime in the future new leadership will come to power that will be pro-Temple.
For the benefit of that future leadership, I would like Cruz to say that if the government of Israel would ever decide to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem, America would be supportive of the process, for example, vetoing any Anti-Israel resolution that the UN might want to impose, etc.
I would like Cruz to say that if Israel were to bomb the nuclear facilities in Iran, the USA would not stand in Israel's way.
I would like Cruz to say that the current peace process is doomed to failure and to draw up a concrete plan for resettling the so-called "Palestinians" in a distant third country. Maybe he could also dump all the illegal immigrants to the USA there too.
I would like Cruz to come out against the European Union which is soft on Muslim Anti-Semitism.
I would like Cruz to come out in favor of letting Jonathan Pollard live in Israel.
I would like Cruz to come out in favor of Jewish Prisoners in Jail getting full access to kosher food and/or other religious needs. The facts on the ground show that some jails are tolerant and some not.

Offline jeffellenbogen

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not allowed to build the temple, as the temple mount is off-limits because we are all tamei mes

Offline cjd

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Although it's kind of hard to see the current evil government of Israel to agree to the rebuilding of the Temple, sometime in the future new leadership will come to power that will be pro-Temple.
For the benefit of that future leadership, I would like Cruz to say that if the government of Israel would ever decide to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem, America would be supportive of the process, for example, vetoing any Anti-Israel resolution that the UN might want to impose, etc.
I would like Cruz to say that if Israel were to bomb the nuclear facilities in Iran, the USA would not stand in Israel's way.
I would like Cruz to say that the current peace process is doomed to failure and to draw up a concrete plan for resettling the so-called "Palestinians" in a distant third country. Maybe he could also dump all the illegal immigrants to the USA there too.
I would like Cruz to come out against the European Union which is soft on Muslim Anti-Semitism.
I would like Cruz to come out in favor of letting Jonathan Pollard live in Israel.
I would like Cruz to come out in favor of Jewish Prisoners in Jail getting full access to kosher food and/or other religious needs. The facts on the ground show that some jails are tolerant and some not.
The bottom line is that Cruz is running for president of the United States not Prime Minister of Israel... He needs to speak of addressing  problems at hand here in the United States... Should he gain office he can then try to address the issues you speak of... I think he has has shown that his support of Israel is good and he will follow up on many of the issues that face Israel should he gain office.
He who overlooks one crime invites the commission of another.        Syrus.

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Offline Yehudayaakov

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not allowed to build the temple, as the temple mount is off-limits because we are all tamei mes

This is an invalid argument.

Offline edu

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response to jeffellenbogen
Rambam (Maimonides) Hilchot Beit Habechira 7:23 shows us you are not correct.
Here's the english translation as provided by the Chabad web site.
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Halacha 23

There was a place in the upper storey [of the Temple]78which was located directly opposite the Holy of Holies.It was entered only once in seven years, to [inspect it] and find out what is necessary for its repair.

When builders [are required] to enter the Temple building to construct or repair it, or to remove an impure object, it is a mitzvah for the [craftsmen] who enter to be priests who do not possess any disqualifying physical deformities.

If no [capable craftsmen meeting those criteria] can be found, priests with disqualifying deformities should enter.

If none are found, Levites should enter.

If none are found, Israelites should enter.

It is a mitzvah for [those who enter] to be ritually pure. If no [capable craftsman] who are ritually pure can be found, impure [craftsmen] may enter.

[If there is a choice between a craftsman] who is impure and a priest with a disqualifying deformity, the priest with the deformity should enter, for [although the prohibitions against] ritual impurity are put aside in regard to matters which concern the entire people, [they are not relaxed completely].

All those who enter to repair the Temple should be lowered down inside crates [from the upper floor].If no crates are available or if it is impossible [to make arrangements for them to enter] using crates, they may enter through the [usual] entrances.
Rabbi Tzvi Pesach Frank said that the impure (when we don't have other options) can build even just the altar on the Temple Mount.

