Author Topic: "Moderate Muslims" and other myths  (Read 1566 times)

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Offline davkakach

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"Moderate Muslims" and other myths
« on: November 12, 2006, 10:34:07 AM »
This is part of an email exchange I had with a female friend who finds the bitter truth about Islam too terrible to accept.



You wrote that you find it hard to believe that all Muslims are bad.  The problem is in our definition of what is "bad", what is "Muslim", and most importantly, what is a "bad Muslim", and conversely, what is a "good Muslim".  So, let's approach the issue in a non-biased, scholarly fashion.  Take "good Muslim", for example.  There are two ways to interpret this concept.

1. a good (peaceful) person who is a Muslim
2. a person who is a good (faithful) Muslim
3. a person who is both #1 and #2

Regarding #1, it's obvious that there are Muslims out there who are "moderate" and peaceful.  (I'll explain why I put "moderate" in quotation marks below.)

Regarding #2, we need to determine if jihadists fall into this category or not.

And lastly, regarding #3, we need to find out if a person can be both #1 and #2 simultaneously.

Let's examine #2.  I don't want to go into details, but it is a FACT that the Qur'an and four books of the Hadith (edited respectively by Bukhari, Ishaq, Muslim, and Al-Tabari), which are accepted by ALL Muslims, including both Sunni and Shi'a, as the absolute Truth, establish jihad as an integral part of authentic Islam.  Jihad is the task of spreading the darkness of Islam throughout the world, whether through warfare, demography (higher birthrate) or Da'wa (proselytizing), which includes such means as Taqiya and Tuquq (lying and deceiving infidels about the real intentions of Islam).  Muslims are not allowed to sign permanent treaties with infidels.  Every treaty signed by Muslims is temporary by definition, and is called Hudna.  They are allowed to honor treaties for at most 10 years, and they are also commanded to break treaties whenever they are strong enough to engage again in battle and wield the sword.

If a Muslim is unwilling to participate in Jihad, he is obligated to support jihadists.  Muslims who reject the doctrine of jihad and make friends among infidels are called "Hypocrites" in the Qur'an, and they are lumped together with the infidels when the Qur'an describes the punishment for those who oppose Islam.  In fact, these peaceful Muslims are considered worse than infidels, and "the hottest places in hell are reserved for them."  (Now you know why I put "moderate" in quotation marks.)  Why this harsh treatment of Muslims who simply find it difficult to accept the violent aspects of Islam?  In my opinion, it is because they weaken the resolve of the other Muslims, and thereby hinder the jihad effort.  Quality is usually more important than quantity, as evidenced in many stories in the Bible, as well as the history of modern warfare.  You don't just send anyone to war---you send only those who are brave and determined to win.  Islam is one long war, and all Muslims are supposed to be like soldiers always on the offensive, and in war, cowardice of a soldier is contagious, and hurts the war effort.  The Qur'an and Hadith state explicitly that a good, faithful Muslim participates in the jihad, a better Muslim is one who participates actively in the jihad (taking the sword), and the best Muslim is a martyr who dies while striving for Allah (which effectively makes Islam a death cult).  So, based on the QUR'ANIC definition of what is a "good Muslim", it is clear that a good Muslim cannot be a good, peaceful person, and so the answer to #3 is NO.  It's just a matter of definition, and the definition is in the Qur'an and Hadith, and NOT in the intellectually dishonest garbage written by Muslims and their leftist useful idiot apologists.  You can have a peaceful person who THINKS he is a good (faithful) Muslim, but, of course, he is not, according to HIS own religion, and he is just fooling himself.

In any event, in a time of war, there is no time for misplaced pity.  During WWII, the Allies didn't try to distinguish between "good", "peaceful" Nazis and "bad" Nazis.  This is part of the concept of collective punishment, which might seem harsh and unjust for many people, but it IS just, nevertheless.  If you notice that the society in which you live is adopting evil ways, and you choose to continue to reside in that society, instead of distancing yourself from that society, then by staying there and paying taxes you support that society's evil government and you become partly responsible for its actions, and when that society is punished, you must bear part of that punishment.  It's very simple and very just.

Now that we've established that a good Muslim cannot be a good person, the next question is:  Can Islam be reformed, and can the concept of "good Muslim" be redefined, so that a good, peace-loving person will be allowed to be considered a "good Muslim"?

