Poll

Should they be banned for Jews?

Yes, all male-female interdancing except between a husband and wife in private should be banned.
10 (28.6%)
Yes, "proms" are not Jewish but general male-female interdancing should not be banned.
4 (11.4%)
No.
21 (60%)

Total Members Voted: 0

Author Topic: Should Jews Participate In Senior Proms?  (Read 64029 times)

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Offline q_q_

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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #150 on: October 28, 2008, 02:00:51 AM »
q_q_,

I thought you were supposed to be smart about these things. Are you not Orthodox? I think you are not being honest when you say that the reason dancing is not ok is just because it is crazy to you....

I didn't say that. Quote me.

Have you ever heard of the middah of Tzniut? Tzniut is usually translated as modesty. Here is the page from wiki:

yes

Maybe you are referring to reform Judaism but I am not familiar with that...

I didn't refer to it at all. You did, in your copy/paste.

Offline muman613

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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #151 on: October 28, 2008, 02:14:13 AM »
q_q_,

I thought you were supposed to be smart about these things. Are you not Orthodox? I think you are not being honest when you say that the reason dancing is not ok is just because it is crazy to you....

I didn't say that. Quote me.

Have you ever heard of the middah of Tzniut? Tzniut is usually translated as modesty. Here is the page from wiki:

yes

Maybe you are referring to reform Judaism but I am not familiar with that...

I didn't refer to it at all. You did, in your copy/paste.

Quote from: q_q_
More interestingly, given what dancing is..
a teasing simulation of sex , et.c. as I said.  I think it's an outrageous thing to do in public. (in private it would just be pathetic!)
And I wonder how anybody can defend it as normal or good or even OK.  I think it's crazy.  The only reason it isn't considered shameless is because it's a societal norm, and a crazy one.  If you do it, you should at least know that it's not quite right and you're not getting frowned on because it's a crazy society that we live in.

Did I make up that you said that dancing is not OK because you think it's crazy?

muman613
And you shall call out and say before the Lord, your God, "An Aramean [sought to] destroy my forefather, and he went down to Egypt and sojourned there with a small number of people, and there, he became a great, mighty, and numerous nation.
Devarim/Ki Tavo 26:5

Offline q_q_

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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #152 on: October 28, 2008, 06:31:57 AM »
Quote from: q_q_
More interestingly, given what dancing is..
a teasing simulation of sex , et.c. as I said.  I think it's an outrageous thing to do in public. (in private it would just be pathetic!)
And I wonder how anybody can defend it as normal or good or even OK.  I think it's crazy.  The only reason it isn't considered shameless is because it's a societal norm, and a crazy one.  If you do it, you should at least know that it's not quite right and you're not getting frowned on because it's a crazy society that we live in.

Did I make up that you said that dancing is not OK because you think it's crazy?

muman613




Muman, the fact that after all our "discussions", you choose to continue finding new issues to "argue" over with me over, is VERY selfish, because it's not good for the forum.

I didn't say you made anything up.

What you did was you mischaracterised my view.

(and you just miscategorised your own mistake, your miscategorisation of everything knows no limits)


Compare and Contrast what I said with your mischaracterisation of it.

I said
"
So there is little point in discussing jewish law. When nobody can even quote it, so far, not even with google, which is a joke way to study it anyway. And I assure you that this character has not studied jewish law.

More interestingly, given what dancing is..
a teasing simulation of sex , et.c. as I said.  I think it's an outrageous thing to do in public. (in private it would just be pathetic!)
And I wonder how anybody can defend it as normal or good or even OK.  I think it's crazy.  The only reason it isn't considered shameless is because it's a societal norm, and a crazy one.  If you do it, you should at least know that it's not quite right and you're not getting frowned on because it's a crazy society that we live in.
"

Here is what you said

"
I thought you were supposed to be smart about these things. Are you not Orthodox? I think you are not being honest when you say that the reason dancing is not ok is just because it is crazy to you....
"



You suggest that my reason suggests that I am not an orthodox jew..

You remove the argument I used.. and ridicule it to "you think it's crazy so it's not ok".   I never claimed to give an absolute law. I gave some premises and arguments.    I said myself that it's stupid to discuss jewish law without quoting it, nobody is, nobody has studied it, and it's ridiculous to do as you did, and state a position regarding it without quoting anything, without studying anything. And then I stated my argument.   Don't mischaracterise that as an argument of jewish law that you must accept without reason.

(just as you mischaracterise an opinion on a website as countering and overruling the plain text of tenach (esau thread).  Just as you mischaracterise an article making a humouress observation, as an article stating an absolute fact.  You have a LONG history of miscategorization and empty rhetoric, and that's just some of this month) 

Now if you want to respond to what I write, then don't restate it in your own words, your own empty rhetoric. We clearly cannot have these "discussions", because it doesn't work.

So I repeat.

Muman, the fact that after all our "discussions", you choose to continue finding new issues to "argue" over with me over, is VERY selfish, because it's not good for the forum.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2008, 07:03:26 AM by q_q_ »

Offline muman613

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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #153 on: October 28, 2008, 12:46:32 PM »
q_q_,

What I said about Esau is from Midrash and I have researched and asked Rabbis about it. I was correct in my understanding. Esau did work hard to impress his father that he was a righteous man and this is why Yitzak held Esau as his favorite. There is no backing down on this fact. You do know that there are many levels of understanding Torah and your way is not the only way. Once again I could quote you several sources which are back-stories for the story of Esau/Yaakov.

Regarding the issue of dancing it is also very clear that you are just being stubborn and not admiting that you were not clear about the Jewish position on inter-gender dancing. This is another area where asking a competent Rabbi would clear up the question instantaneously.

I do not ever imply that I am a Rabbi or a Poskin of Jewish questions. I am learning and growing but I also have a good memory {photographic} and a desire to be close to our G-d. If you disagree with me on Torah I think we can debate it civily.

muman613

PS: Maybe this question should be arbitrated by our friend Judeanoncapita on his radio show.

And you shall call out and say before the Lord, your God, "An Aramean [sought to] destroy my forefather, and he went down to Egypt and sojourned there with a small number of people, and there, he became a great, mighty, and numerous nation.
Devarim/Ki Tavo 26:5

Offline q_q_

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Re: Should senior "proms" be banned for Jews?
« Reply #154 on: October 28, 2008, 02:14:20 PM »
Muman, let's not have these discussions.  I know where they lead.

Stop initiating them and reininitiating them with me.

OK?