Author Topic: An attempt to make McCain look good  (Read 2683 times)

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Offline Dr. Dan

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An attempt to make McCain look good
« on: February 10, 2008, 03:53:47 PM »
The following is an email created and sent to me and supported by mainstream Jews who love Israel but are not hardliners. Below is my response:
what are your opinions?

Senator John McCain's brother on The Jews & Israel.There is a lot of worry popping up in the media just now -- 'Can Israel Survive?' Don't worry about it. It relates to something that Palestinians, the Arabs, and perhaps most Americans don't realize -- the Jews are never going quietly again. Never. And if the world doesn't come to understand that, then millions of Arabs are going to die. It's as simple as that.Throughout the history of the world, the most abused, kicked-around race of people have been the Jews. Not just during the holocaust of World War II, but for thousands of years. They have truly been 'The Chosen People' in a terrible and tragic sense.The Bible story of Egypt's enslavement of the Jews is not just a story, it is history, if festooned with theological legend and heroic epics. In 70 A.D. the Romans, which had for a long time tolerated the Jews -- even admired them as 'superior' to other vassals -- tired of their truculent demands for independence and decided on an early 'Solution' to the Jewish problem. Jerusalem was sacked and reduced to near rubble, Jewish resistance was pursued and crushed by the implacable Roman War Machine -- see 'Masada'. And thus began The Diaspora, the dispersal of Jews throughout the rest of the world.Their homeland destroyed, their culture crushed, they looked desperately for the few niches in a hostile world where they could be safe. That safety was fragile, and often subject to the whims of moody hosts. The words 'pogrom', 'ghetto', and 'anti-Semitism' co me from this treatment of the first mono-theistic people. Throughout Europe, changing times meant sometimes tolerance, sometimes even warmth for the Jews, but eventually it meant hostility, then malevolence. There is not a country in Europe or Western Asia that at one time or another has not decided to lash out against the children of Moses, sometimes by whim, sometimes by manipulation.Winston Churchill calls Edward I one of England's very greatest kings. It was under his rule in the late 1200's that Wales and Cornwall were hammered into the British crown, and Scotland and Ireland were invaded and occupied. He was also the first European monarch to set up a really effective administrative bureaucracy, surveyed and censused his kingdom, established laws and political divisions. But he also embraced the Jews.Actually Edward didn't embra ce Jews so much as he embraced their money. For the English Jews had acquired wealth -- understandable, because this people that could not own land or office, could not join most of the trades and professions, soon found out that money was a very good thing to accumulate. Much harder to take away than land or a store, was a hidden sock of gold and silver coins. Ever resourceful, Edward found a way -- he borrowed money from the Jews to finance imperial ambitions in Europe, especially France. The loans were almost certainly not made gladly, but how do you refuse your King? Especially when he is 'Edward the Hammer'. Then, rather than pay back the debt, Edward simply expelled the Jews. Edward was especially inventive -- he did this twice. After a time, he invited the Jews back to their English homeland, borrowed more money, then expelled them again.Most people do not know that Spain was one of the early entrants into The Renaissance. People from all over the world came to Spain in the late medieval period. All were welcome -- Arabs, Jews, other Europeans. The University of Salamanca was one of the great centers of learning in the world -- scholars of all nations, all fields came to Salamanca to share their knowledge and their ideas. But in 1492, Ferdinand and Isabella, having driven the last of Moors from the Spanish Shield, were persuaded by the righteous fundamentalists of the time to announce 'The Act of Purification'. A series of steps were taken in which all Jews and Arabs and other non-Christians were expelled from the country, or would face the tools and the torches of The Inquisition. From this 'cleansing' come the Sephardic Jews -- as opposed to the Ashkenazis of Eastern Europe. In Eastern Europe,the sporadic violence and brutality against Jews are common knowledge. 'Fiddler' without the musi c and the folksy humor. At times of fury, no accommodation by the Jew was good enough, no profile low enough, no village poor enough or distant enough.From these come the near-steady flow of Jews to the United States. And despite the disdain of the Jews by most 'American' Americans, they came to grab the American Dream with both hands, and contributed everything from new ideas of enterprise in retail and entertainment to becoming some of our finest physicians and lawyers. The modern United States, in spite of itself, IS The United States in part because of its Jewish blood.Then the Nazi Holocaust -- the corralling, sorting, orderly eradication of millions of the people of Moses. Not something that other realms in other times didn't try to do, by the way, the Germans were just more organized and had better murder technology.I stood in the center of Dachau for an entire day, about 15 years ago, trying to comprehend how this could have happened. I had gone there on a side trip from Munich, vaguely curious about this Dachau. I soon became engulfed in the enormity of what had occurred there nestled in this middle and working class neighborhood.How could human beings do this to other human beings, hear their cries, their pleas, their terror, their pain, and continue without apparently even wincing? I no longer wonder. At some times, some places, ANY sect of the human race is capable of horrors against their fellow man, whether a member of the Waffen SS, a Serbian sniper, a Turkish policeman in 1920's Armenia, a Mississippi Klansman. Because even in the United States not all was a Rose Garden. For a long time Jews had quotas in our universities and graduate schools. Only so many Jew s could be in a medical or law school at one time. Jews were disparaged widely. I remember as a kid Jewish jokestold without a wince - 'Why do Jews have such big noses?'Well, now the Jews have a homeland again. A place that is theirs. And that's the point. It doesn't matter how many times the United States and European powers try to rein in Israel, if it comes down to survival of its nation, its people, they will fight like no lioness has ever fought to save her cubs. They will fight with a ferocity, a determination, and a skill, that will astound us.And many will die, mostly their attackers, I believe. If there were amacabre historical betting parlor, my money would be on the Israelis to be standing at the end. As we killed the kamikazes and the Wehrmacht soldaten of World War II, so will the Israelis kill their suicidal attackers, until there are not enough to torment them.The irony goes unnoticed -- while we are hammering away to punish those who brought the horrors of last September here, we restrain the Israelis from the same retaliation. Not the same thing, of course -- We are We, They are They. While we mourn and seethe at September 11th, we don't notice that Israel has a September 11th sometimes every day.We may not notice, but it doesn't make any difference. And it doesn't make any difference whether you are pro-Israeli or you think Israel is the bully of the Middle East. If it comes to where a new holocaust looms -- with or without the concurrence of the United States and Europe -- Israel will lash out without pause or restrai nt at those who would try to annihilate their country.The Jews will not go quietly again.Joe McCain