Sadly, the answer is NO.  Islam, as defined by the Qur'an and Hadith, does not provide any evolutionary mehanisms for modifying itself.  Any attempt to change Islam, as defined by the Qur'an and Hadith is considered apostasy, punishable by death.  The Qur'an DID establish a mechanism called Nas'kh in Arabic (abrogation in English), according to which, if two verses in the Qur'an contradict each other, than the later verse replaces the earlier verse, but this mechanism applies only to the existing content of the Qur'an and does not apply to future "amendments"---such amendments are not allowed because the Qur'an affirms that Muhamad was the last (so-called) prophet, and his say is final.  Incidentally, this is complicated by the fact that the Qur'an is not ordered chronologically, which is why the Hadith is so important, because, among other things, it provides the information necessary to order the Suras (chapters) of the Qur'an chronologically, and resolve all contradictions according to the principle of Nas'kh.  For example, all peaceful verses in the Qur'an dealing with the treatment of infidels have been replaced by later violent verses, and when Muslims quote the peaceful verses to Infidels, it is in a direct attempt to confuse and deceive Infidels about the true nature of Islam and the true intentions of good (faithful, jihadist) Muslims.

Now, back to what you're written:  "For me it is a problem trying to hate anyone.... with my natural positive tendencies, maybe you can see why it is hard for me to accept so many negative statements."  During WWII, I am sure that there were many people with a positive outlook on life, who didn't quite know how to deal with the evil of Nazism.  They couldn't comprehend the magnitude of that evil!  They thought that maybe you could sit with Evil over a cup of coffee and reach some kind of civilized agreement.  They had to believe that there MUST be some win-win compromise.  These same people didn't listen, they couldn't listen, to Churchill, and instead put their trust in Chamberlain.  Eventually they DID listen to Churchill, when it was almost too late.

If a criminal holds a knife and is lurching to attack your children, and you have a loaded gun in your hand, are you going to just stand there, abhorring violence, trying to understand his "desperate" actions in light of his "difficult childhood", and hoping that miraculously he will change his mind, or are you going to defend your children by shooting that man to death (making sure he's dead by shooting him in the head AFTER he's already lying on the ground, so that if he's alive and recovers, he won't try to kill you or your family in revenge once he's out of jail)?  I think the answer is obvious.  Our (Jewish) sages say, "He who has mercy for the cruel, will someday cause cruelty unto the merciful."  This is an immutable law of nature, and any cursory study of history will confirm it.  The two most recent examples:

France has been showing mercy to its Muslim "citizens", and this policy has resulted in cruelty to its French, non-Muslim women who have been gang-raped, men who have been assaulted, and TENS of cars which have been burned EVERY night throughout France, for the last few years.

Bush showed mercy to Muslims by trying to offer them "democracy" and "freedom", and making inane "distinctions" between "moderate" Islam and "radical" Islam.  This foolish, misguided policy resulted in cruelty to tens of thousands of good, patriotic American soldiers who lost lives and limbs for nothing (and let there be no doubt as to the ultimate outcome of the Iraq fiasco---it WILL end in civil war, and possibly a partition into Sunni, Shi'a and Kurd territories, and the Shi'a territory allying itself with terrorist Iran).

Evil exists in this world, whether we like it or not, and the best way, the ONLY way, to deal with Evil, is by following the "Old" Testament, even if you are an atheist!  In other words, whether you believe in G-d or not, by following His commandments, you are guaranteed success!  Remarkable, isn't it?  On the very first day of Creation, G-d created Light and Darkness, which correspond to Good and Evil, and also to Truth and Falsehood, respectively.  The first thing that He did afterwards was to SEPARATE them, and we must follow His example by always practicing separate of Good from Evil, NEVER integration.

In a sense, the belligerence of Islam is a blessing in disguise, because it forces us to confront the confusion and falsehood of our secular, politically-correct, multicultural societies.  Not all religions are made equal.  Not all cultures are equally moral.  We don't have a chance of defeating Islam until we confront OUR OWN FEARS and doubts about the Truth.  Islamic terrorism is just a symptom of a deeper problem.  This whole struggle is about Truth, and THAT is the significance of Islam in the world.  It has existed and has grown in strength for the last 1400 years, but now the time has finally come for it to fulfill the role for which it was created---the final battle for the Truth!  Islam does not permit us to deceive ourselves, to peddle half-truths, to find a way for our truth to co-exist with the Islamic "truth".  Muslims essentially tell us, "You can't have it both ways!  It's either Islam, or Dhimmitude (living as despised, humiliated, second-class citizens under Muslim rule), or war."  Islam doesn't accept any "deals" and compromises.  It FORCES us to acknowledge the Truth (which we DO possess), and to be willing to fight and, yes, even kill, for that Truth.  Islam is the ultimate death blow to all the "Why can't we all get along" defeatist crowd.

