Arab Catholic Bishop of mid-East says Israel can'nt be Jewish state

[mord]

Like anyone in Israel cares what this politician says              http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071219/wl_mideast_afp/mideastdiplomacychristmas_071219121014;_ylt=An.6TF6ZpZeHlNcXppiJOjYUewgF    

Mideast Catholic leader says peace depends on Israel 1 hour, 19 minutes ago
 


JERUSALEM (AFP) - The Catholic leader in the Holy Land said on Wednesday in a Christmas message that peace depended on Israel and rejected the idea of a religious state on land revered by Christians, Jews and Muslims.

"To attain peace, it is necessary to believe that Israelis and PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis are equal in all things, that they have the same rights and the same duties," Latin Patriarch Michel Sabbah said in Jerusalem.

"The strong party, the one with everything in hand, the one who is imposing occupation on the other, has the obligation to see what is just for everyone and to carry it out courageously."

Answering questions after reading out his Christmas message, Sabbah said Israelis and PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis were in a "new phase" after relaunching the peace process in the US city of Annapolis last month following a seven-year freeze.

"There is something new in this Annapolis. That the American administration is decided (to push for peace), though the decision will be taken by those who are here, PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis and Israelis," he said.

"And the one who will make the decision will be Israel. If Israel decides for peace, we will have peace," Sabbah said.

The patriarch, who oversees Catholics in Cyprus, Israel, Jordan and the PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazi territories, said the Holy Land was universal to Christians, Jews and Muslims, and that any state must recognise those claims.

"This land cannot be excluded for anyone... The land belongs to three religions, without excluding one religion or the other," he said.

"That's why establishing a religious state, with a Jewish or Muslim religious character, would exclude the other religion and would treat unjustly the believers of other religions," he said.

Israel wants the PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis to recognise the state's Jewish nature.

PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis refuse this, seeing it as de facto rejection of the right of return for refugees who fled when the state of Israel was created in 1948.

Israelis fear that a massive return of PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazi refugees would put the Jewish population -- currently 80 percent -- in a minority.

"There is discrimination linked to the nature of the state. Israel says simply 'I am a Jewish state' and that creates discrimination with regard to non Jews," said Sabbah, who was born in Nazareth, today in northern Israel.

[Ambiorix]

This Catholic Archbishop believes peace is possible between archenemies.

The Holocaust and the history of pogroms in Europe was a proof for the fact Jews need a country of their own.

The day muslims are willing to scrap the hundreds of passages in the Koran referring to killing infidels/people of the book/Jews/Christians,
a multi-religious Holy Land would be possible. This day will never come. Islam is a religion based on lies.
Take out these lies, and you'll have to dismantle the whole book.

Although the relations between Jews and Christians today , are better than in the previous decades or centuries, I , as a Christian, would advise Israel to ignore his requests, and no to commit national suicide.

I hope the Jews can live in peace, with the enemies outside Israel's borders.

[mord]

Here the Arab Bishop has more to say he seems more like a palastinian bishop which he is.         




Catholic leader rejects Israel's Jewish identity


Top Roman Catholic clergyman in Jerusalem slams definition of Israel as Jewish nation, says land must be shared by all religions. Latin Patriarch says Israeli-Palestinian conflict has unleashed 'forces of evil' across Middle East, conflict perpetuates because of Israel's 'unwillingness' to make peace

News agencies Published:  12.19.07, 17:35 / Israel News 






Israel's identity as a Jewish state discriminates against non-Jews, its top Roman Catholic clergyman said

Crisis with Catholics?
 
Undiplomatic maneuvers  / Amos Carmel
 
Vatican envoy's threat to boycott Shoah ceremony raises questions about him, us
Full Story
 
 
 
in a pre-Christmas address on Wednesday in Jerusalem.

 

''If there's a state of one religion, other religions are naturally discriminated against,'' Latin Patriarch Michel Sabbah told reporters at the annual press conference he holds in Jerusalem before Christmas. In his address, which he read in Arabic and English, Sabbah said Israel should abandon its Jewish character in favor of a ''political, normal state for Christians, Muslims and Jews.''

 

Sabbah denounced Israel's demand to be recognized as a Jewish state by the Palestinians and said "God made this land for all three of us, so a suitable state is one who can adapt itself to the vocation of this land.

 

''This land cannot be exclusive for anyone,'' he said, adding that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict had unleashed "forces of evil" across the Middle East and that it was Israel's obligation, as to end the warring. "The one who will decide is Israel. If Israel decides for peace, there will be peace… Until now, there has been no peace, simply because there has been no willingness to make it."

 

Sabbah expressed hope for peace in the Holy Land and urged both sides to shun violence, whether "carried out by the state or by extremists".



Arye Mekel, a spokesman for Israel's foreign ministry, said Israel provides full religious freedom to people of all faiths. ''We reject his claim that other religions are not enjoying equal rights in Israel,'' Mekel said.


 

Israel has long pointed out that

 
 
   
 
other countries call themselves Islamic republics and are not criticized.

 

Sabbah, who has been the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem since 1987, is the first Palestinian to hold the post and is frequently critical of Israel.

