Croatian Bad Blue Boy beats up rebellious wife

[Hrvatski Noahid]

https://youtu.be/pnEEe7cBKP0

I'm not saying it's nice. Just presenting the facts.

[Dan Ben Noah]

The words "Croatian" and "Bad" just naturally go together.

[Hrvatski Noahid]

The words "Croatian" and "Bad" just naturally go together.

Poor Dan realized he will never be as right-wing as Slavs. No wonder he is angry.

[Dan Ben Noah]

Nazism is actually left wing, and correct I will never be like the Slavs.

[Dovid_2]

Poor Dan realized he will never be as right-wing as Slavs. No wonder he is angry.

The Slavs from the FSU aren't "right wing", they're just enacting what they believe to be right wing which is really just a cliché, and in fact manifests in psychopathic egotism.  It's the diametric opposite of pathological altruism.  So if in Communist Russia, everything was aggressively collectivist, in their minds, the opposite of that is a society in which everything is aggressively the opposite of collectivist, and that just manifests as balding middle-aged Slavic men in cheap track suits in your North American city, who walk around with their gold necklace smoking a cigarette yelling into their cell phone, and then drive off in their rented luxury car.  These people would sell their own mother for a dollar, and they have absolutely no inkling of the ideas of classical western liberalism, much less real free market economics.  They are brutes and savages who should be sent back to Russia.

[Hrvatski Noahid]

The Slavs from the FSU aren't "right wing", they're just enacting what they believe to be right wing which is really just a cliché, and in fact manifests in psychopathic egotism.  It's the diametric opposite of pathological altruism.  So if in Communist Russia, everything was aggressively collectivist, in their minds, the opposite of that is a society in which everything is aggressively the opposite of collectivist, and that just manifests as balding middle-aged Slavic men in cheap track suits in your North American city, who walk around with their gold necklace smoking a cigarette yelling into their cell phone, and then drive off in their rented luxury car.  These people would sell their own mother for a dollar, and they have absolutely no inkling of the ideas of classical western liberalism, much less real free market economics.  They are brutes and savages who should be sent back to Russia.

Free market economics includes private abortion clinics and private porn industries.

[Dovid_2]

Free market economics includes private abortion clinics and private porn industries.

You just proved my point.  You are a slav with the mistaken notion that the opposite of Russia's collectivism is psychopathic egotism (read: the mistaken notion that anything that can be commoditized should be commoditized).

Free market economics is not that at all, and it existed in and was congruous with societies that prohibited abortion and pornography well before they became prevalent.

[Hrvatski Noahid]

You just proved my point.  You are a slav with the mistaken notion that the opposite of Russia's collectivism is psychopathic egotism (read: the mistaken notion that anything that can be commoditized should be commoditized).

Free market economics is not that at all, and it existed in and was congruous with societies that prohibited abortion and pornography well before they became prevalent.

I am a Slav with an American secondary and post-secondary education. I know all the western arguments for free market economics and I am not convinced.

[Dan Ben Noah]

If you are against a free market you are not right wing.  Beating your wife is not what makes you a right winger.  Basically if someone is a half-way decent person, they will be more right wing than the Slavs.  And it's a stupid argument to say free markets include abortion clinics and porn, because that's like saying a free market includes private hitmen.  All you need is laws against abortion, porn, and hitmen, and you won't have those problems in a free market.

[Hrvatski Noahid]

If you are against a free market you are not right wing.  Beating your wife is not what makes you a right winger.  Basically if someone is a half-way decent person, they will be more right wing than the Slavs.  And it's a stupid argument to say free markets include abortion clinics and porn, because that's like saying a free market includes private hitmen.  All you need is laws against abortion, porn, and hitmen, and you won't have those problems in a free market.

Gentiles have no obligation to believe in the free market.

[Dan Ben Noah]

My argument is that someone is not right wing if they are against a free market.  You are claiming that Slavs are right wing, and their political support for Nazism and socialism shows otherwise.  That being said, the Noahide laws prohibit theft and assume that people have the ability to own things and property, which is only possible with a free market.

[Hrvatski Noahid]

My argument is that someone is not right wing if they are against a free market.  You are claiming that Slavs are right wing, and their political support for Nazism and socialism shows otherwise.  That being said, the Noahide laws prohibit theft and assume that people have the ability to own things and property, which is only possible with a free market.

You overestimate the importance of your argument. A Gentile government has the right to set the value of items.

[Dovid_2]

You overestimate the importance of your argument. A Gentile government has the right to set the value of items.

That kind of dictatorship has no precedent in natural law...  You're inventing your own natural law and applying nonexistent biblical support for it and calling it Noahidism.  I believe the cadence of the law in the Torah is congruous with the natural law of post-renaissance governments.  Is that kind of dictatorship explicitly forbidden?  No.  But as Zachary Strong states in Ticket To Heaven, courts are establishments of fact or truth finding.  How can a court in a dictatorship define what is true when its truth depends on what the dictator says is true?