King David, in one of his Psalms, wrote:

"Let the righteous rejoice, for he saw vengeance, he will wash his feet in the blood of the wicked."

When you kill the wicked, you show mercy not only to others who might be potential victims of that wicked person, but you also show mercy to the soul of the wicked person himself!  His soul, as is the soul of any person, IS pure, but it is trapped in a body that acts wickedly, and in the hereafter will be severely punished for that wicked person's actions.  So it is merciful to kill that person and spare his soul of a worse punishment, and THAT, ultimately,  is the HIGHEST form of mercy.  And the Rambam (Maimonides---one of the greatest Jewish commentators on the Torah) said:  "Through the mercy of fools is justice lost."  THE MERCY OF FOOLS!  What a concept!  What a concept for us to know, to appreciate!  The mercy of fools.

I'm not trying to convince you to kill anyone.  What I AM trying to do is convince you to acknowledge the (sadly terrible) truth (preferably after you've done your own research to corroborate my conclusions---even though I've read literally thousands of pages on the subject, you shouldn't believe me blindly), and then, whenever someone broaches the subject, you must insist on telling the truth, and never compromise on the Truth.  It is our responsibility---we, the (relatively) few people of conscience who are informed and (hopefully) courageous---to educate and warn the others, even at the price of being ostracized, ridiculed and labeled "xenophobes", "Islamophobes", "alarmists", "bigots", etc., so that later, when tragedy strikes (G-d forbid), those others will not be able to plead ignorance, and claim, "We didn't know, we weren't told."

Most people don't like confrontation, especially in our politically-correct society.  But whether or not you see this as an issue of collective responsibility, you can be certain that the eventual punishment meted out to our society (G-d forbid, may it never occur) will definitely be collective, whether we kept silent, or spoke Truth to power.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2006, 07:35:50 AM by davkakach »
Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil.   --Thomas Mann

Offline jdl4ever

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Re: "Moderate Muslims" and other myths
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2006, 01:14:32 AM »
Sorry to tell you but there are some moderate muslims living in Western societies but I admit that they are not "true" muslims since they don't obey Sharia law and take the koran literally.  An analogy to this is reform Jews who are not true jews, but they consider themselves to be true jews; so too these muslims consider themselves to be muslims but they adhere to a non Muslim culture.  Some of these went to my college and they are nice people.  However, I trust them as much as I can throw a stone since the only reason why they don't kill you is because they are affraid to go to jail or they are attracted to the opportunities of western culture, but if the governement falls apart one day, they would revert back to their true selves. 
« Last Edit: November 13, 2006, 01:19:59 AM by jdl4ever »
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Re: "Moderate Muslims" and other myths
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2006, 12:41:21 PM »
they would revert back to their true selves. 

and you know this how? ???

Offline davkakach

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Re: "Moderate Muslims" and other myths
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2006, 12:48:24 PM »
Quote
but I admit that they are not "true" muslims since they don't obey Sharia law and take the koran literally.
That's the problem.  They are called "hypocrites" by the Qur'an, and are lumped together with infidels.
Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil.   --Thomas Mann

Offline Alex

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Re: "Moderate Muslims" and other myths
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2006, 11:00:49 PM »
Sorry to tell you but there are some moderate muslims living in Western societies but I admit that they are not "true" muslims since they don't obey Sharia law and take the koran literally.  An analogy to this is reform Jews who are not true jews, but they consider themselves to be true jews; so too these muslims consider themselves to be muslims but they adhere to a non Muslim culture.  Some of these went to my college and they are nice people.  However, I trust them as much as I can throw a stone since the only reason why they don't kill you is because they are affraid to go to jail or they are attracted to the opportunities of western culture, but if the governement falls apart one day, they would revert back to their true selves. 

I perfectly agree with you.