Poll

If it was a life and death matter and you had to choose between eating nonkosher and Hallal, which would you choose?

Halal all the way, man!
6 (28.6%)
Nonkosher...Halal is poison
4 (19%)
Makes no difference, both are unkosher.
8 (38.1%)
I would rather DIE DIE DIE!!!
1 (4.8%)
Can bacon be considered halal?
2 (9.5%)
choices A and C
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 0

Author Topic: For those of you who are Kosher  (Read 22016 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3006
Re: For those of you who are Kosher
« Reply #75 on: November 24, 2007, 07:04:34 PM »
Why in the world woudl anyone want to convert to a religion where the people have been hated throughout time and persecuted like forever?!

The implication being that it is PERFECTLY REASONABLE why Jews would want to abandon Judaism, right?!

I hate this kind of intelligence-insulting "bum's rush"!

Judaism is biblical TRUTH!  That's why!

Sometimes Jews talk like agents of the goyim!

Hey Uzi, if you follow up with my answer to my I stay Jewish you'll understand.  I was also play devil's advocate.

but let me give you real situation.  The school yard.  You have "the crowd"...and then you have the loner outcast group of kids.  If most kids can choose one, almost all of them will choose the "cool" crowd under the condition they lose all individualism and the right to be independent from the crowd.  On the other hand the loner crowd gives the benefits of being indpendent individual achievers..set apart from the rest.  In fact an underdog when the "crowd" decides to be rambunctious to that person...but when that underdog overcomes the insults and becomes one of the tops, he/she is blessed by most if not all people who confront him.. He/she is liked by everyone...When he does good for society, it is noticed 10 fold more than a team or corporation of people.

So I liken Jews and Judaism and Israel as that loner kid..and the rest of the world as "the crowd". 

To a smaller scale, JTF is the loner kid to the Jewish world.  We will overcome the adversity of the leftist secular crowd.

I hear you, but thats not a good answer of why we (Jews) should follow Judaism- G-d's laws. Think about it, lets say Jews were the dominent ones would that make a difference to the truth. I strive in following G-d's laws becuase its the truth that G-d has given. Judaism encourages and actually commands a Jew to learn its laws and learn why it can only be divine (threw investigating it over and over again you will see that it can only be divine and NOTHING in the world comes close to the Torah).
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Kiwi

  • Guest
Re: For those of you who are Kosher
« Reply #76 on: November 24, 2007, 07:12:05 PM »
I would eat anything to stay alive.

Really? would you eat people?

If thats a yes, remind me never to be locked in a prison with you.  ^-^

Offline judeanoncapta

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2080
  • Rebuild it now!!!!
Re: For those of you who are Kosher
« Reply #77 on: November 24, 2007, 07:41:16 PM »
Why in the world woudl anyone want to convert to a religion where the people have been hated throughout time and persecuted like forever?!

The implication being that it is PERFECTLY REASONABLE why Jews would want to abandon Judaism, right?!

I hate this kind of intelligence-insulting "bum's rush"!

Judaism is biblical TRUTH!  That's why!

Sometimes Jews talk like agents of the goyim!

Interesting analysis.

I'm pretty sure that the discouragement should be to let the potential convert know how all encompassing the laws of the Torah are so te person knows what they are in for and if they can handle keeping the Torah.
Post questions here for the ASK JUDEA TORAH SHOW


my blog: Yehudi-Nation






Who is truly wise? He who can see the future. I see tommorow today and I want to end it - Rabbi Meir Daweedh Kahana

Offline Dr. Dan

  • Forum Administrator
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12584
Re: For those of you who are Kosher
« Reply #78 on: November 24, 2007, 08:10:03 PM »
Why in the world woudl anyone want to convert to a religion where the people have been hated throughout time and persecuted like forever?!

The implication being that it is PERFECTLY REASONABLE why Jews would want to abandon Judaism, right?!

I hate this kind of intelligence-insulting "bum's rush"!