Offline edu

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response to CJD
that said
Quote
The bottom line is that Cruz is running for president of the United States not Prime Minister of Israel... He needs to speak of addressing  problems at hand here in the United States... Should he gain office he can then try to address the issues you speak of... I think he has has shown that his support of Israel is good and he will follow up on many of the issues that face Israel should he gain office.
If Cruz is not willing to make real concrete proposals now, of how he is going to support Israel when he is in the biggest need of the pro-Israel vote, I think it will be ten times more difficult for him to do it, once he gets into office.
Furthermore George W.Bush claimed he would be a good friend of Israel, but in reality he just carried on the murderous peace process of the previous years.
I would like for Cruz to actually prove that he will be different from Obama by making some statement that would "burn the bridges" towards a return to the Bush-Obama policies.

Offline Zelhar

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I agree with CJD.
Cruz is running for POTUS your demands from him are ridiculous. He is by far the best friend for Israel and the Jews that of any candidate.

Offline Tony Rubolotta

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I agree with CJD.
Cruz is running for POTUS your demands from him are ridiculous. He is by far the best friend for Israel and the Jews that of any candidate.

I also agree with CJD and you.  To go a little farther, isn't it the present government of Israel blocking the rebuilding?  It would be very awkward for an American president to interfere in the internal politics of Israel.  If Israeli citizens want the temple rebuilt, which I fully support, they need to install a government willing to do that.  I think if that were done, Cruz would support Israel from the standpoint of exercising sovereignty over its own land.

Offline edu

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Obama has made the current government of Israel so afraid they are even freeze building permits in many parts of Jerusalem.
Without a strong statement in the opposite direction, the cowardly politicians in Israel will make certain assumptions about what they can or can not "get away with", that will prevent them from doing the right thing on a whole range of issues.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 01:10:16 AM by edu »

Offline edu

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response to zelhar who said
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Cruz is running for POTUS your demands from him are ridiculous. He is by far the best friend for Israel and the Jews that of any candidate.
I will remind you that George W. Bush "liked" the state of Israel more than his Democratic opponents.
But did that help Israel? He still continued with the same disastrous peace process.
Liking the state of Israel does not prove you have the political "guts" to actually change policy.
And if even the friends of Israel on this forum are too politically correct to demand real changes from a possible Cruz administration, how realistic is this to expect this from Cruz?
I also wish to remind you that Rabbi Kahane would often criticize Jews who would give their "all" for non-Jewish issues, but when it came to Jewish interests, they were completely silent.
It is our job to advocate Jewish interests, because that's what the Bible tells us.

Offline edu

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The fact that establishment Republicans until now have promised many things but once they have gotten into power haven't really changed much, is what makes Trump so popular. People are hoping that if Trump is willing to say politically incorrect statements, he will actually be politically incorrect and make change.
When it comes to trusting Trump, facts brought up by Chaim Ben Pesach and others have convinced me that he will not carry out his promises for change in the way we would like.
But Cruz should learn from Trump at least one thing. The people want to hear politically incorrect statements as a "down payment" for real change in policy.

Offline Israel Chai

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There is no rebuilding, so you want Cruz to support the idea.

Jeb Bush supported going back in time to kill baby Hitler, but even that wasn't good enough for Vermin supreme.

It's not going to gain him one pro-Israel vote, but it will lose him votes from people who'll think he wants to go in and make it.
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Offline Zelhar

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As an advocate for Israel, your best result clearly lies with voting and supporting Ted Cruz.

I would take G.W Bush over any Democrat of the past 50 years. Still it was obvious from the get go he was an establishment politician that was merely relatively not so bad on Israel. The expulsion from Gaza and northern Samaria is 100% Israeli government responsibility. It was entirely self-imposed.

From what I can tell Ted Cruz is not the garden variety fake politicians. He has stuck to his principles and believes so far. His unprecedented support of Israel is not the politically correct thing to do and say. Had he been a lying sleazeball of a politician, he would have been much more opaque.




response to zelhar who saidI will remind you that George W. Bush "liked" the state of Israel more than his Democratic opponents.
But did that help Israel? He still continued with the same disastrous peace process.
Liking the state of Israel does not prove you have the political "guts" to actually change policy.
And if even the friends of Israel on this forum are too politically correct to demand real changes from a possible Cruz administration, how realistic is this to expect this from Cruz?
I also wish to remind you that Rabbi Kahane would often criticize Jews who would give their "all" for non-Jewish issues, but when it came to Jewish interests, they were completely silent.
It is our job to advocate Jewish interests, because that's what the Bible tells us.

