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Ramchal on the study of Kabbalah
Tzvi Ben Roshel1:
Ramchal on the study of Kabbalah
Quotes from Igrot Ramchal 19
Let us not forget that this is the same Ramchal that wrote Miselas Yesharim
-He satisfies his lofty soul only with the grass of the field, which is the Pshat level of Torah. He makes his life bitter with Kal Vechomer and Gezarah Shavah, on which it is written "they made their life miserable with hard work".
-Is this, [learning only Pshat] good in the eyes of G-D?
-What pleasure does G-D have in all the big calculations and many conclusions, while there is not one person who strengthens himself to stand in the mysteries of G-D and to reveal the light of his Glory.
-Who ever has a sharp mind should analyze at the most for only an hour or two in Halacha. Whoever is not sharp should not study it at all, rather he should spend his time with Midrashim and Kabbalah, the inside of the Torah.
-Why would one leave the main learning [Kabbalah] and go to the side issues [Pshat].
-A person does not have in the next world only what he brought into his mind in this world. Who ever knows the inside of Torah will enjoy the inner light. Who ever does not, will not get to enjoy it at all.
-The abomination occurring in our times, that most of the wise men of Yisroel have already strayed far from the truth and the sweet light, the glory of G-D our master. They go after calculations of nothingness. They lean after power and honor.
Quotes from Yarim Moshe (page 221)
-The Ari was very justified when he said the main occupation of a man should only be in the mysteries of the Torah.
-Who ever does not have a sharp mind should spend his day learning Kabbalah and not Pshat. This is the true way and it definitely pleases G-D. Even though this is not accepted by most rabbis, there is no way other then this.
-In the Zohar Shir Hasherim it says "Those who mastered only Pshat, after they die they are removed from all upper realms."
jdl4ever:
I very very strongly disagree and think that he doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I believe truth is the exact opposite of what he writes. P'shat is the core of the Torah and what one should spent the most time studying. The commentaries should be studied only after one has mastered the Psat. And one with a weak mind should spend more time studying the Pshat and not even go into Kabbalah at all since it will make him crazy. Many Beit Medrish Yeshiva Student's I've seen are completely screwed up inside their heads since they never learn Psat or even went over Nach one time even. They just study Talmud all the time, and completely don't have any clue what's going on. Those who take this advise are not correct in my opinion, and are setting themselves up to pervert the Torah.
q_q_:
funnily enough, to understand the ramchal properly, requires a mind like a razor blade
The logic master loves the ramchal, and has a 40 part lectures series on the RAMCHAL`s major philosophical work "Derech HaShem - The way of G-d"
http://www.dovidgottlieb.com/Rabbi_Gottlieb_Tapes.html
q_q_:
--- Quote from: DanBenNoah on March 23, 2008, 04:03:16 PM ---In order to believe in Christian doctrines, someone must completely ignore logic and just depend on the "Holy Spirit" to enlighten them with a special knowledge as to why Torah says something it really doesn't say--and end up practicing idolatry.
In order to believe in Hasidism/Kabbalah, someone must completely ignore logic and depend on the fact that kabbalist proponent rabbis are just so dog gone smart that they somehow have a special knowledge as to why Jews should believe things that are contrary to what the Torah says--and end up practicing idolatry.
Same thing, different package.
--- End quote ---
You are completely ignorant.
There is nothing illogical in the idea that G-d has told us of a mystical dimension to the universe. And that we have a tradition on these matters. And that some rabbis have had heavenly teachers that have taught them these things.
Judaism is full of rituals, that only have any meaning if there is a mystical realm that these rituals impact.
No kabbalists are idolators, unless it is correct that some small group of lubavitchers believe their dead rabbi is G-d. And they are a tiny number that only existed since around 1990!
Most great rabbis .. The RAMBAN, the vilna gaon, the arizal , Rabbi Yosef Kairo, almost all of them, believe in kabbalah, and many of them have been great kabbalists.
Now.. Not all rabbis have been. Some following the RAMBAM very strictly or those trying to go back to just what we have in the talmud.. they may reject it. Or any new mysticism or anything new since the talmud. That's fine..
They may be right , Kabbalah may be wrong. But an large % of great rabbis have been master kabbalists, and it is certainly not idolatry.
Why don't you entertain us and tell us what aspect you think is idolatry?
jdl4ever:
--- Quote from: DanBenNoah on March 23, 2008, 04:03:16 PM ---In order to believe in Christian doctrines, someone must completely ignore logic and just depend on the "Holy Spirit" to enlighten them with a special knowledge as to why Torah says something it really doesn't say--and end up practicing idolatry.
In order to believe in Hasidism/Kabbalah, someone must completely ignore logic and depend on the fact that kabbalist proponent rabbis are just so dog gone smart that they somehow have a special knowledge as to why Jews should believe things that are contrary to what the Torah says--and end up practicing idolatry.
Same thing, different package.
--- End quote ---
There is a lot of truth in what you are writing about. But I'm not going to talk about it publicly. Although you are a bit too negative. Not all Kabbalah is illogical and there is a lot of good things about Chassidim.
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