Judaism is biblical TRUTH!  That's why!

Sometimes Jews talk like agents of the goyim!

Hey Uzi, if you follow up with my answer to my I stay Jewish you'll understand.  I was also play devil's advocate.

but let me give you real situation.  The school yard.  You have "the crowd"...and then you have the loner outcast group of kids.  If most kids can choose one, almost all of them will choose the "cool" crowd under the condition they lose all individualism and the right to be independent from the crowd.  On the other hand the loner crowd gives the benefits of being indpendent individual achievers..set apart from the rest.  In fact an underdog when the "crowd" decides to be rambunctious to that person...but when that underdog overcomes the insults and becomes one of the tops, he/she is blessed by most if not all people who confront him.. He/she is liked by everyone...When he does good for society, it is noticed 10 fold more than a team or corporation of people.

So I liken Jews and Judaism and Israel as that loner kid..and the rest of the world as "the crowd". 

To a smaller scale, JTF is the loner kid to the Jewish world.  We will overcome the adversity of the leftist secular crowd.

I hear you, but thats not a good answer of why we (Jews) should follow Judaism- G-d's laws. Think about it, lets say Jews were the dominent ones would that make a difference to the truth. I strive in following G-d's laws becuase its the truth that G-d has given. Judaism encourages and actually commands a Jew to learn its laws and learn why it can only be divine (threw investigating it over and over again you will see that it can only be divine and NOTHING in the world comes close to the Torah).

It's an interesting point which you mention. What if Judaism were the majority?

I'll answer that Judaism will never become the majority because Gd never intended on Israel being the majority. But on the other hand, that the poopulation of the nations be based on the nation of Israel.
Secondly, Judaism isn't a way of life that is easy to follow whether it is rabbinical like the way you follow it, or less like the way the rest of us follow up..not saying my way is the right way..and that's the point of this.  It's not easy to be human and practicing Judaism...even from the time of birth. therefore, I dont' think it is possible for Judaism to be the majority.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3006
Re: For those of you who are Kosher
« Reply #79 on: November 24, 2007, 08:33:27 PM »
"it is rabbinical like the way you follow it, or less like the way the rest of us follow up..not saying my way is the right way..and that's the point of this. "

 I dont belive that their many besides you and 1 more guy (mabe a few more- dont know) who reject the oral Law. I gave you sources before to check out, and you never get back to me. Is it hard? YES, bu lets not deny the truth and try making it false in order to make it easier for ourselves. Check into the Religion you claim to follow, and follow it correctly. Dont make excuses in order to modify your personal needs and desires. (WE all sin, yes, but the TRUTH is the TRUTH and we have to strive VERY HARD to follow it).
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline Dominater96

  • Senior JTFer
  • ****
  • Posts: 477
Re: For those of you who are Kosher
« Reply #80 on: November 24, 2007, 09:04:07 PM »
I would eat anything to stay alive.

Really? would you eat people?

If thats a yes, remind me never to be locked in a prison with you.  ^-^
[/quote You never know until the situation happens.  Lol I dont know if I can resort to that.

Kiwi

  • Guest
Re: For those of you who are Kosher
« Reply #81 on: November 24, 2007, 09:10:12 PM »
I would eat anything to stay alive.

Really? would you eat people?

If thats a yes, remind me never to be locked in a prison with you.  ^-^
[/quote You never know until the situation happens.  Lol I dont know if I can resort to that.

 :::D I don't think it would be Kosher

Offline Sarah

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3341
Re: For those of you who are Kosher
« Reply #82 on: November 26, 2007, 02:53:07 PM »
If you're starving or there isn't any Kosher food to eat then eat anything edible. God created the food in this world for humans to survive not die.


Soon the world is going to start having problems in feeding the on growing populations.