There are circumstances in Judaism where a king can arbitrarily bypass courts, but I sincerely doubt that a Jewish king would defy the Jewish commandment to institute courts and that that king would be looked upon as righteous.  I would argue that the kind of absolute dictatorship you're proposing would violate the law of establishing fair courts of justice.

That said, I am not strictly opposed in any way to monarchies that have theoretical absolute power.  In fact, the Messiah will be a king with absolute power.  But I doubt he's going to dictate the value of products to the corporations that produce them.  There is already a plethora of Rabbinic law that discusses fair pricing and the prohibition of overcharging.

[Hrvatski Noahid]

You're inventing your own natural law and applying nonexistent biblical support for it and calling it Noahidism.

No you idiots, I am citing the Divine Code by Rabbi Weiner, 2nd edition, p 642.

A Gentile government absolutely has the right to set the value of items. If it wants to create a free economy, it can, but there is no obligation to do so, which refutes the "only possible with a free market" idiotic nonsense.

[Dovid_2]

No you idiots, I am citing the Divine Code by Rabbi Weiner, 2nd edition, p 642.

A Gentile government absolutely has the right to set the value of items. If it wants to create a free economy, it can, but there is no obligation to do so, which refutes the "only possible with a free market" idiotic nonsense.

I don't need an expensive english interpretation of Rabbi Weiner's book to teach me what is already explicitly stated by the Rambam, whose works I already possess in their original Hebrew:

Mishneh Torah, Kings and Wars 9:14
What must they do to fulfill their requirement regarding the Law of Justice? They have to set up magistrates and judges in each district to judge the people with regard to these Six Commandments; and they must issue warnings (about them) to the people. A non-Jew who violates one of the Seven Commandments is executed by means of the sword. How is this so? Anyone who worships idols or blasphemed or murdered or had sexual relations with one of those forbidden to him or stole even less than the value of a Prutah or ate any amount from a limb or the flesh of a live animal or saw someone else violate one of these and failed to judge and execute him, is himself executed by means of the sword. It was for this reason all residents of the City of Shechem deserved to be executed. For Shechem kidnapped, and they saw and knew and failed to judge him. A non-Jew is executed by the testimony of one, and with one judge, without forewarning, and by the testimony of relatives, but not by the testimony of a woman. A woman may not judge for them.

The type of government you propose that steals from its people is prohibited by the commandments.

[Hrvatski Noahid]

The type of government you propose that steals from its people is prohibited by the commandments.

The Sages established that the cheating that the Torah forbids in buying and selling is set at a sixth or more of a total set value of the sold object. If the object is sold at the actual set value, there is no stealing.   

[Dovid_2]

The Sages established that the cheating that the Torah forbids in buying and selling is set at a sixth or more of a total set value of the sold object. If the object is sold at the actual set value, there is no stealing.

Listen, I downloaded the book for free, I found this:

Chapter 16, Paragraph 13

One is obligated to be extremely careful regarding the
prohibition of theft, as there are many details, and the nature of a
person is to covet the money of others, so his evil inclination tricks
him with various excuses for why it is permissible.

Therefore, one should make extra effort to be careful about this
prohibition, and he should learn and know its details very well, in
order not to transgress it even by mistake. It has already been
explained in Part I, “Fundamentals of the Faith,” Chapter 4, that one
who transgresses a Noahide commandment because he was
negligent and did not learn, and therefore thought that it was
permitted, is liable to punishment, for he was obligated to learn and
know what he is prohibited from doing.

Likewise, a person is obligated to contemplate and judge the
actions he is doing, in order that he not fall mistakenly into theft, as
this is likely to occur when one is not being careful.

Now tell me please which chapter and paragraph you were quoting from the book.  "Page 612" is ambiguous, because the PDF edition is different, but the chapter and paragraphs should be similar enough.

[Hrvatski Noahid]

Now tell me please which chapter and paragraph you were quoting from the book.  "Page 612" is ambiguous, because the PDF edition is different, but the chapter and paragraphs should be similar enough.

If you bought a PDF edition, you can read the ruling using the find option:

"A set value (or set price) is usually one that is set by the government or local authorities." 

[Dovid_2]

If you bought a PDF edition, you can read the ruling using the find option:

"A set value (or set price) is usually one that is set by the government or local authorities."

You are quoting footnote 1695 which refers to Chapter 5 Paragraph 10:

"A set value (or set price) is usually one that is set by the government or local
authorities. Regarding items that do not have a set value, which applies in most
cases for free economies, see topic 14 below."

The actual paragraph states:

The Sages established that the cheating that the Torah forbids in
buying and selling is set at a sixth or more of a total set value of the
sold object,[1695] such as selling an object whose set value is $6 for
$7, since it is the way of the world to tolerate up to one-sixth extra as
the cost of dealing with merchandise, and not as theft.[1696]

What happens if the dictatorship sets prices below the actual value?  That is a form of theft as well (from the labourers).  Your inference therefore is asinine.