 

He also lashed out at Israel for visa restrictions he said were unfair to Christian clergy

[Ambiorix]

As long as he keeps bashing Israel he'll be loved by his Fakestinians compatriots.

[Zionist Revolutionary]

And he probably supports EVERY Muslim state under the sun.  He wouldn't dare question Saudi Arabia's Muslim identity, even as it bans Jews and Christians from its land.

(Although, thats probably a good thing.  Why would Jews or Christians want to live among the sand-maggots anyway?)

[Ambiorix]

But he probably supports EVERY Muslim state under the sun.  He wouldn't dare question Saudi Arabia's Muslim identity, even as it bans Jews and Christians from its land.

(Although, thats probably a good thing.  Why would Jews or Christians want to live among the sand-maggots anyway?)

Of course not, that would hurt the ecumenical dialogue...
However , these muslms do NOT believe in the God I believe in !!!

[jerry1800]

What can we expect this Dhimmi to say ??   

[Raulmarrio2000]

I think it is a mistake to say Muslims belueve in a pagan idol. (which is crearly false) They claim to believe in Hashem and call Him A-llah. But it would be more accurate to say that many of them belive in nothing but hate and murder.
And Catholics are never pro-Muslim. Some of them support Arabs because they know Arabs are not Chosen, but hate the Jews out of envy, since Jews are really the Chosen People, and Catholics are worried!!!! What if Moshiach really comes one day!!!!!! That's their fear!!!!!!

[Ambiorix]

The history of mohammed.

He took over some of the elements of Judaism/Christianity he heard about.

Then he incorporated some arab pagan cults (This happened also with Christianity.)

The reason I call islam a pagan cult, is because it is worshipping an image of god, that resembles to the devil.
The inhumanity of the Koran is clearly not coming from God, but from the opposite of god.
It i a negation of god.
To conceal this biggest lie ever, they blame the Jews for distorting all books they believe in.

The reality is that Islam has stolen the message from Jews and has distorted it itself , and openly calls for the distruction of the jewish people.

I don't think Christianity has a same message.
The god of Christians and Jews at least have something in common.

Catholics in the arab world , I can not comment on, never investigated this.
But i do think the Catholic Church should side with Israel, rather than siding with the Saudis and the Palestians.

[Raulmarrio2000]

But i do think the Catholic Church should side with Israel, rather than siding with the Saudis and the Palestians.

They cannot side with Israel. They unconciously think Moshiach may come after all. And what would they do with their religion? At least Palis will never produce a Moshiach.........

[Ambiorix]

They unconciously think Moshiach may come after all.

I do not know these Messiah stories - politics .

Can you fully explain it to me?

[Raulmarrio2000]

They unconciously think Moshiach may come after all.

I do not know these Messiah stories - politics .

Can you fully explain it to me?

It's not politics. Christians and Muslims are not completely sure about their own faith. They are afraid of the fact that Judaism may be right. Israel was reborn, and the Moshiach could come at any moment. They don't believe, but they don't feel sure, either. So they prefer to side with the "Harmless Muslims". In Fact Muslims may be terrorists and even destroy a Church and kill many Catholics, but will never be able to prove Catholicism wrong. Jewish Moshiach CAN. That's their problem

[Ambiorix]

They unconciously think Moshiach may come after all.

I do not know these Messiah stories - politics .

Can you fully explain it to me?

It's not politics. Christians and Muslims are not completely sure about their own faith. They are afraid of the fact that Judaism may be right. Israel was reborn, and the Moshiach could come at any moment. They don't believe, but they don't feel sure, either. So they prefer to side with the "Harmless Muslims". In Fact Muslims may be terrorists and even destroy a Church and kill many Catholics, but will never be able to prove Catholicism wrong. Jewish Moshiach CAN. That's their problem

So the Church fears Jesus might be proven not to be the Messiah? Because the real one can come?
And therefore it is anti-Israel?

seems unlogical.
If the Messiah comes , he comes.
It shouldn't have any effect on the relations between Jews-Christians.
It is not in our hands.

The problem is , the christian arabs are in a situation of great danger (muslims might kill them)
therefore, the Church is very diplomatic towards arabs.

If it sides with Israel, the Church risks to become target of muslims.

[dhimmi_pride]

The Catholic Church does not hate Jews, Benedict XVI opposed the Nazis, and the Pope is not the spirtual leader of the Italian mafia.

This is just one idiot Bishop and what he says has no consequences on any church teaching. The good news is that he will be forced to resign this spring and hopefully the Pope will accept.

[Raulmarrio2000]

The real reason the Catholic church hates the Jews is because it's an eternal principle that Esau hates Jacob.  This is why you have so many illogical reasons given by them to oppose Israel.  The article said that Israel being a "Jewish state" causes discrimination.  But they have no problem with the fact that there are many "Christian nations" with Jews living in them--is this discrimination?  They criticize Israel being a "religious state" but nothing could be further from the truth.  Israel is a secular state.  But they have no problem with the Vatican being an actual real-life religious state.  This double standard is amazing and really reveals a hatred for the Jewish people and support for PLO/Hamas terrorist thugs.  But I guess the Pope is a former member of Hitler Youth and the Catholic church is technically the spiritual leader of the Italian mafia, so why should we expect them to be even-handed towards Jews and speak out against terrorist thugs?

