sure enough, my rabbi talked abou homosexuality and Brittany Spears

[Dr. Dan]

on Yom Kippur and Kol Nidre.  The sermon about Brittany Spears actually had a good point to it...the other one, horrified me...for the very reason I'm strongly learning against leaving the "conserved" movement and encouraging my parents to leave that temple all together unless a different better and rational rabbi takes over...for some reason i doubt that will happen.  It's the movement all together which has broken the last straw.

Here's the dillema. Orthodox synogogues are too intense for me, no offense to anyone.  I'm just not at that level...maybe I will be one day...but the way my opinions are today, I just wouldn't be able to completely accept everything without kicking and screaming about every other rule.

And since I'm a little bit both "observant" and "secular" and prefer this mode, can anyone in my boat suggest a temple that is not so liberal and with good conservative/Torah Jewish values in the northern NJ area? 

[newman]

That's a good question to put to Chaim. He knows the what-fors of every synagogue in NYC.

[Yisrael]

Maybe you can find a "Conservadox" Synagogue.

[newman]

Stop mucking around with it, Danny. Don't be half a Jew. Get a black hat and some earlocks and get with it.

[Dr. Dan]

That's a good question to put to Chaim. He knows the what-fors of every synagogue in NYC.

here's the deal, he will divert me to an Orthodox synogogue because there will be no other one to go to otherwise.  And because i'm sephardic most people will say go to a sephardic synogogue.

anyway, it doesn't matter right now...I'm going ot have to have a little talk with my rabbi about what he said..

[Dr. Dan]

Stop mucking around with it, Danny. Don't be half a Jew. Get a black hat and some earlocks and get with it.

OY oy oy oy oy oy..Moshiach moshiach  oy oyo yoy oyo moshiach moshiach.....   

[Dexter]

Stop mucking around with it, Danny. Don't be half a Jew. Get a black hat and some earlocks and get with it.

OY oy oy oy oy oy..Moshiach moshiach  oy oyo yoy oyo moshiach moshiach.....   

Actually in Israel they say :
Mashiach Mashich Mashichhhhh Aya yay aya yay ay Mashiach Mashich Mashichhhhh .

[judeanoncapta]

Conservative Judaism just goes with the flow of pop culture.

Whatever the "world" thinks is acceptable, so do they.

I know it makes you sick but what do you expect from people who don't REALLY beleive in the Torah?

[Dexter]

Conservative Judaism just goes with the flow of pop culture.

Whatever the "world" thinks is acceptable, so do they.

I know it makes you sick but what do you expect from people who don't REALLY beleive in the Torah?

You mean that people that don't believe in the Torah are...?

[judeanoncapta]

going to define morality according to the changing mores of western pop culture.

[newman]

going to define morality according to the changing mores of western pop culture.

JNC is right in his criticism. Torah DOES NOT change with the times. Torah CHANGES the times.

[kahaneloyalist]

Danny, why dont you try a Chabad shul? They are generally very tolerant of the non-observant while at the same time being Torah observant themselves. They wont demand you do anything or try to force you to become observant.

[judeanoncapta]

Newman, Did you ever hear Berel Wein's descending elevator story?

[Dexter]

Danny, why dont you try a Chabad shul? They are generally very tolerant of the non-observant while at the same time being Torah observant themselves. They wont demand you do anything or try to force you to become observant.

Chabad in my city are very nice, but I afraid to walk near their shul (my freind's house is near their shul) because their Rebbi can jump on me with tfilin 

[Dr. Dan]

Conservative Judaism just goes with the flow of pop culture.

Whatever the "world" thinks is acceptable, so do they.

I know it makes you sick but what do you expect from people who don't REALLY beleive in the Torah?

many of them believe in the torah like muhammed believed in the torah...reject what is inconvenient and accept what is convenient.  to me, the conservative movement only does good when it comes to outreach but harms jusaism when they say they have it perfectly right.

i believe many jews in this movement are well meaning jews but w the wrong priorities in mind...

[judeanoncapta]

Rabbi Wein had just finished visiting a patient in the hospital who was one of his congregants.

He walked to the elevators and pressed the down button. Out of the corner of his eye, he saw a priest, obviously visiting someone as well, press the button at the exact same time.

He looked at the priest and smiled and the priest smiled back with the knowledge of what was going on here.

The were a few people who witnessed the simultaneous button pressing who stared aghast at the two clergymen as if today the 2000 year old argument would be settled.

Which clergyman could summon the descending elevator?

The hallway was tense with anticipation when suddenly the elevator opened on the Rabbi's side.

He smiled at the priest and went into the elevator inviting the bystanders and the Priest to join him.

The Priest paused in thought for a moment and then smiled and said "Hey Rabbi, what would you have said if the elevator had come on my side first?"

Rabbi Wein replied, "Father, one does not bring proof from a descending elevator."

He later realized the profoundness of his statement.

Western pop culture IS a descending elevator.

The were nonreligious people in the 50's 60's 70's and 80's and yet they didn't pester religious people about how terrible they are for not accepting gays. Because they didn't accept gays. They were on a higher floor but now they've descended and can't stop talking about the need to accept gays. When they see what the Bible says should be done to gays, they are horrified and say,"I can't believe that God feels this way about gays."