Offline Dr. Dan

  • Forum Administrator
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12584
Re: For those of you who are Kosher
« Reply #83 on: November 26, 2007, 04:13:27 PM »
"it is rabbinical like the way you follow it, or less like the way the rest of us follow up..not saying my way is the right way..and that's the point of this. "

 I dont belive that their many besides you and 1 more guy (mabe a few more- dont know) who reject the oral Law. I gave you sources before to check out, and you never get back to me. Is it hard? YES, bu lets not deny the truth and try making it false in order to make it easier for ourselves. Check into the Religion you claim to follow, and follow it correctly. Dont make excuses in order to modify your personal needs and desires. (WE all sin, yes, but the TRUTH is the TRUTH and we have to strive VERY HARD to follow it).


I don't reject any law...I have lots of questions...and certain things i disagree with, but that doesn't make me correct when I disagree with something..it means i have to figure it out and understand it...then the next step is choosing to follow that oral law or the fence that is built around the written law.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Kiwi

  • Guest
Re: For those of you who are Kosher
« Reply #84 on: November 26, 2007, 08:43:17 PM »
If you're starving or there isn't any Kosher food to eat then eat anything edible. G-d created the food in this world for humans to survive not die.


Soon the world is going to start having problems in feeding the on growing populations.

No you wouldn't, many will not eat anything that is not kosher. I would prefer to die than eat human or anything else that goes against my beliefs. After the first 7 days your stop feeling hungry anyway. No big deal.

One of the things you learn in the military is at times you might only have one meal a week. Great diet I can tell you. But you learn to control your body. Exactly the same as many prisoners.

The human body is an amazing machine.

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3006
Re: For those of you who are Kosher
« Reply #85 on: November 26, 2007, 09:00:19 PM »
"it is rabbinical like the way you follow it, or less like the way the rest of us follow up..not saying my way is the right way..and that's the point of this. "

 I dont belive that their many besides you and 1 more guy (mabe a few more- dont know) who reject the oral Law. I gave you sources before to check out, and you never get back to me. Is it hard? YES, bu lets not deny the truth and try making it false in order to make it easier for ourselves. Check into the Religion you claim to follow, and follow it correctly. Dont make excuses in order to modify your personal needs and desires. (WE all sin, yes, but the TRUTH is the TRUTH and we have to strive VERY HARD to follow it).


I don't reject any law...I have lots of questions...and certain things i disagree with, but that doesn't make me correct when I disagree with something..it means i have to figure it out and understand it...then the next step is choosing to follow that oral law or the fence that is built around the written law.

Okay, at least the first step go and keep Shabb-t - its Diorita- not Rabbinic.
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline Dr. Dan

  • Forum Administrator
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12584
Re: For those of you who are Kosher
« Reply #86 on: November 26, 2007, 09:12:38 PM »
"it is rabbinical like the way you follow it, or less like the way the rest of us follow up..not saying my way is the right way..and that's the point of this. "

 I dont belive that their many besides you and 1 more guy (mabe a few more- dont know) who reject the oral Law. I gave you sources before to check out, and you never get back to me. Is it hard? YES, bu lets not deny the truth and try making it false in order to make it easier for ourselves. Check into the Religion you claim to follow, and follow it correctly. Dont make excuses in order to modify your personal needs and desires. (WE all sin, yes, but the TRUTH is the TRUTH and we have to strive VERY HARD to follow it).


I don't reject any law...I have lots of questions...and certain things i disagree with, but that doesn't make me correct when I disagree with something..it means i have to figure it out and understand it...then the next step is choosing to follow that oral law or the fence that is built around the written law.

