Author Topic: Hunting and Gun Rights  (Read 2457 times)

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Offline Rubystars

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Hunting and Gun Rights
« on: December 24, 2007, 09:44:46 PM »
I have heard that Jews are not allowed to be hunters, and even though I'm not Jewish I don't agree with most hunting (I don't have a problem with subsistence hunting but the recreational stuff is just disgusting to me, especially of animals that can't be eaten).

However, the strongest group of people who are in favor of gun rights are hunters. They literally need their guns for their so-called sport.

I was wondering how the Jewish folks and others who might feel bad about hunting itself feel about having to work together with hunters and possibly even support hunting rights in order to support gun rights?

Offline Raulmarrio2000

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Re: Hunting and Gun Rights
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2007, 09:53:01 PM »
I don't know the Hallacha, but since sport hunting is cruelty I suppose a Jew is forbidden to support hunters. I forbid hunting in my lands. When my mother lived, she wanted that the persons working in our lands would open fire on hunters if they just happened to enter.
I like guns for self-defense and collection, but have never decided to buy one. Here I'd go to jail for shooting at a stupid neo-nazi.

Offline White Israelite

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Re: Hunting and Gun Rights
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2007, 10:03:26 PM »
There are several reasons Jews never got involved in hunting, as you stated one of the reasons being forbidden.

There is no Jewish hunting tradition, owing to the halakhic requirements for humane slaughter of animals and ban on their cruel treatment. We are taught to identify with the hunted, not with the hunters.

Throughout three millennia of dwelling as a pariah minority amidst the gentiles, the traditional Jewish response to pagan, Christian, and Moslem persecution has favored paying off their persecutors, on the assumption that they would not be dumb enough to kill the goose that keeps laying golden eggs. The logical conclusion of this survival strategy is incisively documented in Raul Hilberg's treatise, The Destruction of the European Jews. In spite of this fiasco, Jewish disdain for self-defense and political autonomy continues as a matter of self-loathing and inertia.

http://judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabbi_c/bl_hunting.htm

look up the passage in the old Hebrew history book that states: "was there a shield or a spear seen amoung fourtythousand in Israel?"
In another passage it states that the Philistines/ Palestinians did not permit the Jews to sharpen their farming tools for fear that they would forge swords and spears! That is part of your tradition. I'm supposing it came about, at least in part during the Babylonian/ Iraq / Iran captivities where the Rabbinical authority developed. The exiles were enslaved and those who survived found that investing in higher education, which the captors esteemed, to the point where it takes on a religious quality, enabled them to survive and even prosper. Those who thought like this were "remnants."

It violates a prohibition with origins in a law that states that the taking of a limb from a living creature and eating it is unlawful. (Eyver Min Ha'Chai) Also from the learnings that Esau used to enjoy hunting not only for food but just for the kill making him a Rasha or evil man.



I don't hunt, but that should pose another question, if your life is in danger, you are starving and you need food, would it be ok to hunt to get food? We can't survive off grass after all.

Also most hunting "organizations" aren't really pro-gun at all, they are what we refer to as "Fudd's", Fudd's believe that the right to bear arms only applies to hunting and not so called "evil black rifles" or "handguns". There are a few pro gun hunting groups but not many.

newman

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Re: Hunting and Gun Rights
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2007, 10:11:59 PM »
The right to bear arms in the USA has NOTHING to do with hunting or sport. It is to guarantee freedom from oppressive governments. The Founding Fathers said as much.

Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: Hunting and Gun Rights
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2007, 12:17:49 AM »
The Jewish People in ancient times were known to have herds of domesticated sheep, goats, camels, cattle...etc.

For this reason alone they already had moved past the stage of living as "hunter-gatherers" which peoples in Europe and elsewhere were still practicing.

Hunting was an essential skill for survival in cultures where the hunt meant not only food but skins for clothing and shelter.

In frigid climates the gathering of wood before the snows and the storage of meat from the hunt meant the difference between life or death.

Not so in the semi-desert regions of the ancient Middle East where caravans crossed all parts of the known world bearing grain, foodstuffs, luxuries, spices, medicines, etc...

The bazaar marketplace was the central area where one could trade or purchase livestock, prepared foods, jewelry.

Fish were caught by fishermen who would cast nets for them, and some degree of hunting & gathering undoubtedly existed but it did not become an integral part of Jewish culture and traditions.

Even when the Israelites were in the wilderness following Moses, G-d Himself provided for their needs; feeding them manna.