Offline edu

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Let me remind those who don't know history well, about the antics of George W. Bush
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_map_for_peace
Quote
The Roadmap for peace or road map for peace was a plan to resolve the proposed by the : the United States, the European Union, Russia and the United Nations. The principles of the plan, originally drafted by U.S. Foreign Service Officer Donald Blome, were first outlined by U.S. President George W. Bush in a speech on 24 June 2002, in which he called for an independent Palestinian state living side by side with Israel in peace.[1][2] A draft version from the Bush administration was published as early as 14 November 2002. The final text was released on 30 April 2003.
Even after all the evils committed by the so-called palestinians even during his time as president, he still had the gall to try to shove the peace process once again down Israel's throat at Annapolis
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFA-Archive/2007/Pages/Address%20by%20President%20George%20Bush%20to%20the%20Annapolis%20Conference%2027-Nov-2007.aspx

Address by President George Bush to the Annapolis Conference
27 Nov 2007

 

PRESIDENT BUSH: Thank you for coming. Prime Minister Olmert, President Abbas, Secretary General Ban, former Prime Minister Blair, distinguished guests: Welcome to one of the finest institutes we have in America, the United States Naval Academy. We appreciate you joining us in what I believe is an historic opportunity to encourage the expansion of freedom and peace in the Holy Land.

We meet to lay the foundation for the establishment of a new nation - a democratic Palestinian state that will live side by side with Israel in peace and security. We meet to help bring an end to the violence that has been the true enemy of the aspirations of both the Israelis and Palestinians.

We're off to a strong start. I'm about to read a statement that was agreed upon by our distinguished guests:

The representatives of the government of the state of Israel and the Palestinian Liberation Organization, represented respective by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, and President Mahmoud Abbas in his capacity as Chairman of the PLO Executive Committee and President of the Palestinian Authority, have convened in Annapolis, Maryland, under the auspices of President George W. Bush of the United States of America, and with the support of the participants of this international conference, having concluded the following joint understanding.

We express our determination to bring an end to bloodshed, suffering and decades of conflict between our peoples; to usher in a new era of peace, based on freedom, security, justice, dignity, respect and mutual recognition; to propagate a culture of peace and nonviolence; to confront terrorism and incitement, whether committed by Palestinians or Israelis. In furtherance of the goal of two states, Israel and Palestine living side by side in peace and security, we agree to immediately launch good-faith bilateral negotiations in order to conclude a peace treaty, resolving all outstanding issues, including all core issues, without exception, as specified in previous agreements.

We agree to engage in vigorous, ongoing and continuous negotiations, and shall make every effort to conclude an agreement before the end of 2008. For this purpose, a steering committee, led jointly by the head of the delegation of each party, will meet continuously, as agreed. The steering committee will develop a joint work plan and establish and oversee the work of negotiations teams to address all issues, to be headed by one lead representative from each party. The first session of the steering committee will be held on 12 December 2007.

President Abbas and Prime Minister Olmert will continue to meet on a bi-weekly basis to follow up the negotiations in order to offer all necessary assistance for their advancement.

The parties also commit to immediately implement their respective obligations under the performance-based road map to a permanent two-state solution to the Israel-Palestinian conflict, issued by the Quartet on 30 April 2003 - this is called the road map - and agree to form an American, Palestinian and Israeli mechanism, led by the United States, to follow up on the implementation of the road map.

The parties further commit to continue the implementation of the ongoing obligations of the road map until they reach a peace treaty. The United States will monitor and judge the fulfillment of the commitment of both sides of the road map. Unless otherwise agreed by the parties, implementation of the future peace treaty will be subject to the implementation of the road map, as judged by the United States.

Congratulations for your strong leadership.

The Palestinian people are blessed with many gifts and talents. They want the opportunity to use those gifts to better their own lives and build a better future for their children. They want the dignity that comes with sovereignty and independence. They want justice and equality under the rule of law. They want freedom from violence and fear.

The people of Israel have just aspirations, as well. They want their children to be able to ride a bus or to go to school without fear of suicide bombers. They want an end to rocket attacks and constant threats of assault. They want their nation to be recognized and welcomed in the region where they live.

