To Moderators/Admins- Why the hate is allowed?

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Chaimfan and Dr. Dan are both so right. Ovadia Yosef is such a dangerous person, he sits in a govt which not only puts jews in danger with their policies but righteous gentiles the world over as well. Just cause someone knows torah doesn't mean anything. Their have been viscous jew haters in history that have learned torah just to cause trouble. Learning torah means nothing unless you internalize it. Most Lakewood, Boro Park and Williamsburg jews just live in fancy homes and bash Israel simply because they know that going there would mean they have to fight for something. They would rather just live in their comfortable homes here than have to go to Israel and fight so they make themselves feel better by attacking Israel. How can you compare these jews to yesha jews who risk their lives for their homeland. Tzvi, people here aren't buying this garbage so keep it out of the forum. And believe me, saving one life is like saving the world according to judaism so if you are going to say that learning all day is better than saving lives, I pity you.

You first make Aliya, and then talk about other people.

[DownwithIslam]

Chaimfan and Dr. Dan are both so right. Ovadia Yosef is such a dangerous person, he sits in a govt which not only puts jews in danger with their policies but righteous gentiles the world over as well. Just cause someone knows torah doesn't mean anything. Their have been viscous jew haters in history that have learned torah just to cause trouble. Learning torah means nothing unless you internalize it. Most Lakewood, Boro Park and Williamsburg jews just live in fancy homes and bash Israel simply because they know that going there would mean they have to fight for something. They would rather just live in their comfortable homes here than have to go to Israel and fight so they make themselves feel better by attacking Israel. How can you compare these jews to yesha jews who risk their lives for their homeland. Tzvi, people here aren't buying this garbage so keep it out of the forum. And believe me, saving one life is like saving the world according to judaism so if you are going to say that learning all day is better than saving lives, I pity you.

You first make Aliya, and then talk about other people.

Lakewood is an anti Zionist yeshiva. They couldn't care how many jews are killed as long as bombs don't go off in their own beis medrash. The fact that the original Rabbi Kotler publicly belittled other torah scholars who were even greater than him is certainly a blemish on them. They are a bunch of cold jews who care only about their own institutions. They are similar to shas in this regard so you probably would like them but they hate you if you are sefardic.(I think tzvi is sefardic but I may be wrong about that)  Regardless of whether or not you support lubavitch, the fact  that Kotler got up and made fun of the lubavitcher rebbe when he came to america is vile. This is the same kind interjewish relations that his followers employ today.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Chaimfan and Dr. Dan are both so right. Ovadia Yosef is such a dangerous person, he sits in a govt which not only puts jews in danger with their policies but righteous gentiles the world over as well. Just cause someone knows torah doesn't mean anything. Their have been viscous jew haters in history that have learned torah just to cause trouble. Learning torah means nothing unless you internalize it. Most Lakewood, Boro Park and Williamsburg jews just live in fancy homes and bash Israel simply because they know that going there would mean they have to fight for something. They would rather just live in their comfortable homes here than have to go to Israel and fight so they make themselves feel better by attacking Israel. How can you compare these jews to yesha jews who risk their lives for their homeland. Tzvi, people here aren't buying this garbage so keep it out of the forum. And believe me, saving one life is like saving the world according to judaism so if you are going to say that learning all day is better than saving lives, I pity you.

You first make Aliya, and then talk about other people.

Lakewood is an anti Zionist yeshiva. They couldn't care how many jews are killed as long as bombs don't go off in their own beis medrash. The fact that the original Rabbi Kotler publicly belittled other torah scholars who were even greater than him is certainly a blemish on them. They are a bunch of cold jews who care only about their own institutions. They are similar to shas in this regard so you probably would like them but they hate you if you are sefardic.(I think tzvi is sefardic but I may be wrong about that)  Regardless of whether or not you support lubavitch, the fact  that Kotler got up and made fun of the lubavitcher rebbe when he came to america is vile. This is the same kind interjewish relations that his followers employ today.

