Should Jews Participate In Senior Proms?

[muman613]

And to the one that claims that intergender dancing is forbidden in jewish law. He won't quote where.  It is not a fact.  He could research on google though.

But the touchy dancing in public taking place at proms, is obviously considered forbidden by those that refuse to touch the opposite sex before marriage.

You may have seen a rabbi dancing with a woman, with a tissue in between.

So the one that thinks he knows better can tell him he is violating halacha. But he won't, I assure you. He wouldn't dare even quote halacha to him , or even to anybody here.

Those making claims about jewish law here, know nothing of it, and in some cases, only recently discovered its existance.   

So there is little point in discussing jewish law. When nobody can even quote it, so far, not even with google, which is a joke way to study it anyway. And I assure you that this character has not studied jewish law.

More interestingly, given what dancing is..
a teasing simulation of sex , et.c. as I said.  I think it's an outrageous thing to do in public. (in private it would just be pathetic!)
And I wonder how anybody can defend it as normal or good or even OK.  I think it's crazy.  The only reason it isn't considered shameless is because it's a societal norm, and a crazy one.  If you do it, you should at least know that it's not quite right and you're not getting frowned on because it's a crazy society that we live in.

q_q_,

I thought you were supposed to be smart about these things. Are you not Orthodox? I think you are not being honest when you say that the reason dancing is not ok is just because it is crazy to you....

Have you ever heard of the middah of Tzniut? Tzniut is usually translated as modesty. Here is the page from wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzniut

Tzniut or Tznius (also Tzeniut) (Hebrew: צניעות "modesty") is a term used within Judaism and has its greatest influence as a notion within Orthodox Judaism. It is used to describe both a character trait and a group of Jewish religious laws pertaining to conduct in general and especially between the sexes.

Humility is a paramount ideal within Judaism. Moses is referred to as "exceedingly humble, more than any man in the world" (Bamidbar 12:3). The Talmud states that humility is one of the characteristic traits of the Jewish people. (Talmud, Tractate Yevamot 79a.)
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Public gatherings and dancing

In Orthodox Judaism, men and women are separated at certain other public religious gatherings, especially where dancing is expected to take place. While Orthodox Jews agree that mixed dancing is prohibited and dancing requires separation, the extent to which separation is required under other circumstances varies within Orthodox Judaism. Some Haredi authorities require separation at celebratory meals and events such as weddings, although some claim noted Haredi Rabbi Moshe Feinstein held that such separation is not required except for the dancing component. Modern Orthodox authorities generally do not require separation except for dancing. [7] Where separation occurs, it is often includes setting up a temporary Mechitza (partition).

Conservative and Reform Judaism do not require separation between men and women at religious gatherings.

Maybe you are referring to reform Judaism but I am not familiar with that...

muman613

[q_q_]

q_q_,

I thought you were supposed to be smart about these things. Are you not Orthodox? I think you are not being honest when you say that the reason dancing is not ok is just because it is crazy to you....

I didn't say that. Quote me.

Have you ever heard of the middah of Tzniut? Tzniut is usually translated as modesty. Here is the page from wiki:

yes

Maybe you are referring to reform Judaism but I am not familiar with that...

I didn't refer to it at all. You did, in your copy/paste.

[muman613]

q_q_,

I thought you were supposed to be smart about these things. Are you not Orthodox? I think you are not being honest when you say that the reason dancing is not ok is just because it is crazy to you....

I didn't say that. Quote me.

Have you ever heard of the middah of Tzniut? Tzniut is usually translated as modesty. Here is the page from wiki:

yes

Maybe you are referring to reform Judaism but I am not familiar with that...

I didn't refer to it at all. You did, in your copy/paste.

More interestingly, given what dancing is..
a teasing simulation of sex , et.c. as I said.  I think it's an outrageous thing to do in public. (in private it would just be pathetic!)
And I wonder how anybody can defend it as normal or good or even OK.  I think it's crazy.  The only reason it isn't considered shameless is because it's a societal norm, and a crazy one.  If you do it, you should at least know that it's not quite right and you're not getting frowned on because it's a crazy society that we live in.