Okay, at least the first step go and keep Shabbat - its Diorita- not Rabbinic.

there you go again with Shabbat...Listen, i think about it every Saturday...the first thing i start with is a mind at ease...most of the time, I don't leave my apartment the full day..eventhough i will do what I do at home... I'm not trying to get approval from anyone, but to be strictly shomer shabbat is not somethign i want to do right now.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3006
Re: For those of you who are Kosher
« Reply #87 on: November 26, 2007, 09:30:16 PM »
"it is rabbinical like the way you follow it, or less like the way the rest of us follow up..not saying my way is the right way..and that's the point of this. "

 I dont belive that their many besides you and 1 more guy (mabe a few more- dont know) who reject the oral Law. I gave you sources before to check out, and you never get back to me. Is it hard? YES, bu lets not deny the truth and try making it false in order to make it easier for ourselves. Check into the Religion you claim to follow, and follow it correctly. Dont make excuses in order to modify your personal needs and desires. (WE all sin, yes, but the TRUTH is the TRUTH and we have to strive VERY HARD to follow it).


I don't reject any law...I have lots of questions...and certain things i disagree with, but that doesn't make me correct when I disagree with something..it means i have to figure it out and understand it...then the next step is choosing to follow that oral law or the fence that is built around the written law.

Okay, at least the first step go and keep Shabbat - its Diorita- not Rabbinic.

there you go again with Shabbat...Listen, i think about it every Saturday...the first thing i start with is a mind at ease...most of the time, I don't leave my apartment the full day..eventhough i will do what I do at home... I'm not trying to get approval from anyone, but to be strictly shomer shabbat is not somethign i want to do right now.

I forgot, but you live in Roslyn or Great neck right? (not far from Queens?)
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline Dr. Dan

  • Forum Administrator
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12584
Re: For those of you who are Kosher
« Reply #88 on: November 26, 2007, 10:20:18 PM »
"it is rabbinical like the way you follow it, or less like the way the rest of us follow up..not saying my way is the right way..and that's the point of this. "

 I dont belive that their many besides you and 1 more guy (mabe a few more- dont know) who reject the oral Law. I gave you sources before to check out, and you never get back to me. Is it hard? YES, bu lets not deny the truth and try making it false in order to make it easier for ourselves. Check into the Religion you claim to follow, and follow it correctly. Dont make excuses in order to modify your personal needs and desires. (WE all sin, yes, but the TRUTH is the TRUTH and we have to strive VERY HARD to follow it).


I don't reject any law...I have lots of questions...and certain things i disagree with, but that doesn't make me correct when I disagree with something..it means i have to figure it out and understand it...then the next step is choosing to follow that oral law or the fence that is built around the written law.

Okay, at least the first step go and keep Shabbat - its Diorita- not Rabbinic.

there you go again with Shabbat...Listen, i think about it every Saturday...the first thing i start with is a mind at ease...most of the time, I don't leave my apartment the full day..eventhough i will do what I do at home... I'm not trying to get approval from anyone, but to be strictly shomer shabbat is not somethign i want to do right now.

I forgot, but you live in Roslyn or Great neck right? (not far from Queens?)

in NYC.

Here's the thing, Tzvi...i had thought about becoming much more observant at one point in my life.  maybe even to a closer degree to the way yo uare..but my family isn't as observant and this would mean distancing myself from them.  Should this take precendence over my family?  I have seen some people go ahead and become much more religious on their own and i have seen the pain the parents felt when they kind of realized they might have lost their child to an ideology..nevertheless a good and righteous one.  I'm sorry to say, but my life with my family as less observant, but still very righteous takes precendence and is much more important to me than being shomer shabbat by the letter of the law literally.  I do believe there will be a point where me, my siblings, and my parents will very gradually become more and more observant and Gd willing, my wife and kids whenever Gd wishes to give me either of them.  For me to suddenly become shomer shabbat and shomer kashrut or just relaly relaly super observant like you is impractical.

the reason why i stick around here on this forum and believe in JTF and Chaim is that Chaim, himself, even said that he won't necessarily rush the secular Israelis into super religious people if and when he or someone like him took power..but that it woudl become a gradual thing..through education, through positive reinforcement...and as long as he keeps his word to not hurry these things, I know that i can jump on that boat too.