Today, Palestinians and Israelis each understand that helping the other to realize their aspirations is key to realizing their own aspirations - and both require an independent, democratic, viable Palestinian state. Such a state will provide Palestinians with the chance to lead lives of freedom and purpose and dignity. Such a state will help provide the Israelis with something they have been seeking for generations: to live in peace with their neighbors.

Achieving this goal is not going to be easy - if it were easy, it would have happened a long time ago. To achieve freedom and peace, both Israelis and Palestinians will have to make tough choices. Both sides are sober about the work ahead, but having spent time with their leaders, they are ready to take on the tough issues. As Prime Minister Olmert recently put it, "We will avoid none of [the historic questions], we will not run from discussing any of them." As President Abbas has said: "I believe that there is an opportunity not only for us but for the Israelis, too. We have a historic and important opportunity that we must benefit from." It is with that spirit that we concluded - that they concluded this statement I just read.

Our purpose here in Annapolis is not to conclude an agreement. Rather, it is to launch negotiations between the Israelis and the Palestinians. For the rest of us, our job is to encourage the parties in this effort - and to give them the support they need to succeed.

In light of recent developments, some have suggested that now is not the right time to pursue peace. I disagree. I believe now is precisely the right time to begin these negotiations - for a number of reasons:

First, the time is right because Palestinians and Israelis have leaders who are determined to achieve peace. President Abbas seeks to fulfill his people's aspirations for statehood, dignity and security. President Abbas understands that a Palestinian state will not be born of terror, and that terrorism is the enemy standing in the way of a state. He and Prime Minister Fayyad have both declared, without hesitation, that they are opposed to terrorism and committed to peace. They're committed to turning these declarations into actions on the ground to combat terror.

The emergence of responsible Palestinian leaders has given Israeli leaders the confidence they need to reach out to the Palestinians in true partnership. Prime Minister Olmert has expressed his understanding of the suffering and indignities felt by the Palestinian people. He's made clear that the security of Israel will be enhanced by the establishment of a responsible, democratic Palestinian state. With leaders of courage and conviction on both sides, now is the time to come together and seek the peace that both sides desire.

Second, the time is right because a battle is underway for the future of the Middle East - and we must not cede victory to the extremists. With their violent actions and contempt for human life, the extremists are seeking to impose a dark vision on the Palestinian people - a vision that feeds on hopelessness and despair to sow chaos in the Holy Land. If this vision prevails, the future of the region will be endless terror, endless war, and endless suffering.

Standing against this dark vision are President Abbas and his government. They are offering the Palestinian people an alternative vision for the future - a vision of peace, a homeland of their own, and a better life. If responsible Palestinian leaders can deliver on this vision, they will deal the forces of extremism a devastating blow. And when liberty takes root in the rocky soil of the West Bank and Gaza, it will inspire millions across the Middle East who want their societies built on freedom and peace and hope.

By contrast, if Palestinian reformers cannot deliver on this hopeful vision, then the forces of extremism and terror will be strengthened, a generation of Palestinians could be lost to the extremists, and the Middle East will grow in despair. We cannot allow this to happen. Now is the time to show Palestinians that their dream of a free and independent state can be achieved at the table of peace - and that the terror and violence preached by Palestinian extremists is the greatest obstacle to a Palestinian state.

Third, the time is right because the world understands the urgency of supporting these negotiations. We appreciate that representatives from so many governments and international institutions have come to join us here in Annapolis - especially the Arab world. We're here because we recognize what is at stake. We are here because we each have a vital role to play in helping Palestinians forge the institutions of a free society. We're here because we understand that the success of these efforts to achieve peace between Israelis and Palestinians will have an impact far beyond the Holy Land.

These are the reasons we've gathered here in Annapolis. And now we begin the difficult work of freedom and peace. The United States is proud to host this meeting - and we reaffirm the path to peace set out in the road map. Yet in the end, the outcome of the negotiations they launch here depends on the Israelis and Palestinians themselves. America will do everything in our power to support their quest for peace, but we cannot achieve it for them. The success of these efforts will require that all parties show patience and flexibility - and meet their responsibilities.

