Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Pathetic speech my dumb Satmur ghetto Rabbi gave
q_q_:
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on March 19, 2008, 10:46:53 PM ---
--- Quote from: q_q_ on March 19, 2008, 07:17:45 PM ---I think he would agree with me that he is not saying we can identify amalek.
He is criticising your style .. of mixing psak and drash or midrash, like it is one thing.
I think it is bad.. (mixing midrash with psak implies taking midrash literally, and also, not taking into account that sometimes midrashim can disagree). It is very unacademic, messy thinking. People reading what you write/say will end up mixing up sources and have no textual basis, and that will happen to you too if it hasn`t already.
--- End quote ---
When did I bring up a Midrash?
And if you claim that this "midrash" is not true, and that we CAN'T identify Amalek today, then how exactly are we supposed to fulfill the Mitzvah? Once again, I'm quite curious...
--- End quote ---
i said it was bad to mix pshat and drash or midrash.
meaning.
pshat and (drash or midrash)
you mixed pshat and drash.
you can forget the word midrash.
When and how we fulfill or do not fulfill the mizva of killing amalek, is not the point.
You know very well that WHEN we cannot identify them, we cannot fulfill the mitzva of killing them.
Just as we have mitzot that only be fulfilled in certain conditions. And without those conditions, we cannot fulfill it
Really.. if logic is too much for you then forget it.
And if something else is stopping you from getting it, then admit it and see a psychiatrist.
If you are still curious as to how we should fulfill the mitzva then don`t worry about it.. You don`t at the moment. And If we ever identify amalek, I`ll make sure you are informed. I`ll send you a private message on the JTF forum, bearing the good news.
q_q_:
--- Quote from: Tzvi Ben Roshel on March 19, 2008, 11:12:40 PM ---<snip>
eruv rav itself is fighting agains't you.
--- End quote ---
at least they abide by the eruv ;-)
OdKahaneChai:
--- Quote from: q_q_ on March 19, 2008, 11:17:47 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on March 19, 2008, 10:46:53 PM ---
--- Quote from: q_q_ on March 19, 2008, 07:17:45 PM ---I think he would agree with me that he is not saying we can identify amalek.
He is criticising your style .. of mixing psak and drash or midrash, like it is one thing.
I think it is bad.. (mixing midrash with psak implies taking midrash literally, and also, not taking into account that sometimes midrashim can disagree). It is very unacademic, messy thinking. People reading what you write/say will end up mixing up sources and have no textual basis, and that will happen to you too if it hasn`t already.
--- End quote ---
When did I bring up a Midrash?
And if you claim that this "midrash" is not true, and that we CAN'T identify Amalek today, then how exactly are we supposed to fulfill the Mitzvah? Once again, I'm quite curious...
--- End quote ---
i said it was bad to mix pshat and drash or midrash.
meaning.
pshat and (drash or midrash)
you mixed pshat and drash.
you can forget the word midrash.
When and how we fulfill or do not fulfill the mizva of killing amalek, is not the point.
You know very well that WHEN we cannot identify them, we cannot fulfill the mitzva of killing them.
Just as we have mitzot that only be fulfilled in certain conditions. And without those conditions, we cannot fulfill it
Really.. if logic is too much for you then forget it.
And if something else is stopping you from getting it, then admit it and see a psychiatrist.
If you are still curious as to how we should fulfill the mitzva then don`t worry about it.. You don`t at the moment. And If we ever identify amalek, I`ll make sure you are informed. I`ll send you a private message on the JTF forum, bearing the good news.
--- End quote ---
Ok, so it seems that we have a situation here where I'm Machmer, and you're Mekel. And that's fine. But don't tell me that I'm wrong.
takebackourtemple:
--- Quote from: q_q_ on March 19, 2008, 11:19:02 PM ---at least they abide by the eruv ;-)
--- End quote ---
In law they they might. In spirit, they are traitors. Just because they came from a Hassidic movement does not make them great. The Satmar Rebbe YS"Z should have been stripped of his rabbinical ordination for treason against Israel and false prophesy since he let his people think of him as a g-d.
q_q_:
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on March 19, 2008, 11:20:08 PM ---
--- Quote from: q_q_ on March 19, 2008, 11:17:47 PM ---
--- Quote from: OdKahaneChai on March 19, 2008, 10:46:53 PM ---
--- Quote from: q_q_ on March 19, 2008, 07:17:45 PM ---I think he would agree with me that he is not saying we can identify amalek.
He is criticising your style .. of mixing psak and drash or midrash, like it is one thing.
I think it is bad.. (mixing midrash with psak implies taking midrash literally, and also, not taking into account that sometimes midrashim can disagree). It is very unacademic, messy thinking. People reading what you write/say will end up mixing up sources and have no textual basis, and that will happen to you too if it hasn`t already.
--- End quote ---
When did I bring up a Midrash?
And if you claim that this "midrash" is not true, and that we CAN'T identify Amalek today, then how exactly are we supposed to fulfill the Mitzvah? Once again, I'm quite curious...
--- End quote ---
i said it was bad to mix pshat and drash or midrash.
meaning.
pshat and (drash or midrash)
you mixed pshat and drash.
you can forget the word midrash.
When and how we fulfill or do not fulfill the mizva of killing amalek, is not the point.
You know very well that WHEN we cannot identify them, we cannot fulfill the mitzva of killing them.
Just as we have mitzot that only be fulfilled in certain conditions. And without those conditions, we cannot fulfill it
Really.. if logic is too much for you then forget it.
And if something else is stopping you from getting it, then admit it and see a psychiatrist.
If you are still curious as to how we should fulfill the mitzva then don`t worry about it.. You don`t at the moment. And If we ever identify amalek, I`ll make sure you are informed. I`ll send you a private message on the JTF forum, bearing the good news.
--- End quote ---
Ok, so it seems that we have a situation here where I'm Machmer, and you're Mekel. And that's fine. But don't tell me that I'm wrong.
--- End quote ---
machmir-strict, mekel-lenient
It is not a matter of being strict or lenient..
It is a matter of you taking a drash literally.
You seem to think we are fulfilling the mitzva(obligation) of killing amalek, by studying torah or "removing doubts".
Do you think that torah study is still the way to fulfill the obligation to kill amalek even after we identify them? I am sure you would not claim that.. That would be to the left of lenient!
It is a matter of you reading drash literally just as you read pshat.
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