In fact the Vatican can be a totally religious State, even totalitarian if they want, and it's ok,  since it is a micro-State and not a country. They have no population other than cardinals who chose to be there. But the Church is always advocating Christian values in most countries, they attempted to stop the divorce Law in Argentina on the argument that the majority of Argentinians are Catholic, and now they claim Israel cannot be Jewish, hypocrites!!!!!!!!!

[dhimmi_pride]

No "they" don't claim that Israel can't be Jewish, one bishop did so you are being dishonest. People don't paint all Jews by what a Rabbi says so don't attack the Church based on one Arab Bishop. He is not speaking on behalf of the Church. He represents Catholics in the West Bank who don't like Israel to begin with and are now being ruled over by the PLO/Hamas what do you expect?? No wonder Christians are leaving the region in droves.

[Raulmarrio2000]

No "they" don't claim that Israel can't be Jewish, one bishop did so you are being dishonest. People don't paint all Jews by what a Rabbi says so don't attack the Church based on one Arab Bishop. He is not speaking on behalf of the Church. He represents Catholics in the West Bank who don't like Israel to begin with and are now being ruled over by the PLO/Hamas what do you expect?? No wonder Christians are leaving the region in droves.

The words of one Bishop can be not neccesarily the Church's opinion, but rememeber the the former Pope claimed that Jerusalem must not be "only Jewish", but when PM Barak wanted to make it only Arab, he didn't oppose. I don't know if Ratzinger has another opinion. Anyway there a difference between Judaism and Catholicism, Jews cannot be charged for what a Rav does or saus, since Jews are not a united institution, but the Church IS. One Bishop doesn't matter, but if this Pope also opposes a Jewish Jerusalem, then the Church would be guilty.

[dhimmi_pride]

I don't know about Barak's plan and John Paul II. Did the Pope support it or just not oppose it? What does "only Jewish" mean? If it means that only Jewish people have a place in Jerusalem and Christians don't have a right to be there, have Churches, pray, make pilgrimages ect. Well of course any Pope would oppose this. But if you mean that it belongs solely within the borders of Israel the Jewish State that is different.

Pope John Paul II was certainly a bit of a dhimmi but Benedict XVI has been much better. As a theologian he has consistantly stressed the "eternal covanant" between God and the Jewish people and he was also architect behind the Vatican establishing full diplomatic relations with Israel in a treaty signed in Jerusalem in 1993. I don't think he has any problem with Israel including Jerusalem being a Jewish State.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Ratzinger.html

[Raulmarrio2000]

John Paul II said that Jerusalem should be international when peace talks began, but kept silent when Barak was ready to sign a treaty giving the Temple Mount and all Christian sites to Falestinians. The Wall and the Jewish neighbourhood would be Israeli. It simply didn't happen because Arafat refused to sign, claiming that "refugees" should be allowed to live in all Israel.
Regarding Christian pilgrimages, Israelies have never opposed to them up till this day.

[newman]

Someone should kill that dhimmi idiot!

[mord]

The question i have why did it take the vatican so long to recognize Israel,and where   the Bishops when the Jordanians made the area around the the Kotel[the western wall] a garbage dump.Another thing when the arabs ruled Jerusalem and Jews were not allowed to visit the Holy sites in Jerusalem or in Yesha where were these Bioshops and vatican.They have no moral authority to preach.

[dhimmi_pride]

The Catholic Church does not hate Jews, Benedict XVI opposed the Nazis, and the Pope is not the spirtual leader of the Italian mafia.

Wasn't the current Pope in The Hitler Youth?

He was forced to join because it was required by law for all boys passed age 14 but he refused to attend their meetings. His father was a vocal critic of the nazi's and they were forced to move because he had clashed with them in 1932. The family also hated them because a mentally retarded cousin was killed by the nazi's as part of their eugenics campaign.

http://bc.edu/research/cjl/meta-elements/texts/cjrelations/topics/new_pope_defied_nazis.htm

[Dexter]

Arab Christians are mostly pro-Arab thamselvs. I am sure it's because they are afraid of the Islamic rule so they want to be favoured by the Muslims so they won't sloughter tham.

[dhimmi_pride]

Arab Christians are mostly pro-Arab thamselvs. I am sure it's because they are afraid of the Islamic rule so they want to be favoured by the Muslims so they won't sloughter tham.

Thats true you don't hear very many Rabbis in Yemen, Egypt, Iran, Tunisia ect now or before the pogroms, shouting their support for Israel either. Although some Arab Christians do honestly favor pan-Arabism, in part as a counter to Jihadism, but that movement seems to be disappearing in the Arab would in favor of the Jihadists. 

[Ulli]

I think that the history of Christians under Muslime dominance should show every sane mind, that Muslimes are enemies. Bat Yeor wrote and spoke about this issue. You can hear her on youtube in an interview with Pamela Geller:









Are there Christians in Israel, who support Hayamin.org?