[Hrvatski Noahid]

What happens if the dictatorship sets prices below the actual value?  That is a form of theft as well (from the labourers).  Your inference therefore is asinine.

The actual value is the one the government sets. Instead of calling me a Nazi rat, do your homework and leave me the hell alone.

[Dovid_2]

The actual value is the one the government sets. Instead of calling me a Nazi rat, do your homework and leave me the hell alone.

I am not the pogromist here.  In the future, I will not debate you unless you post quotes in the original Hebrew from Rabbi Weiner's original works, which he wrote in Hebrew.

The English translation of the original Hebrew was intended as a gesture of good faith to Gentiles, and was not meant to be used as a battering ram for keyboard warriors who post their own ideas on forums and incorrectly reference those ideas back to the book.  This is not scholarship of any sort.  Real Noahides learn Hebrew, they don't spend their time trying to convince others that facism (which Mussolini referred to as the ...'merger of corporation and state') is good and that the free market is not.

[Hrvatski Noahid]

The English translation of the original Hebrew was intended as a gesture of good faith to Gentiles.

No, the Divine Code says a Gentile is permitted to learn from books in a language he understands. I will not give you the source again just because you are too stupid and ignorant to know this.

[Dovid_2]

No, the Divine Code says a Gentile is permitted to learn from books in a language he understands. I will not give you the source again just because you are too stupid and ignorant to know this.

You're aware that I can search PDF documents, right?  You're quoting from Chapter 5, "Torah Study for Gentiles", paragraph 2:

"But for Jewish commandments of the Torah that he is allowed but
not obligated to observe (see Chapter 3), he is allowed to learn
about them for the sake of understanding them, whether from the
text of the Written Torah or the Oral Torah, but not in a way of indepth
learning or penetrating investigative learning (i.e. pilpul, which
is the Jewish style of learning Talmud). Rather, a Gentile is permitted
to learn them from books in a language he understands, on topics
that are written in a concise and clear way. An example would be a
proper translation of the text of the Mishneh Torah by Rambam,
which presents Torah-law decisions, but not the inner reasons or the
details of how the derived rulings were decided by the Sages
(including Rambam himself).[144]"

You're not simply using this provisio to learn for yourself, but you have expanded upon it to try to teach others wild, crazy things!  Again, -- if you want to start drawing your own inferences from the Halachot, I am going to demand the original Hebrew source, where I can properly look up the references Rabbi Weiner provides in their original language.  You keep boasting about how Tovia Singer the Indonesian Rabbi lauds you as some savant of Noahidism because he lets you moderate his live show...  Well, why don't you practice what he constantly preaches about original sources?  Could it be that you're afraid of the truth?

Now off with you...  The insults ("leave me alone!", "idiots") I could swallow.  The argumentum ad nauseam however is a different story.  I also donate to the Hilltop Youth, and I have to work to make a living so that I can donate, and this has already wasted way too much of my precious time.  Be gone!

[Hrvatski Noahid]

You're aware that I can search PDF documents, right?  You're quoting from Chapter 5, "Torah Study for Gentiles", paragraph 2:

"But for Jewish commandments of the Torah that he is allowed but
not obligated to observe (see Chapter 3), he is allowed to learn
about them for the sake of understanding them, whether from the
text of the Written Torah or the Oral Torah, but not in a way of indepth
learning or penetrating investigative learning (i.e. pilpul, which
is the Jewish style of learning Talmud). Rather, a Gentile is permitted
to learn them from books in a language he understands, on topics
that are written in a concise and clear way. An example would be a
proper translation of the text of the Mishneh Torah by Rambam,
which presents Torah-law decisions, but not the inner reasons or the
details of how the derived rulings were decided by the Sages
(including Rambam himself).[144]"

You're not simply using this provisio to learn for yourself, but you have expanded upon it to try to teach others wild, crazy things!  Again, -- if you want to start drawing your own inferences from the Halachot, I am going to demand the original Hebrew source, where I can properly look up the references Rabbi Weiner provides in their original language.  You keep boasting about how Tovia Singer the Indonesian Rabbi lauds you as some savant of Noahidism because he lets you moderate his live show...  Well, why don't you practice what he constantly preaches about original sources?  Could it be that you're afraid of the truth?

Now off with you...  The insults ("leave me alone!", "idiots") I could swallow.  The argumentum ad nauseam however is a different story.  I also donate to the Hilltop Youth, and I have to work to make a living so that I can donate, and this has already wasted way too much of my precious time.  Be gone!

"A set value (or set price) is usually one that is set by the government or local authorities." Hrvatski Noahid did not write this.

You and your buddy called me a Nazi rat and got a valid rebuke. Now go away.

[Dovid_2]

"He who says, "What is mine is mine and what is yours is yours"--this is the common type, though some say that this is the type of Sodom."

-Mishna Avot, 5:13