For these negotiations to succeed, the Palestinians must do their part. They must show the world they understand that while the borders of a Palestinian state are important, the nature of a Palestinian state is just as important. They must demonstrate that a Palestinian state will create opportunity for all its citizens, and govern justly, and dismantle the infrastructure of terror. They must show that a Palestinian state will accept its responsibility, and have the capability to be a source of stability and peace - for its own citizens, for the people of Israel, and for the whole region.

The Israelis must do their part. They must show the world that they are ready to begin - to bring an end to the occupation that began in 1967 through a negotiated settlement. This settlement will establish Palestine as a Palestinian homeland, just as Israel is a homeland for the Jewish people. Israel must demonstrate its support for the creation of a prosperous and successful Palestinian state by removing unauthorized outposts, ending settlement expansion, and finding other ways for the Palestinian Authority to exercise its responsibilities without compromising Israel's security.

Arab states also have a vital role to play. Relaunching the Arab League initiative and the Arab League's support for today's conference are positive steps. All Arab states should show their strong support for the government of President Abbas - and provide needed assistance to the Palestinian Authority. Arab states should also reach out to Israel, work toward the normalization of relations, and demonstrate in both word and deed that they believe that Israel and its people have a permanent home in the Middle East. These are vital steps toward the comprehensive peace that we all seek.

Finally, the international community has important responsibilities. Prime Minister Fayyad is finalizing a plan to increase openness and transparency and accountability throughout Palestinian society - and he needs the resources and support from the international community. With strong backing from those gathered here, the Palestinian government can build the free institutions that will support a free Palestinian state.

The United States will help Palestinian leaders build these free institutions - and the United States will keep its commitment to the security of Israel as a Jewish state and homeland for the Jewish people.

The United States strongly feels that these efforts will yield the peace that we want - and that is why we will continue to support the Lebanese people. We believe democracy brings peace. And democracy in Lebanon is vital, as well, for the peace in the Middle East. Lebanese people are in the process of electing a president. That decision is for the Lebanese people to make - and they must be able to do so free from outside interference and intimidation. As they embark on this process, the people of Lebanon can know that the American people stand with them - and we look forward to the day when the people of Lebanon can enjoy the blessings of liberty without fear of violence or coercion.

The task begun here at Annapolis will be difficult. This is the beginning of the process, not the end of it - and no doubt a lot of work remains to be done. Yet the parties can approach this work with confidence. The time is right. The cause is just. And with hard effort, I know they can succeed.

President Abbas and Prime Minister Olmert, I pledge to devote my effort during my time as President to do all I can to help you achieve this ambitious goal. I give you my personal commitment to support your work with the resources and resolve of the American government. I believe a day is coming when freedom will yield the peace we desire. And the land that is holy to so many will see the light of peace.

The day is coming when Palestinians will enjoy the blessings that freedom brings - and all Israelis will enjoy the security they deserve. That day is coming. The day is coming when the terrorists and extremists who threaten the Israeli and Palestinian people will be marginalized and eventually defeated. And when that day comes, future generations will look to the work we began here at Annapolis. They will give thanks to the leaders who gathered on the banks of the Chesapeake for their vision, their wisdom and courage to choose a future of freedom and peace.

Thanks for coming. May God bless their work.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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I also agree with CJD and you.  To go a little farther, isn't it the present government of Israel blocking the rebuilding?  It would be very awkward for an American president to interfere in the internal politics of Israel.  If Israeli citizens want the temple rebuilt, which I fully support, they need to install a government willing to do that.  I think if that were done, Cruz would support Israel from the standpoint of exercising sovereignty over its own land.

Absolutely. I agree 100%.

Cruz has spoken against the peace process and he is clearly very unlikely to pressure Israel into anything but would rather let Israel exercise its sovereignty as it sees fit.  That is the best kind of US president.

Offline Nevski

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It's not up to Cruz. It's up to Israel and it's leaders.
A time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace. - Ecclesiastes 3:8

Offline edu

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If most of the people posting on this thread are correct that the most we can expect from Cruz is to be neutral, I am afraid after all the damage that the past USA governments have done to Israel coupled with Israel's internal enemies and cowards that this is not good enough.
And if so, I will have to reduce the amount of energy I have been putting into the Cruz project and certainly stop giving him advice which is the normal strategy for Jews when dealing with non-Jewish leaders (see Baba Batra, page 4).