So just understand, first and foremost is my family. They are righteous people who love Gd, who love Israel, who love life, who love Judaism and Torah, who love fellow Jews, who are kind tzadik people, even though not quite ready to be Orthodox.  They, as myself, have chosen to have a balance with religion and secularism. I knwo this doesn't agree with the majority on this forum, but I have decided for myself, for now, especially after my recent visit to Israel, that this is the way I'm going to have to do it. I respect anything and everything every Rabbi had to say and write about a halakha and mitzva and all the power to anyone who goes all the way to be scrupulous about these things.  I am more than willing to learn about it, but to practice certain things, just not for me right now.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3006
Re: For those of you who are Kosher
« Reply #89 on: November 26, 2007, 10:56:22 PM »
"it is rabbinical like the way you follow it, or less like the way the rest of us follow up..not saying my way is the right way..and that's the point of this. "

 I dont belive that their many besides you and 1 more guy (mabe a few more- dont know) who reject the oral Law. I gave you sources before to check out, and you never get back to me. Is it hard? YES, bu lets not deny the truth and try making it false in order to make it easier for ourselves. Check into the Religion you claim to follow, and follow it correctly. Dont make excuses in order to modify your personal needs and desires. (WE all sin, yes, but the TRUTH is the TRUTH and we have to strive VERY HARD to follow it).


I don't reject any law...I have lots of questions...and certain things i disagree with, but that doesn't make me correct when I disagree with something..it means i have to figure it out and understand it...then the next step is choosing to follow that oral law or the fence that is built around the written law.

Okay, at least the first step go and keep Shabbat - its Diorita- not Rabbinic.

there you go again with Shabbat...Listen, i think about it every Saturday...the first thing i start with is a mind at ease...most of the time, I don't leave my apartment the full day..eventhough i will do what I do at home... I'm not trying to get approval from anyone, but to be strictly shomer shabbat is not somethign i want to do right now.

I forgot, but you live in Roslyn or Great neck right? (not far from Queens?)

in NYC.

Here's the thing, Tzvi...i had thought about becoming much more observant at one point in my life.  maybe even to a closer degree to the way yo uare..but my family isn't as observant and this would mean distancing myself from them.  Should this take precendence over my family?  I have seen some people go ahead and become much more religious on their own and i have seen the pain the parents felt when they kind of realized they might have lost their child to an ideology..nevertheless a good and righteous one.  I'm sorry to say, but my life with my family as less observant, but still very righteous takes precendence and is much more important to me than being shomer shabbat by the letter of the law literally.  I do believe there will be a point where me, my siblings, and my parents will very gradually become more and more observant and Gd willing, my wife and kids whenever Gd wishes to give me either of them.  For me to suddenly become shomer shabbat and shomer kashrut or just relaly relaly super observant like you is impractical.

the reason why i stick around here on this forum and believe in JTF and Chaim is that Chaim, himself, even said that he won't necessarily rush the secular Israelis into super religious people if and when he or someone like him took power..but that it woudl become a gradual thing..through education, through positive reinforcement...and as long as he keeps his word to not hurry these things, I know that i can jump on that boat too.

So just understand, first and foremost is my family. They are righteous people who love Gd, who love Israel, who love life, who love Judaism and Torah, who love fellow Jews, who are kind tzadik people, even though not quite ready to be Orthodox.  They, as myself, have chosen to have a balance with religion and secularism. I knwo this doesn't agree with the majority on this forum, but I have decided for myself, for now, especially after my recent visit to Israel, that this is the way I'm going to have to do it. I respect anything and everything every Rabbi had to say and write about a halakha and mitzva and all the power to anyone who goes all the way to be scrupulous about these things.  I am more than willing to learn about it, but to practice certain things, just not for me right now.