Did I make up that you said that dancing is not OK because you think it's crazy?

muman613

[q_q_]

More interestingly, given what dancing is..
a teasing simulation of sex , et.c. as I said.  I think it's an outrageous thing to do in public. (in private it would just be pathetic!)
And I wonder how anybody can defend it as normal or good or even OK.  I think it's crazy.  The only reason it isn't considered shameless is because it's a societal norm, and a crazy one.  If you do it, you should at least know that it's not quite right and you're not getting frowned on because it's a crazy society that we live in.

Did I make up that you said that dancing is not OK because you think it's crazy?

muman613

Muman, the fact that after all our "discussions", you choose to continue finding new issues to "argue" over with me over, is VERY selfish, because it's not good for the forum.

I didn't say you made anything up.

What you did was you mischaracterised my view.

(and you just miscategorised your own mistake, your miscategorisation of everything knows no limits)


Compare and Contrast what I said with your mischaracterisation of it.

I said
"
So there is little point in discussing jewish law. When nobody can even quote it, so far, not even with google, which is a joke way to study it anyway. And I assure you that this character has not studied jewish law.

More interestingly, given what dancing is..
a teasing simulation of sex , et.c. as I said.  I think it's an outrageous thing to do in public. (in private it would just be pathetic!)
And I wonder how anybody can defend it as normal or good or even OK.  I think it's crazy.  The only reason it isn't considered shameless is because it's a societal norm, and a crazy one.  If you do it, you should at least know that it's not quite right and you're not getting frowned on because it's a crazy society that we live in.
"

Here is what you said

"
I thought you were supposed to be smart about these things. Are you not Orthodox? I think you are not being honest when you say that the reason dancing is not ok is just because it is crazy to you....
"



You suggest that my reason suggests that I am not an orthodox jew..

You remove the argument I used.. and ridicule it to "you think it's crazy so it's not ok".   I never claimed to give an absolute law. I gave some premises and arguments.    I said myself that it's stupid to discuss jewish law without quoting it, nobody is, nobody has studied it, and it's ridiculous to do as you did, and state a position regarding it without quoting anything, without studying anything. And then I stated my argument.   Don't mischaracterise that as an argument of jewish law that you must accept without reason.

(just as you mischaracterise an opinion on a website as countering and overruling the plain text of tenach (esau thread).  Just as you mischaracterise an article making a humouress observation, as an article stating an absolute fact.  You have a LONG history of miscategorization and empty rhetoric, and that's just some of this month) 

Now if you want to respond to what I write, then don't restate it in your own words, your own empty rhetoric. We clearly cannot have these "discussions", because it doesn't work.

So I repeat.

Muman, the fact that after all our "discussions", you choose to continue finding new issues to "argue" over with me over, is VERY selfish, because it's not good for the forum.

[muman613]

q_q_,

What I said about Esau is from Midrash and I have researched and asked Rabbis about it. I was correct in my understanding. Esau did work hard to impress his father that he was a righteous man and this is why Yitzak held Esau as his favorite. There is no backing down on this fact. You do know that there are many levels of understanding Torah and your way is not the only way. Once again I could quote you several sources which are back-stories for the story of Esau/Yaakov.

Regarding the issue of dancing it is also very clear that you are just being stubborn and not admiting that you were not clear about the Jewish position on inter-gender dancing. This is another area where asking a competent Rabbi would clear up the question instantaneously.

I do not ever imply that I am a Rabbi or a Poskin of Jewish questions. I am learning and growing but I also have a good memory {photographic} and a desire to be close to our G-d. If you disagree with me on Torah I think we can debate it civily.

muman613

PS: Maybe this question should be arbitrated by our friend Judeanoncapita on his radio show.

[q_q_]

Muman, let's not have these discussions.  I know where they lead.

Stop initiating them and reininitiating them with me.

OK?