Wishful thinking Joe, but the majority of Israelis, to me, don't seem to feel this way. The govt they choose think that if they give land, they will get peace. Instead, with this appeasement, they get more war. Those who VERY strongly condemn the Israeli government for doing this, get silenced and thrown in jail. We have to stop being so nice and show more outrage, including towards the Israeli government, whether it is Likud or Labor, that wants to continue these insane policies for giving land for a piece of paper. Joe McCain says the Jews will never go quietly. What he really should have said was, the Jews will never go (period!). Proceed with every presidential candidate with caution, Democrat or Republican, and don't rely on America to save Israel. We should rely on ourselves with Gd's help. The goal isn't necessarily whether any country supports Israel or not. What our first goal should be is not to finance the enemies of Israel and America by buying their oil. The most realistic way to do this is to choose an American president who will finance technology that will make oil worthless instead of finding a way to make it cheaper.   



My two cents, a lot of Jews are not ready for JTF's stance.  So for all of you out there who are gong ho and like to speak what your heart, you're not going to win them over that way.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Joe Gutfeld

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Re: An attempt to make McCain look good
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2008, 05:36:47 PM »
The only way McCain will look good to me is if he picks Rudy as his running mate.

Offline Daniel

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Re: An attempt to make McCain look good
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2008, 09:11:00 PM »
The only way McCain will look good to me is if he picks Rudy as his running mate.

No, actually the only way McCain would ever look good is with some major reconstructive surgery. Even then, that would be questionable.

Offline Ari

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Re: An attempt to make McCain look good
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2008, 09:24:30 PM »
Well, he's better than Hitlery and Barack Hussein Obama! O0

Offline Eliezer Ben Avraham

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Re: An attempt to make McCain look good
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2008, 09:27:43 PM »
Well, he's better than Hitlery and Barack Hussein Obama! O0
yea, but thats not saying much
KAHANE TZADAK!

Offline Eliezer Ben Avraham

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Re: An attempt to make McCain look good
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2008, 09:30:40 PM »
There are morons on Kahane.org who think McCain is the best Republican on Israel.


Huckabbee is best on Israel, Romney isn't that great but he is ok
KAHANE TZADAK!

Offline RationalThought110

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Re: An attempt to make McCain look good
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2008, 11:09:35 PM »
There are morons on Kahane.org who think McCain is the best Republican on Israel.




What's their argument?

