Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Edited Title: Chaim and I agree on this ... as per this weeks Ask JTF.
Lubab:
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on February 10, 2008, 09:26:20 PM ---
--- Quote from: Daniel on February 10, 2008, 09:17:14 PM ---I think when it comes to the topic of euthanasia, we need to differentiate between "passive" and "active" euthanasia. Passive euthanasia would be something like cutting off someone's feeding tube. I'm not sure a DNR would be considered any time of euthanasia, but I suppose that could also fall under the confines of passive euthanasia. Active euthanasia would be the act of active killing, sort of like what Dr. Kevorkian does. I don't remember exactly what Chaim said and in what context he said it. But I would be surprised that Chaim would be in favor of this since he was very much outspoken against the Terri Shaivo case which was an example of passive euthanasia. Perhaps Chaim was referring to evil people who deserve to die and that they should all save us the suffering by just killing themselves. I don't know :-\
--- End quote ---
Cutting off a feeding tube is starving someone to death and is murder. It took her more than a week to die from it. But cutting artificial life support is different because the person dies right away because it is only keeping them alive artificially. Someone with a feeding tube is alive on their own but they need to eat to stay alive just like a healthy person, they just need help eating so they need the tube since they can't eat on their own.
Is this correct Lubab?
--- End quote ---
There are different opinions about this. It's not so simple. I'm not an expert in those issues.
Dr. Dan:
--- Quote from: Skippy on February 10, 2008, 05:50:45 PM ---
--- Quote from: lubab on February 10, 2008, 01:24:58 PM ---I was just listening to Ask JTF and heard Chaim say that in a terminally ill person's case where there is very little chance of recovery, that suicide is justified, or ending the life in some way.
Each moment of life is precious, and taking away a life a moment too soon is murder.
--- End quote ---
Lubab , I for one 1000%agree with Chaim. I do not see it as murder, I see it as a act of kindness.
Being in a position which I have done so, I can state that its not a horrible act against a person its a blessing.
The choice is never made lightly, the family and person concerned are fully aware.
You might find that a strange thing to say but, even if a person is in a coma, they are still fully aware of what is going on.
I have the strongs belief due to I have assisted and been apart of this many times, that it is NOT against any code of conduct.
We swear an oath to maintain life, we also swear an oath to relieve suffering.
And thats what we do. To purposely take a life in that case is far from easy, it never gets easier. The Toll on that care giver is huge.
Every time you do it a little piece of your heart and soul dies with that person, if you think there is no price to an action you are clearly wrong.
And if that makes me a Murderer so be it.
--- End quote ---
With this post you reminded me of the time we had to "sacrifice" our lab rats and lab mice after we were done with our experimentation. Killing mammals emotionally, is hard to do... I can't imagine what euthenasia woudl feel like. All know it woudl be such a horrible feeling to be the one invovled in making that decision or even doing it. :(
OdKahaneChai:
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on February 10, 2008, 11:19:18 PM ---
--- Quote from: Skippy on February 10, 2008, 05:50:45 PM ---
--- Quote from: lubab on February 10, 2008, 01:24:58 PM ---I was just listening to Ask JTF and heard Chaim say that in a terminally ill person's case where there is very little chance of recovery, that suicide is justified, or ending the life in some way.
Each moment of life is precious, and taking away a life a moment too soon is murder.
--- End quote ---
Lubab , I for one 1000%agree with Chaim. I do not see it as murder, I see it as a act of kindness.
Being in a position which I have done so, I can state that its not a horrible act against a person its a blessing.
The choice is never made lightly, the family and person concerned are fully aware.
You might find that a strange thing to say but, even if a person is in a coma, they are still fully aware of what is going on.
I have the strongs belief due to I have assisted and been apart of this many times, that it is NOT against any code of conduct.
We swear an oath to maintain life, we also swear an oath to relieve suffering.
And thats what we do. To purposely take a life in that case is far from easy, it never gets easier. The Toll on that care giver is huge.
Every time you do it a little piece of your heart and soul dies with that person, if you think there is no price to an action you are clearly wrong.
And if that makes me a Murderer so be it.
--- End quote ---
With this post you reminded me of the time we had to "sacrifice" our lab rats and lab mice after we were done with our experimentation. Killing mammals emotionally, is hard to do... I can't imagine what euthenasia woudl feel like. All know it woudl be such a horrible feeling to be the one invovled in making that decision or even doing it. :(
--- End quote ---
Don't equate animals with humans...
Dr. Dan:
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on February 10, 2008, 07:33:41 PM ---Lubab is right, the Halacha is Halacha. And suffering cant be an excuse (G-d save us from these things). If the Halacha says that the patient cant be killed (murdered) then its forbidden even if they are in pain. And if this comes up, then it was decreed by G-d to happen this way (may G-d save us from such things).
--- End quote ---
the only thing that i have ever learned in regards to this is that it is NOT permitted to end someone's life. However, to withdraw the medicine in permitted in certain cases. And to relieve pain obviously.
Dr. Dan:
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on February 10, 2008, 11:21:49 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on February 10, 2008, 11:19:18 PM ---
--- Quote from: Skippy on February 10, 2008, 05:50:45 PM ---
--- Quote from: lubab on February 10, 2008, 01:24:58 PM ---I was just listening to Ask JTF and heard Chaim say that in a terminally ill person's case where there is very little chance of recovery, that suicide is justified, or ending the life in some way.
Each moment of life is precious, and taking away a life a moment too soon is murder.
--- End quote ---
Lubab , I for one 1000%agree with Chaim. I do not see it as murder, I see it as a act of kindness.
Being in a position which I have done so, I can state that its not a horrible act against a person its a blessing.
The choice is never made lightly, the family and person concerned are fully aware.
You might find that a strange thing to say but, even if a person is in a coma, they are still fully aware of what is going on.
I have the strongs belief due to I have assisted and been apart of this many times, that it is NOT against any code of conduct.
We swear an oath to maintain life, we also swear an oath to relieve suffering.
And thats what we do. To purposely take a life in that case is far from easy, it never gets easier. The Toll on that care giver is huge.
Every time you do it a little piece of your heart and soul dies with that person, if you think there is no price to an action you are clearly wrong.
And if that makes me a Murderer so be it.
--- End quote ---
With this post you reminded me of the time we had to "sacrifice" our lab rats and lab mice after we were done with our experimentation. Killing mammals emotionally, is hard to do... I can't imagine what euthenasia woudl feel like. All know it woudl be such a horrible feeling to be the one invovled in making that decision or even doing it. :(
--- End quote ---
Don't equate animals with humans...
--- End quote ---
oh no! I don't mean to. What i'm saying is when i had to sacrifice the lab mice and lab rats, it was hard....I cannot even fathom what it woudl feel like if it were an actual human being!
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