Kahanist Singles > Jewish Singles
Should Jews Participate In Senior Proms?
Dr. Dan:
--- Quote from: There Are No 'Israeli' Arabs on January 30, 2008, 05:55:17 PM ---
--- Quote from: Nic Brookes on January 30, 2008, 04:50:11 PM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on January 30, 2008, 04:39:44 PM ---
--- Quote from: Nic Brookes on January 30, 2008, 12:47:29 PM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on January 29, 2008, 06:22:45 PM ---
--- Quote from: Nic Brookes on January 29, 2008, 05:58:09 PM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on January 29, 2008, 05:51:08 PM ---
--- Quote from: Nic Brookes on January 29, 2008, 05:45:41 PM ---
--- Quote ---Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
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In a word, no. There is no obligation for Jews at these proms to dance or dress immodestly, what is the problem with Jews attending social events and having a good time?
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You are not Jewish. Who gave you the authority to decide Jewish Law?
There is nothing wrong with attending social events. The problem is that men and women dancing together is immodest, period. Men aren't even supposed to see women dancing among women because it is immodest to see the form of a woman dancing. That is why the mechitza at a Jewish wedding is not made so you can see through it but the mechitza in a synagogue is made with wholes where the women can look across and see the men praying. The second is fine as long as the men don't stare at the women through the wholes. It's just meant to keep a separation between the genders.
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This is my Gentile point of view, your question by using the word "Should" is implying that you are inviting all points of view, and this is mine. I simply can't believe that dancing is immodest! Is going to watch the ballet forbidden? Social events are, by definition, social, and I would say that it is morally wrong for Jews to be forbidden from mixing with Gentiles on account of this. However, this is coming from my position as a Gentile (as I cannot see why this is immodest) and I respect your views, even though I would disagree with them.
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Jews who marry Gentiles have no place in The World To Come. Jews who do that are traitors. You are NOT going to come in here and say that Jewish beliefs are morally wrong. You are being like FTF and his attack on The Talmud.
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I did not mention marriage at all. The context I said was social mixing. Who are you to stop Jews mixing with Gentiles in a social way. I too am opposed to Jews marrying Gentiles, because I believe Judaism's rules on this should be respected. However I cannot see how male-female dancing is bad at all. And I don't see how dancing with someone of the opposite sex (provided it is not immodest) is bad, even between Jew and Gentile if there is nothing sexual going with it.
Also please can you answer my question on ballet. Is it wrong for Jews to watch ballet, in your opinion, Yacov?
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Dancing with a woman is sexual in Judaism so it should not be done with anyone except between a husband and wife in private.
When I was immodest, I just wanted to dance with women so I could hug them. If you're married, you can always hug your wife so it wouldn't be a big deal to dance with a woman. Anything involving hugging, dancing, or kissing should not be done between a Jew and Gentile of the opposite gender. The most lenient position is that it is okay to shake hands and that is what Chaim holds by and what Rabbi Kahane held by. I am more strict and wouldn't want to shake hands with an attractive women because I am a man and it is immodest. Chaim's sister holds by the more strict position and doesn't shake hands with men at all.
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OK, thanks for clearing that up :)
Out of interest, why is it immodest in Judaism, and why is shaking hands immodest?
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Shaking hands (with the opposite sex) is not immodest per se. However, there is a prohibition against deriving pleasure from touching a woman (or a man in the opposite case). Thus, many refrain from touching or shaking a hand at all, as a fence around this rule. I personally do not shake hands with a female unless they stick out their hand first, and even then I don't give a firm grip. The act may seem innocent with no intent for immodesty, but it can lead that way.
What do you think was the first thing that attracted Clinton to Monica? It started with a handshake, maybe a wink too, but the handshake was the first point of contact. If one refrains from shaking hands with the opposite sex, one creates a wall and establishes boundries.
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I have shook so many hands..and so have so many others and it didn't lead to anything...
THat's not to say that I disagree with certain rabbis who prohibit it...It's just a fence..Some get tempted more easily than others. OThers can control themselves better than others...so some need to build a fence 5 miles wide while others only need 10 feet.
Karen:
I don't care that it's supposed to be modest and virtuous. Every time an Orthodox refuses to shake my hand, or pass money from him to me to the driver in a cab, I get upset.
It just stinks of sexism. What, is he unable to contain himself sexually near every female that he can't touch them even for societal necessities? I think they underestimate how much a handshake can do. You might as well put women in burkas like the muslims because LOOKING at women can lead to impure thoughts.
Impure thoughts aren't pure evil like committing murder, it's just a way of seeing how you're attracted to people. People with common sense keep it to themselves and don't act on it.
This is the only thing that sets me off when dealing with orthodox men. Otherwise they're charming people.
AsheDina:
no, Jews SHOULD DEF GO TO PROMS! Show some of these people how wonderful your manners are, with nice clothing, etc. I went to 3 proms. ^-^
Gruzinit:
--- Quote from: Paulette on August 08, 2008, 02:17:52 PM ---no, Jews SHOULD DEF GO TO PROMS! Show some of these people how wonderful your manners are, with nice clothing, etc. I went to 3 proms. ^-^
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How true. I would be nice to see more chivalry these days.
Dr. Dan:
no senior proms should not be banned for Jews..it should be banned for losers who can't find girlfriends or vice versa.
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