I can write a lot about this and maybe I will come back and add more. 
 The first thing is that my family is also not religious and I wasn't allways religious myself.
 Even though my family isnt religious, to tell you the truth im much closer to my parents then from many of the people I know who either the whole family is secular or religious in many cases. Most of the secular do drugs and barly speak to their parents.
 I do respect my parents and do talk, also I try to get them to keep mitzvot and say brahot, but it all comes down to the individual to decide. I do respect my parents (I try my best) but I also tell them the truth when it applies to them even though they might not like it. For example when talking about kids, etc. I straight out told my dad that I wont let him be the Sandak of my kid, becuase he is Mihalel Shabbat and I dont want my future kid to get the influnces from that.

"but still very righteous takes precendence and is much more important to me than being shomer shabbat by the letter of the law literally."

 One cant be called rightious and be Mihalel Shabbat. And you dont deserve execution by stoning by not being a nice person, but you do when you break Shabbat. Even though its obviously important to keep all the mitzvot and to respect and honor others, that still doesnt excuse one from keeping such an important Mitzvah of Shabbat.

 You want your family to gradually keep mitzvot then you should start and be the example. Belive me even if they scream at you and call you crazy, after some time it will stop (they will accept you), and then even slowly (or G-d willing if your lucky and they really learn) quickly follow you.
 First of all you have to also love yourself (your true self- your soul). If your family and many others around you (unfortunatly) are doing suicide every Shabbat, then why cant you at least save yourself?
 Another point. You never know when you will die. Someone who breaks Shabbat G-d promises to cut them out of the nation of Israel (maybe except the Tinok Shinishba(however you say it) )- but you know the consequences.
 + if you love your parents then you should work on correcting yourself and being rightious (in G-ds "eyes" not your limite dunderstanding, becuase the Ben Ish Chai brings down that children can atone for their parents and elevate their souls after they pass away (threw Kaddish and doing Mitzvot).
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline jdl4ever

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2000
Re: For those of you who are Kosher
« Reply #90 on: November 26, 2007, 11:50:27 PM »
I would lay off our friend Dannycookie57.  He doesn't like being pushed around and I respect that, I don't want to be pushed around either.  I think Dannycookie57 and his parents are among the great Jews, certainly  superior to some anti-Israel nonsense spewing Yeshiva students I met and better than 98% of the Jews who are conservative or reform and who have no pride in themselves.  The Iranian Sephardim I met are a very proud and tough people who go to Shul every Sabbath and respect the Rabbi and the Shul even more than many religious Askenazim even though they may not be not fully observant.  Although us religious Jews only have good intentions for trying to make people more religious, at times it is harmful to be forceful and at these instances you should only speak when asked directly about something. 
"Enough weeping and wailing; and the following of leaders & rabbis who are pygmies of little faith & less understanding."
"I believe very much in a nation beating their swords into plowshears but when my enemy has a sword I don't want a plowshear"
-Rabbi Meir Kahane Zs'l HYD

newman

  • Guest
Re: For those of you who are Kosher
« Reply #91 on: November 26, 2007, 11:53:25 PM »
I would lay off our friend Dannycookie57.  He doesn't like being pushed around and I respect that, I don't want to be pushed around either.  I think Dannycookie57 and his parents are among the great Jews, certainly  superior to some anti-Israel nonsense spewing Yeshiva students I met and better than 98% of the Jews who are conservative or reform and who have no pride in themselves.  The Iranian Sephardim I met are a very proud and tough people who go to Shul every Sabbath and respect the Rabbi and the Shul even more than many religious Askenazim even though they may not be not fully observant.  Although us religious Jews only have good intentions for trying to make people more religious, at times it is harmful to be forceful and at these instances you should only speak when asked directly about something. 

True!
I wish ALL liberal Jews were as good as Dannycookie.