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: An attempt to make McCain look good
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2008, 11:15:06 PM »
The way I look at is that Huckabee shoudl be the guy we support until he drops out.  He seems to be the best in ending oil independence. 
But if it is McCain versus Hitlery or Obama, my vote goes to McCain (sorry CF).

And I woudl be extremely happy if he picked a good VP even though the VP has no say in anything.

But all I hvae to say is, Gd forbid, it is Hitlery or Obama.  We will definately be asking for trouble with them two.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: An attempt to make McCain look good
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2008, 01:29:42 AM »
McCain--by far the worst on Israel, he praises Jimmy Carter's "apartheid" treatment of Israel
Huckster--a phony on Israel, he says that Israel has kicked Arabs off their land without reason
Romney--neutral on Israel, certainly the best of the major candidates, not great but not bad either
Hunter, Keyes, Tancredo--great on Israel, but zero chance from the start :(

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: An attempt to make McCain look good
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2008, 01:52:22 AM »

My two cents, a lot of Jews are not ready for JTF's stance.  So for all of you out there who are gong ho and like to speak what your heart, you're not going to win them over that way.

They are ready.  There is just no viable option.  Likud is the closest thing to an opposition, right-wing group, and it is Netanyahu-run with the same leftist tendencies as Olmert, Barak and all the rest, as Moshe Feiglin sits inside and tries to take over from within.  If he could run his own party without getting banned, he could have gotten much mainstream support by now.  But Likud would win overwhelmingly in an election if they had one today, and that is even with people's reservations about Netanyahu and after what he did last time.  That shows a certain level of desperation. 

Remember, Rabbi Kahane's support was growing in Israel; that's precisely why they banned him.  He was due for at least 12-15 seats, and if he wasn't murdered by those cretans his support would only have grown in his exile since the govt that banned him continued to field failures instead.  It is OUTSIDE of Israel where our movement is not as palatable because these people are ivory tower academics and liberal/reform Jews who have no idea what an Arab is like except what the textbook tells them or who they saw in their intro to economics class, some son of a saudi prince that came here on visa.  And it is American Jews who get the Arab propaganda stuffed down their throats in universities, the dishonest fakestinian narrative and sympathize with all the crocodile tears about their 'suffering' and 'oppression' and plight of fakestinians.  Israel has its leftists too but most are not so stupid to think there isn't also a real danger.  It is Jews in Israel who know the threats they face certainly more than those in America.  The utter failure of kadima, a supposedly "centrist" party is precisely the opportunity to gain a strong rightwing coalition in response but sadly the option is not out there, so people will resort to Likud.

Offline RationalThought110

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Re: An attempt to make McCain look good
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2008, 03:03:52 AM »
McCain--by far the worst on Israel, he praises Jimmy Carter's "apartheid" treatment of Israel
Huckster--a phony on Israel, he says that Israel has kicked Arabs off their land without reason
Romney--neutral on Israel, certainly the best of the major candidates, not great but not bad either
Hunter, Keyes, Tancredo--great on Israel, but zero chance from the start :(


McCain was against sending troops to Lebanon in the 80's.  So that was a bad policy that he didn't support. 

In addition to McCain's support for harming Serbia, what else has he done or said that has made him the worst of the GOP candidates on Israel? 

Tell me factual information. 

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: An attempt to make McCain look good
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2008, 03:18:15 AM »
Why would being against stopping the Muslim Lebanese genocide of Lebanese Christians be a good position to take?  The problem with our govt's leaders is that they have been all too willing to bow down to and sell out to the threat of Islam.

Offline RationalThought110

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Re: An attempt to make McCain look good
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2008, 03:27:06 AM »
Why would being against stopping the Muslim Lebanese genocide of Lebanese Christians be a good position to take?  The problem with our govt's leaders is that they have been all too willing to bow down to and sell out to the threat of Islam.


Because Israel was helping to stop it.  Reagan approved sending US troops, which ended up helping the PLO. 

http://www.jtf.org/america/america.why.bush.will.not.defeat.islamic.terrorism.htm


Go down to the 1970's and then 1983. 

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: An attempt to make McCain look good
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2008, 03:29:37 AM »
Oh, well yeah, I didn't mean to help the PLO.  Did people know that was what Reagan intended before he actually did it?

Offline RationalThought110

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Re: An attempt to make McCain look good
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2008, 05:10:32 AM »
Oh, well yeah, I didn't mean to help the PLO.  Did people know that was what Reagan intended before he actually did it?


I'm not sure.