They're bringing proof from western pop culture, a descending elevator.

That's my point.  If Western pop culture is your compass, you will allways be heading South.

[newman]

Newman, Did you ever hear Berel Wein's descending elevator story?

No. I got that bit about changing the times from Rabbi Blech.

Thanks for posting it.

[Dr. Dan]

Danny, why dont you try a Chabad shul? They are generally very tolerant of the non-observant while at the same time being Torah observant themselves. They wont demand you do anything or try to force you to become observant.

no chabad shuls for me, thanks.  I think i may lean towards the JEC or a sephardic synogogue or a politically conservative synogogue that isn't so religiously intense..

personally as a disclaimer, i don't care who is gay or even if a rabbi were gay. My problem is the openly gay rabbi just as if i had a rabbi that openly admitted that he masturbated on a daily basis. Or a Rabbi that doesn't rebuke homosexulaity or pornography or masturbation.

In addition, by someone saying, "hey, i'm gay" he is telling me more than just that. I don't go walking around telling everyone what i do in the privacy of my bedroom...so it's completely inappropriate to even bring it in a public situation and in a holy place.  That's what [censored] me off about my rabbi...so inappropriate to talk about crap like that on the holiest day of the year!

[Shoshana]

I whole heartedly recommend Chabad.

[OdKahaneChai]

And since I'm a little bit both "observant" and "secular" and prefer this mode, can anyone in my boat suggest a temple that is not so liberal and with good conservative/Torah Jewish values in the northern NJ area? 

There's no such thing.  Just go to an Orthodox Shul.  You will not find Torah values anywhere else.

[Dr. Dan]

What did he say about Britney Spears? What did he say about the fags?

Well he started out good on Kol Nidre that one of the sins not mentioned is realizing one's own shame...and then it went into Briteny Spears messing around and not showing any shame for the things that she does..the same goes wtih every other holywood low life.

With the homosexual thing...the conservative movement has decided to cannonize openly gay men as rabbis...

and so he want on to say we shoudln't turn away Jews..we shoudl accept them (as if Orthodox Jews turned away men who were admittedly homosexual which is absolutely false!!!)  and he went off on a tangent how the hebrew for abomination can also mean to be lead astray..etc etc.  and that he woudl be glad to marry two jewish men and allow them to adopt children etc etc... just went off on the whole thing...

First point: completely inappropriate to bring up politics or anything firey/controversial especially stuff about homosexuality on the holiest day of the year..  Secondly, more specificially, homosexuality is a sin like masturbation is a sin....when someone is openly homosexual, they are saying more than just that..it is COMPLETELY inappropriate for man who is teaching the holiness of the Torah to come and be open homosexual...no no no no no no no no....

If homosexuality is someothing someone is born with and it is something that they cannot control, it's still not right to go out in public about it especially in these situations...

Secondly, Jewish homosexuals should NOT be turned away if they come to confide to their rabbis..but at the same time, rabbis shouldn't just say, "oh it's ok to be gay...duh...."  The proper thing to start with, "well, we love you, but doing things like that is inappropriate; it's not nice. You're not supposed to do that."

My opinion is that homosexuality is an abomination like lighting fire on the sabbath like spilling thy seed on thy ground, like lashon hara...etc...All are bad sins...and we all sin purposely and by accident...And because we are human, we will sin everyday of our lives no matter how we try to think...On that note, a homosexual if born that way, shouldn't be hated nor turned down if he wishes to worship. However, a sin is a sin...and sins should be rebuked..not accepted as ok...don't worry..you are as good as the rest blah blah blah...

[Dr. Dan]

And since I'm a little bit both "observant" and "secular" and prefer this mode, can anyone in my boat suggest a temple that is not so liberal and with good conservative/Torah Jewish values in the northern NJ area? 

There's no such thing.  Just go to an Orthodox Shul.  You will not find Torah values anywhere else.

I guess i'm going ot have to stick with the "conservative" temples....I refuse to go anywhere that I can't sit with my mother or sister-in-laws or other women...It's fine if other's rather go to synogogues that separate the two..i prefer not to...

[Daniel]

A rabbi talking about Brittney Spears??? My response to him would be like that crazy girl/guy on youtube, "LEAVE BRITTNEY ALONE!!!" and not so much because she is a human, but because she's not.

[Dr. Dan]

A rabbi talking about Brittney Spears??? My response to him would be like that crazy girl/guy on youtube, "LEAVE BRITTNEY ALONE!!!" and not so much because she is a human, but because she's not.

it wasn't a big deal actually...it was taking an example that everyone in teh congregation can understand as someone who shows no shame when he/she does shameful acts...so it was a pretty good sermon.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

danny your Sefardi I highly recomend you going to a Sefardi shul- I love the way we pray together and the tunes, etc. In my shul the Rabbi didnt make any sermens- their was prayer the whole time and had only 2 hours break between Shaharit and Minha. -The Rabbi did translate some parts of the confessions of sins that we make and also told people that he wishes that the shul in packed everyday like it was on Yom Kippur, he said please come in on Shabb-h and those who regularly come on Shabb-h to come in everyday.