Offline Tony Rubolotta

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If most of the people posting on this thread are correct that the most we can expect from Cruz is to be neutral, I am afraid after all the damage that the past USA governments have done to Israel coupled with Israel's internal enemies and cowards that this is not good enough.
And if so, I will have to reduce the amount of energy I have been putting into the Cruz project and certainly stop giving him advice which is the normal strategy for Jews when dealing with non-Jewish leaders (see Baba Batra, page 4).

You manage to read quite a bit into a single point, and you do it wrongly as well.  What I expect from a US President friendly to Israel is to 1) move the US Embassy to Jerusalem 2) back Israel in opposing any further phony land for peace deals 3) condemn and oppose Hamas and the PLO and any other group dedicated to the destruction of Israel 4) take out Iran's nuclear reactors 5) take a tougher line with Saudi's funding terrorism 6) restore American military integrity in the area 7) oppose and expose the hypocritical Islamic states in the UN and basically reverse every damaging act of one Barack Hussein Obama to the extent the presidential power exists under our Constitution.  The temple is a Jewish issue, not that of an American president except to support whatever decision the Jewish people make and not insinuate what that decision should be.  I think Cruz would do most if not all of the above.  Not good enough for you?

Offline edu

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reply to Tony who said
Quote
You manage to read quite a bit into a single point, and you do it wrongly as well.  What I expect from a US President friendly to Israel is to 1) move the US Embassy to Jerusalem 2) back Israel in opposing any further phony land for peace deals 3) condemn and oppose Hamas and the PLO and any other group dedicated to the destruction of Israel 4) take out Iran's nuclear reactors 5) take a tougher line with Saudi's funding terrorism 6) restore American military integrity in the area 7) oppose and expose the hypocritical Islamic states in the UN and basically reverse every damaging act of one Barack Hussein Obama to the extent the presidential power exists under our Constitution.  The temple is a Jewish issue, not that of an American president except to support whatever decision the Jewish people make and not insinuate what that decision should be.  I think Cruz would do most if not all of the above.  Not good enough for you?
I will answer with a parable.
Once upon a time there was a coward named Fred who lived in a tough neighborhood and some of his neighbors were even killed by a crime gang.
Some of the neighbors felt the best way to deal with the problem was to pay protection money and even cooperate with the gang against Fred. Fred the coward was also into paying protection money but he saw he kept being beaten up, time and time again despite his protection money.
Fred called the police, but to his dismay the police were in cahoots with the gang giving them more money, privileges, and weapons. From time to time the head of the police would change, for political reasons that had nothing to do with Fred, but the new policemen that came along despite all their promises of being different and being friends continued to allow the gang to beat up Fred.
This went on for 24 years.
One day a new chief of police comes to power, promising "this time" the police will no longer side with the gang, but instead will remain really neutral towards the gang. This Chief of Police might even give tickets to the gang for Jay-Walking. How much confidence do you think Fred the coward is going to have, to act differently than he's done for the past 24 years?
Meaning of the parable: Fred the coward is the phoney right wing governments of Israel. The neighbors collaborating with the gang is Israel's left. The gang are the Arab Nazis both religious and secular.
The corrupt police are all the past USA governments for at least 24 years if not much more.
The neutral new police chief who might give the gang tickets for Jay-Walking is Ted Cruz. He is saying more or less what George W. Bush was saying before he got elected.
Cruz needs to do something to prove, he is not just a new version of Bush.

Offline Tony Rubolotta

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Nonsense!

Offline Israel Chai

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Cruz needs to do something to prove, he is not just a new version of Bush.

I disagree strongly. If you had replaced Cruz with Trump, you'd be spot on the money.

As for Cruz, he fought Bush while he was working for him, he's the ultimate anti-establishment candidate, whereas Bush was establishment to the point of being best freinds with the Saudis.

Bush never did anything significant for Israel before the election, Cruz has already stopped an economic boycott of Israel, and turned down support from an Arab non-muslim group for anti-Israel sentiment.

I'd say if you need that proven to you, you aren't following what both candidates do and say very closely.
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