Kahane and Nile to Euphrates

[EagleEye]

Someone here is telling me that Kahane didn't support Israel from the Nile to the Euphrates.  That would surprise me, because JTF seems to be a Kahanist organization, and JTF seems to support that.
http://www.israelforum.com/board/showpost.php?p=264384&postcount=15
Is he right?  I support Israel as a Jewish State at least its current size and probably bigger with arrangements being made, but personally don't go that far.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

I think that what would be done is if the arab states attack Israel then the territory won would be made Jewish territory and not given back.

[FULL METAL JACKET]

I've asked this question before.

Biblical Israel isn't from the "nile to the Euprhates" so I don't see how a Jewish state can be carved out of that.

[FULL METAL JACKET]

Check out these maps:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Early-Historical-Israel-Dan-Beersheba-Judea.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Levant_830.svg

[JTFFan]

Thanks for the maps

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Nile to Euphrates is the promise which will happen, didn't happen yet. (I believe after Moshiah).

[EagleEye]

Did Kahane himself have this viewpoint, or did later Kahanists take it up?

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Did Kahane himself have this viewpoint, or did later Kahanists take it up?

I dont remember reading it in his writings (if yes it would probably be found in OR HARA'AYON- The Jewish Idea)

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "...Biblical Israel isn't from the "nile to the Euprhates" so I don't see how a Jewish state can be carved out of that..."

Biblical Israel was in more ways than one a failure to obey the very commands which G-d set forth in His Covenant with the Jewish People.

Our failure to obey Him resulted in our Exile from the Land...precisely as He promised us would happen should we fail to fulfill the Law.

JTF intends to rectify those shortcomings.

p.s.--one should understand that "The Land of Israel" should not be confused with the present day "State" of Israel.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I've asked this question before.

Biblical Israel isn't from the "nile to the Euprhates" so I don't see how a Jewish state can be carved out of that.

They're not talking about the Biblical Kingdoms, they are talking about what land was promised.  Regardless of what was conquered in previous attempts, we know full well what the Promised Land is, who it belongs to, and whom He gave it to. 

[Christian Zionist]

http://jpsbible.com/genesis/15.htm

Please read Genesis 15:18

"In that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying: 'Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates"

G-d gave that promise to Abraham.  So it is G-d's will for the Jews to liberate all the land from the Nile to the Euphrates. 

In my opinion the land west of river Jordan is the central core of the promised land. G-d did not permit Moses to cross the river Jordan to enter into Canaan but Moses was still within the boundaries given in Genesis 15:18.  So I think G-d considers the area west of Jordan as the central core of Israel and wants to expand Israel to possess the rest of the areas as the Israelis obey His commands.

[Ari]

http://jpsbible.com/genesis/15.htm

Genesis 15:18

In that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying: 'Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates

G-d gave that promise to Abraham.  So it is G-d's will for the Jews to liberate all the land from the Nile to the Euphrates. 

In my opinion the land west of river Jordan is the central core of the promised land. G-d did not permit Moses to cross the river Jordan to enter into Canaan but Moses was still within the boundaries given in Genesis 15:18.  So I think G-d considers the area west of Jordan as the central core of Israel and wants to expand Israel to possess the rest of the areas as the Israelis obey His commands.

I suppose Jimmy Carter, Pat Buchanan, and Barack Babalama I'm sure, all pious men, have yet to read this.

[Christian Zionist]

Jimmy Carter, Pat Buchanan, and Barack Babalama, George Bushulla and other "pious" men use the Bible only for their personal gains. They have no intention to OBEY what the Bible says.

[FULL METAL JACKET]

I've asked this question before.

Biblical Israel isn't from the "nile to the Euprhates" so I don't see how a Jewish state can be carved out of that.

They're not talking about the Biblical Kingdoms, they are talking about what land was promised.  Regardless of what was conquered in previous attempts, we know full well what the Promised Land is, who it belongs to, and whom He gave it to. 

Ask yourself how realistic it is to take present day land from Jordan, Iraq and Syria.

[Christian Zionist]

I've asked this question before.

Biblical Israel isn't from the "nile to the Euprhates" so I don't see how a Jewish state can be carved out of that.

They're not talking about the Biblical Kingdoms, they are talking about what land was promised.  Regardless of what was conquered in previous attempts, we know full well what the Promised Land is, who it belongs to, and whom He gave it to. 

Ask yourself how realistic it is to take present day land from Jordan, Iraq and Syria.