 I dont know if they are zionist or anti-zionist, whatever. Even if they are anti-zionist, soo- what? that doesn't mean you are allowed to smear them with all the usual hate.
 Yes I am Sefardi, and my cousin lives in Lakewood and doesn't have a problem with the Jews their. They are very nice people to her, her family and to other people and other Jews.
 

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

tell me which Jews do you like?
 You will say the Yesh Jews and Chabad, okay, but then whats your criteria for who is a good Jew? Only one who supports the zionist ideals? And according to you all else are what?

[Dominater96]

Hacham Ovadia Yosef Shlita
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1270038.stm

http://www.ety.com/HRP/jewishstudies/witofyosef.htm -notice this line-

"Rabbi Yosef, the former Sefaradi Chief Rabbi, who recedntly said that Arabs were snakes and should be annihilated, told his followers that he had a dream on Friday.

Rabbi Ben-Zion Mutzafi, one of his followers, said that Rabbi Yosef had told him that in his dream "at the Western Wall plaza and in all of Jerusalem there were only Jews ... There were no non-Jewish foreigners there. They had already been expelled [before the coming of the Messiah]".

Hacham Ovadia has stated that whenever Jerusalem is on the table in negotiations, Shas should pull out immediatly. He isnt all caught up in the politics. People tell him what they want him to hear. Hacham Ovadia is learning torah, and writing about 18 hours a day know, and isnt looking at the politics. It is very possible people are lieing to him.

http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2008/02/is-rabbi-ovadia-yosef-being-told-truth.html

Rabbi Mazuz who is a huge talmid hacham, and someone whom me and people I am friendly with have spoken to, says that Hacham Ovadia is being lied to.

[DownwithIslam]

Chaimfan and Dr. Dan are both so right. Ovadia Yosef is such a dangerous person, he sits in a govt which not only puts jews in danger with their policies but righteous gentiles the world over as well. Just cause someone knows torah doesn't mean anything. Their have been viscous jew haters in history that have learned torah just to cause trouble. Learning torah means nothing unless you internalize it. Most Lakewood, Boro Park and Williamsburg jews just live in fancy homes and bash Israel simply because they know that going there would mean they have to fight for something. They would rather just live in their comfortable homes here than have to go to Israel and fight so they make themselves feel better by attacking Israel. How can you compare these jews to yesha jews who risk their lives for their homeland. Tzvi, people here aren't buying this garbage so keep it out of the forum. And believe me, saving one life is like saving the world according to judaism so if you are going to say that learning all day is better than saving lives, I pity you.

You first make Aliya, and then talk about other people.

Lakewood is an anti Zionist yeshiva. They couldn't care how many jews are killed as long as bombs don't go off in their own beis medrash. The fact that the original Rabbi Kotler publicly belittled other torah scholars who were even greater than him is certainly a blemish on them. They are a bunch of cold jews who care only about their own institutions. They are similar to shas in this regard so you probably would like them but they hate you if you are sefardic.(I think tzvi is sefardic but I may be wrong about that)  Regardless of whether or not you support lubavitch, the fact  that Kotler got up and made fun of the lubavitcher rebbe when he came to america is vile. This is the same kind interjewish relations that his followers employ today.

 I dont know if they are zionist or anti-zionist, whatever. Even if they are anti-zionist, soo- what? that doesn't mean you are allowed to smear them with all the usual hate.
 Yes I am Sefaradi, and my cousin lives in Lakewood and doesn't have a problem with the Jews their. They are very nice people to her, her family and to other people and other Jews.
 

Tzvi, talking to you is like teaching a shvartza math. You are not showing any form of wisdom by labeling legit criticisms of lakewood jews as smears. The only smearing taking place is your smearing of chabad. I laid out certain dark truths about the history of Beth Medrash Govoha and its founders. It was founded on hate, intolerance of their fellow jews and an overall heinous attitude towards people who differed from them even slightly. It is not a secret that the Lakewood institution despises most other jews. Tzvi you are [censored] people off cause you can't refute the points and you just label everything as a smear.

[Dominater96]

Tzvi, once again you attack the messenger instead of the message. Since you can't refute what I said of you, you fall back on calling me goy. You cannot cope with the fact that the vast majority of religious Jews on this forum (Yacov, Judeanoncapta, JDL4ever, lubab, etc.) do not agree with you in any way, shape or form whatsoever. You can't worm your way out of this. You attacked DownwithIslam and the Lubavitcher movement both. I understand that you have a longstanding beef with DwI (that you largely created), but how did the Lubavitch rebbe offend you?

More importantly, how are your Lakewood/Borough Park Satmar friends serving as a light on a hill unto this world? What are they doing for this world, much less their fellow Jews, in the comfort of their NYC mansions? Prove to me that they have done one thing G-d has called them to.

Please do me just one favor--ask your rabbi what he thinks of you calling fellow Jews "dogs".

calling you a goy was not an attack. I was telling you that its not for you to get involved and understand thelogical beliefs within Judaism. I cant argue and bring proofs to you about religious writings etc. because your religion is different.
  I didn't attack the Lubavitcher Rebbe, that was just a whole different discussion, of which dwi then brought it up here, in order to try to put me down and say that im extremly agains't Lubavitch.
   About the religius communities you are asking about- They are learning Torah, doing Mitzvot and doing Hessed. If you dont understand that accomplishment, fine, but in the eyes of G-d its a hugg accomplishment for Jews to do such things. If you see 2 Jews, 1 learning Torah and another being a doctor for example and treating people. The one who is learning Torah is greater. The value of Torah is very great, you and most Jews in this generation dont understand.
 And not all Jews have mansions as you say. Their are many rich Jews, and their are also poor Jews.

If one is studying torah and talmud all day and is doing nothing else for the world is certainly not greater than a  doctor who might be saving lives.

Yes he is. He has written about 30 Halacha books, and a commentary on some of the gemara. He is learning about 18 hours a day, and doing more for Jews then anyone else in the world.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Tzvi, once again you attack the messenger instead of the message. Since you can't refute what I said of you, you fall back on calling me goy. You cannot cope with the fact that the vast majority of religious Jews on this forum (Yacov, Judeanoncapta, JDL4ever, lubab, etc.) do not agree with you in any way, shape or form whatsoever. You can't worm your way out of this. You attacked DownwithIslam and the Lubavitcher movement both. I understand that you have a longstanding beef with DwI (that you largely created), but how did the Lubavitch rebbe offend you?

More importantly, how are your Lakewood/Borough Park Satmar friends serving as a light on a hill unto this world? What are they doing for this world, much less their fellow Jews, in the comfort of their NYC mansions? Prove to me that they have done one thing G-d has called them to.

Please do me just one favor--ask your rabbi what he thinks of you calling fellow Jews "dogs".

There is no bigger sign of ignorance than your equating all of Lakewood with Satmar.

[Dominater96]

DWI what is your opinion about Rabbi Moshe Feinstein?

[DownwithIslam]

Hacham Ovadia Yosef Shlita
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1270038.stm

http://www.ety.com/HRP/jewishstudies/witofyosef.htm -notice this line-

"Rabbi Yosef, the former Sefaradi Chief Rabbi, who recedntly said that Arabs were snakes and should be annihilated, told his followers that he had a dream on Friday.

Rabbi Ben-Zion Mutzafi, one of his followers, said that Rabbi Yosef had told him that in his dream "at the Western Wall plaza and in all of Jerusalem there were only Jews ... There were no non-Jewish foreigners there. They had already been expelled [before the coming of the Messiah]".

Hacham Ovadia has stated that whenever Jerusalem is on the table in negotiations, Shas should pull out immediatly. He isnt all caught up in the politics. People tell him what they want him to hear. Hacham Ovadia is learning torah, and writing about 18 hours a day know, and isnt looking at the politics. It is very possible people are lieing to him.

http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2008/02/is-rabbi-ovadia-yosef-being-told-truth.html

Rabbi Mazuz who is a huge talmid hacham, and someone whom me and people I am friendly with have spoken to, says that Hacham Ovadia is being lied to.

Are you kidding, if we in NYC found out about the happening is Israel, are you telling me that Mr. Yosef can't? I don't care what Rabbi Yosef dreams about, I care what he does when he is awake. If he is dreaming about livng without arabs, then why is he in a govt which carried out the 2005 expulsion. How could he be in a govt headed by smolmert who was instrumental in ethnic cleansing of jews. Dominator96, your link has no factual grounds.

[DownwithIslam]

You both have not refuted one argument I have made yet you have thrown around lots of insults and smeared many people.

[Shlomo]

Ok... enough.

DownWithIslam, I have known you a long time and we have traded many excellent and intelligent posts. Please... please... do not curse any Orthodox Jews. This is a VERY serious thing. It is a subject that Chaim has talked about several times on his shows. It is obvious that we disagree with many Rabbis' opinions (sometimes deeply) but [1] we are warned never to insult a Torah scholar under punishment from Hashem (which is a very scary thing) and [2] this will hurt JTF very seriously since you are one of our long term posters that so many look up to and respect.

Tzvi, you are a righteous man with more Torah knowledge than I could wish to have. I respect you deeply and our theology is very similar. I know you are trying to stand up for what is right and that your intention is for the respect of the Creator, the Jewish people, and the Torah. There could be no greater thing. Let's try not to make public posts in the general section against long term members. This also hurts JTF.

I really hope that you two can make amends. I would like to see both of you make peace with one another and work together so that JTF can make a difference and stop the evil that hurts this world. You are both so intelligent. This is a noble cause and without the support from posters like yourselves, how could it be possible? I need you both... but the fighting, cursing, and hateful language has to stop.

Please, understand that I am posting this out of respect for you.

[Dominater96]

Actually we know things that are happening in Israel before the Israeli citizens do. And you know thingfs because of the internet, TV, newspapers, etc. Hacham Ovadia doesnt own a TV, computer, read newspapers. Any second he has he is learning torah, or writing. I know it is hard for you to believe but its true all he does is learn torah. People come and give him the news about politics and that is what he believes. He is being mislead. He has stated numerous times that if Jerusalem is on the table Shas should quit.

[DownwithIslam]

Ok... enough.

DownWithIslam, I have known you a long time and we have traded many excellent and intelligent posts. Please... please... do not curse any Orthodox Jews. This is a VERY serious thing. It is a subject that Chaim has talked about several times on his shows. It is obvious that we disagree with many Rabbis' opinions (sometimes deeply) but [1] we are warned never to insult a Torah scholar under punishment from Hashem (which is a very scary thing) and [2] this will hurt JTF very seriously since you are one of our long term posters than many look up to and respect.

Tzvi, you are a righteous man with more Torah knowledge than I could wish to have. I respect you deeply and our theology is very similar. I know you are trying to stand up for what is right and that your intention is for the respect of the Creator, the Jewish people, and the Torah. There could be no greater thing. Let's try not to make public posts in the general section against long term members. This also hurts JTF.

I really hope that you two can make amends. I would like to see both of you make peace with one another and work together so that JTF can make a difference and stop the evil that hurts this world. You are both so intelligent. This is a noble cause and without the support from posters like yourselves, how could it be possible? I need you both... but the fighting, cursing, and hateful language has to stop.

Please, understand that I am posting this out of respect for you.

Shlomo, I really think that if you look through the history of this and other threads, you will always see that Tzvi starts the personal attacks. Their is a reason that JDL4EVER and all the regular posters came to my defense. I do not think that we are equally guilty because all the fight are always started by others.

[DownwithIslam]

Shlomo, discuss the issue with Jdl4ever because I understand that you might not have the time to look through all the threads to sort things out. jdl4ever is familiar with the situation at hand and can thoroughly fill you in. Thanks for your concern and I appreciate all you do.

[DownwithIslam]

Also Shlomo, I see that you were concerned with my cursing of orthodox jews. I would check into that because last I knew, Tzvi ben roshell  wished that my hell would come fast. Not that it means anything coming from him but I would certainly look into disciplining that as it was a direct hit on another member of the forum. Thanks.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Ok... enough.

DownWithIslam, I have known you a long time and we have traded many excellent and intelligent posts. Please... please... do not curse any Orthodox Jews. This is a VERY serious thing. It is a subject that Chaim has talked about several times on his shows. It is obvious that we disagree with many Rabbis' opinions (sometimes deeply) but [1] we are warned never to insult a Torah scholar under punishment from Hashem (which is a very scary thing) and [2] this will hurt JTF very seriously since you are one of our long term posters that so many look up to and respect.

Tzvi, you are a righteous man with more Torah knowledge than I could wish to have. I respect you deeply and our theology is very similar. I know you are trying to stand up for what is right and that your intention is for the respect of the Creator, the Jewish people, and the Torah. There could be no greater thing. Let's try not to make public posts in the general section against long term members. This also hurts JTF.

I really hope that you two can make amends. I would like to see both of you make peace with one another and work together so that JTF can make a difference and stop the evil that hurts this world. You are both so intelligent. This is a noble cause and without the support from posters like yourselves, how could it be possible? I need you both... but the fighting, cursing, and hateful language has to stop.

Please, understand that I am posting this out of respect for you.

  Thanks Shlomo, you are a wonderful and insightful person. I agree with what you say allways. I will listin to and follow what you are saying, but please make sure that their isn't a breach from the other side.

[DownwithIslam]

Also, dominator96 claimed Rabbi Yosef doesn't know what is going on with giving away jerusalem because the rabbi doesn't have a pc or a newspaper. That is about to be refuted by me. In the jerusalem post article I am linking everyone to, Gideon Saar who is a big guy in likud just met with RABBI Yosef to bring him up to date and tell him to leave the coalition. This happened today and the rabbi isn't leaving. You cannot say he doesn't know. I believe it is wrong to prevent people from criticizing this man. His actions are murdering jews which is something so evil. Here is the aritcle.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1203343699265&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[DownwithIslam]

Also Shlomo, the more I read your response above the more I am angered. It's either you haven't been following Tzvi's actions or you are just simply making a mistake. Their is a reason people have come out supporting me. He has slandered me and chabad. Being kind to the cruel will make you be cruel to the kind.

[Shlomo]

DownwithIslam, don't be angry. There is nothing to be angry about. You know how fond I am of you. It was never my intention to hurt you... either of you.

No one... and I mean no one... should slander Chabad. JTF has support from Chabad and they are loved by JTF. This is very important.

You are correct. I haven't had the ability to sort through everything because I've been working on a project. I just want you two to stop fighting. It hurts me to see this. That's all. If I have made a mistake in any way, then it is my own fault.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

1 2 3 its over. As long as dwi- adheres to what Shlomo has written, I have no problem with him.

[DownwithIslam]

DownwithIslam, don't be angry. There is nothing to be angry about. You know how fond I am of you. It was never my intention to hurt you... either of you.

No one... and I mean no one... should slander Chabad. JTF has support from Chabad and they are loved by JTF. This is very important.

You are correct. I haven't had the ability to sort through everything because I've been working on a project. I just want you two to stop fighting. It hurts me to see this. That's all. If I have made a mistake in any way, then it is my own fault.

Shlomo, I understand. I knew that you didn't have time and that you wanted to stop the fighting. I totally understand it and you are right about that. I am not mad at you and thanks again for everything. When you get a chance just check out some of the past threads and discuss it with jdl4ever and you will hear the truth. I just wanted to clarify because it would be a grave injustice to blame the wrong person or blame people equally when their was not an equal crime.

[DownwithIslam]

I agree with Shlomo.

Yacov, what do you agree with shlomo about? I agree that Shlomo is a wonderful, kind person but I dont agree that I did anything wrong. I was wondering what your take is on this whole issue.

[DownwithIslam]

I agree that fighting looks bad for us all but we just have to get to the root of the problem by dealing with the instigators and smearers. Blaming people equally when the crime is not equal certainly isn't right. I hope we never have to fight anymore but it is very hard to hold yourself back when we are talking about people who endanger jewish lives or people who support those who endanger jewish lives.

[Shlomo]

It is always difficult not to fight when we care so deeply. Sometimes, we just can't help it. We are human.

I was very glad to see you too make amends somewhat. I know you are both probably still upset with each other but I wish others had the maturity that you two display.

You both really made my night and I couldn't be more proud to be a member of this forum.