Offline jdl4ever

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2000
Re: For those of you who are Kosher
« Reply #92 on: November 27, 2007, 12:03:29 AM »
And as a side note, the reason why many not religious Jews are questioning the oral law is because almost no one really knows and understands the oral law fully and how to explain it to people logically.  I thought about this myself for several years and I finally understand the oral law almost fully with it's inherent mathematical perfection and beauty and so far no Rabbi I met knows it as well as I do.   
"Enough weeping and wailing; and the following of leaders & rabbis who are pygmies of little faith & less understanding."
"I believe very much in a nation beating their swords into plowshears but when my enemy has a sword I don't want a plowshear"
-Rabbi Meir Kahane Zs'l HYD

Offline RationalThought110

  • Moderator
  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 4813
Re: For those of you who are Kosher
« Reply #93 on: November 27, 2007, 12:46:42 AM »
And as a side note, the reason why many not religious Jews are questioning the oral law is because almost no one really knows and understands the oral law fully and how to explain it to people logically.  I thought about this myself for several years and I finally understand the oral law almost fully with it's inherent mathematical perfection and beauty and so far no Rabbi I met knows it as well as I do.   

Did you ever see the film "Pie"?  Did you understand what they were trying to solve mathematically and how Hebrew was involved?

Offline Dr. Dan

  • Forum Administrator
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12584
Re: For those of you who are Kosher
« Reply #94 on: November 27, 2007, 07:11:09 AM »
I would lay off our friend Dannycookie57.  He doesn't like being pushed around and I respect that, I don't want to be pushed around either.  I think Dannycookie57 and his parents are among the great Jews, certainly  superior to some anti-Israel nonsense spewing Yeshiva students I met and better than 98% of the Jews who are conservative or reform and who have no pride in themselves.  The Iranian Sephardim I met are a very proud and tough people who go to Shul every Sabbath and respect the Rabbi and the Shul even more than many religious Askenazim even though they may not be not fully observant.  Although us religious Jews only have good intentions for trying to make people more religious, at times it is harmful to be forceful and at these instances you should only speak when asked directly about something. 

Thank you.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline OdKahaneChai

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1794
Re: For those of you who are Kosher
« Reply #95 on: November 27, 2007, 04:11:15 PM »
And as a side note, the reason why many not religious Jews are questioning the oral law is because almost no one really knows and understands the oral law fully and how to explain it to people logically.  I thought about this myself for several years and I finally understand the oral law almost fully with it's inherent mathematical perfection and beauty and so far no Rabbi I met knows it as well as I do.   

Did you ever see the film "Pie"?  Did you understand what they were trying to solve mathematically and how Hebrew was involved?
The film was "Pi," although I would love to see "Pie" (as long as it's kosher).

One does not deal with terrorists; one does not bargain with terrorists; one kills terrorists.
- Rabbi Meir Kahane ZT"L, HY"D

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3006
Re: For those of you who are Kosher
« Reply #96 on: November 27, 2007, 08:49:12 PM »
I would lay off our friend Dannycookie57.  He doesn't like being pushed around and I respect that, I don't want to be pushed around either.  I think Dannycookie57 and his parents are among the great Jews, certainly  superior to some anti-Israel nonsense spewing Yeshiva students I met and better than 98% of the Jews who are conservative or reform and who have no pride in themselves.  The Iranian Sephardim I met are a very proud and tough people who go to Shul every Sabbath and respect the Rabbi and the Shul even more than many religious Askenazim even though they may not be not fully observant.  Although us religious Jews only have good intentions for trying to make people more religious, at times it is harmful to be forceful and at these instances you should only speak when asked directly about something. 

What a horrible post, really. Just when I was getting to the guy, you put words which would influence him and others of justifying breaking Shabbat.
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline jdl4ever

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2000
Re: For those of you who are Kosher
« Reply #97 on: November 27, 2007, 09:16:39 PM »