Well, had Israel expelled all Arabs from the restored territories after the 1967 six day war they could have set a stage to recover Jordan, Iraq and parts of Syria.  They missed it.  But as Tzvi pointed out one day it will be fulfilled.

[FULL METAL JACKET]

I've asked this question before.

Biblical Israel isn't from the "nile to the Euprhates" so I don't see how a Jewish state can be carved out of that.

They're not talking about the Biblical Kingdoms, they are talking about what land was promised.  Regardless of what was conquered in previous attempts, we know full well what the Promised Land is, who it belongs to, and whom He gave it to. 

Ask yourself how realistic it is to take present day land from Jordan, Iraq and Syria.

Well, had Israel expelled all Arabs from the restored territories after the 1967 six day war they could have set a stage to recover Jordan, Iraq and parts of Syria.  They missed it.  But as Tzvi pointed out one day it will be fulfilled.

Militarily it just wasn't possible, no way they could of. But it's irrelevant, they never even intended to conquer all those lands in 1967.

[Masha]

Ask yourself how realistic it is to take present day land from Jordan, Iraq and Syria.

Zionism is about having a vision, not about thinking in terms of what's "realistic."

[kahaneloyalist]

Herzl used to say realists never accomplish anything

[FULL METAL JACKET]

Herzl used to say realists never accomplish anything

Doesn't make any sense 

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I've asked this question before.

Biblical Israel isn't from the "nile to the Euprhates" so I don't see how a Jewish state can be carved out of that.

They're not talking about the Biblical Kingdoms, they are talking about what land was promised.  Regardless of what was conquered in previous attempts, we know full well what the Promised Land is, who it belongs to, and whom He gave it to. 

Ask yourself how realistic it is to take present day land from Jordan, Iraq and Syria.

I wasn't talking about what you deem "realistic," or rational, I was talking about Divine promise.  What exactly is the land that G-d gave to us.  We know what it is.  Eventually it will be Jewish.  One way or another. Probably lots of miracle involved.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I've asked this question before.

Biblical Israel isn't from the "nile to the Euprhates" so I don't see how a Jewish state can be carved out of that.

They're not talking about the Biblical Kingdoms, they are talking about what land was promised.  Regardless of what was conquered in previous attempts, we know full well what the Promised Land is, who it belongs to, and whom He gave it to. 

Ask yourself how realistic it is to take present day land from Jordan, Iraq and Syria.

Well, had Israel expelled all Arabs from the restored territories after the 1967 six day war they could have set a stage to recover Jordan, Iraq and parts of Syria.  They missed it.  But as Tzvi pointed out one day it will be fulfilled.

Militarily it just wasn't possible, no way they could of. But it's irrelevant, they never even intended to conquer all those lands in 1967.

Of course not, nor would THEY in the future, because leaders of Israel right now are faithless men of little principle and even less Jewish identity.

[New Yorker]

Herzl used to say realists never accomplish anything

Doesn't make any sense 

Sure it makes sense, the "realists" were the ones that said "If man was meant to fly, he would have been born with wings", ponder that the next time you're in an airport.

[FULL METAL JACKET]

Herzl used to say realists never accomplish anything

Doesn't make any sense 

Sure it makes sense, the "realists" were the ones that said "If man was meant to fly, he would have been born with wings", ponder that the next time you're in an airport.

Nonsense, if anything the realists were the ones who made the planes. 

The realists also said the earth isn't flat, and that the sun is the center of the solar system and look at the reaction that got. "Truth is first ridiculed, then violently opposed, and then it is accepted as self-evident."

[Ultra Requete]

Israel can beat Jordanian, Egiptian and Syrian armies combined; they did once they can do this again. have a little faith in G-d Allmighty and in IDF Oh realist.

[Tzvi Ben Roshel1]

Did Kahane himself have this viewpoint, or did later Kahanists take it up?

This is the viewpoint of Judaism and Rabbi Kahane merely taught genuine Judaism.

I dont think that Rav Kahane taught that. I belive that "Nile to Euphrates" is a prophecy, a promise (for the future) and not a command. Thats why settling Kanaan (what it was called at the time) was a Milhemet Mitzva and beyond that was a Milhemet Reishut if they wanted to wage a war for whatever reason. Also first their are specific territories that have to be fully conquered (however you say that word which means to occupy, etc.) and then you go for other land if the need and want + the right approval is given (by Sanhedrin and King working together).
 Now other territories beyond that isn't a Milhemet Mitzva unless if it is a "Pikuah Nefesh" issue and the need arises to have a military presence their in order to save Jewish lives.