What a horrible post, really. Just when I was getting to the guy, you put words which would influence him and others of justifying breaking Shabbat.
We're all entitled to our own opinion, if you don't agree with my post than ignore it and do your own thing.  I admit that there is a Torah source to your approach in the Tanach about reproaching people aggressively to repent.  I got a feeling that you are assuming things wrongly about people, I assume the best about my fellow Jews and think our fellow holy Jew keeps the Sabbath Biblically speaking.  I also stand by my post as many people in this era are harmed by an aggressive approach and more is accomplished by being very gentile and patient.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2007, 09:19:43 PM by jdl4ever »
"Enough weeping and wailing; and the following of leaders & rabbis who are pygmies of little faith & less understanding."
"I believe very much in a nation beating their swords into plowshears but when my enemy has a sword I don't want a plowshear"
-Rabbi Meir Kahane Zs'l HYD

Offline Tzvi Ben Roshel1

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3006
Re: For those of you who are Kosher
« Reply #98 on: November 27, 2007, 09:24:00 PM »

What a horrible post, really. Just when I was getting to the guy, you put words which would influence him and others of justifying breaking Shabbat.
We're all entitled to our own opinion, if you don't agree with my post than ignore it and do your own thing.  I admit that there is a Torah source to your approach in the Tanach about reproaching people aggressively to repent.  I got a feeling that you are assuming things wrongly about people, I assume the best about my fellow Jews and think our fellow holy Jew keeps the Sabbath Biblically speaking.  I also stand by my post as many people in this era are harmed by an aggressive approach and more is accomplished by being very gentile and patient.

I never said I hate, the opposite, I would like and would love Jews to see the truth and not break Mitzvot and then have to suffer for it.  G-d is not a lier, when He warns for sins expecially for example Shabbat - that a Mihalel would be cut out of the nation of Israel (except real repentence) and all the other punishments, then its serious stuff.
The Academy of Elijah taught, whoever studies the laws (of the Torah) every day, (he) is guaranteed to have a share in the World to Come.

‏119:139 צִמְּתַתְנִי קִנְאָתִי כִּישָׁכְחוּ דְבָרֶיךָ צָרָי
My zeal incenses me, for my adversaries have forgotten Your words.
‏119:141 צָעִיר אָנֹכִי וְנִבְזֶה פִּקֻּדֶיךָ, לֹא שָׁכָחְתִּי.
 I am young and despised; I have not forgotten Your precepts.

" A fool does not realize, and an unwise person does not understand this (i.e. the following:) When the wicked bloom like grass, and the evildoers blossom (i.e. when they seem extremly successful), it is to destroy them forever (i.e. they are rewarded for their few good deeds in this World, and they will have no portion in the World to Come!)

Please visit: (The Greatest lectures on Earth).
http://torahanytime.com/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Yossi_Mizrachi/
http://www.torahanytime.com/Rabbi/Zecharia_Wallerstein/

Offline Dr. Dan

  • Forum Administrator
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12584
Re: For those of you who are Kosher
« Reply #99 on: November 27, 2007, 09:34:16 PM »
I would lay off our friend Dannycookie57.  He doesn't like being pushed around and I respect that, I don't want to be pushed around either.  I think Dannycookie57 and his parents are among the great Jews, certainly  superior to some anti-Israel nonsense spewing Yeshiva students I met and better than 98% of the Jews who are conservative or reform and who have no pride in themselves.  The Iranian Sephardim I met are a very proud and tough people who go to Shul every Sabbath and respect the Rabbi and the Shul even more than many religious Askenazim even though they may not be not fully observant.  Although us religious Jews only have good intentions for trying to make people more religious, at times it is harmful to be forceful and at these instances you should only speak when asked directly about something. 

What a horrible post, really. Just when I was getting to the guy, you put words which would influence him and others of justifying breaking Shabbat.

Tzvi you weren't getting to me..sorry to burst your bubble.

and nobody is encouraging me to break shabbat. Shabbat has a different meaning to me than it does for you right now. 

but believe me, everytime I think about Shabbat, I do think about what you have to say about it, so I have taken it to heart..so not all is lost.  The thing is Jews have two choices: to wander the desert for 40 years till they find the promised land, or take that shortcut right then and there. My friend, I'm a wanderer...that's the only way I'll learn...but by all means, you can take that short cut if you want.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein