Author Topic: THE BATTLE OF CUITO CUANAVALE - Cuba's Mythical Victory  (Read 22164 times)

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Offline AriseSouthAfrica

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THE BATTLE OF CUITO CUANAVALE - Cuba's Mythical Victory
« on: March 24, 2008, 03:35:42 PM »
Cuba's Mythical Victory:

http://www.rhodesia.nl/cuito.htm

Also see:

South Africa: Military History:
http://www.rhodesia.nl/samilhis.htm

Rhodesia: Military History:
http://www.rhodesia.nl/rhomil.htm
Let G_d arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him. (Psalm 68:1)

Boeregeneraal

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Re: THE BATTLE OF CUITO CUANAVALE - Cuba's Mythical Victory
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2008, 08:42:25 AM »
it's unbelievable the wild accusations Cuba throws out!!! But then again, lying propoganda is something communism excells at  ::)

Offline AriseSouthAfrica

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Re: THE BATTLE OF CUITO CUANAVALE - Cuba's Mythical Victory
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2008, 12:36:36 PM »
Yes! But the reason I posted this is because the ANC and Zuma have been making the claim over the weekend that the SADF lost this battle to the Cubans and to the (pathetic) MK!
What a joke! As if MK could have held back the SADF!! :::D
Let G_d arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him. (Psalm 68:1)

Offline AriseSouthAfrica

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Re: THE BATTLE OF CUITO CUANAVALE - Cuba's Mythical Victory
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2008, 07:54:30 AM »
The Angolan War: Cuito Cuanavale - The ANC never mention the times they were SLAUGHTERED

by Jan Lamprecht

I just got an email from a General who was in the SADF. I am awaiting his confirmation before I publish it. But you will see what he and other Generals are planning to do to set the record straight.

The General then raised The BATTLE OF LOMBA RIVER. How many of you have heard of that? THE BATTLE OF LOMBA RIVER is one I mentioned last night. The General mentions it too. There was a SLAUGHTER there...

The General then says, that at Techipa (and this one is new to me), they also decimated the Cubans, MPLA, ANC and other trash.

The ANC is no doubt trying to cling to the coat-tails of their allies because the ANC have no victories themselves - except when they send their criminals at night to murder our farmers or to gang-rape, torture and murder old people and women in this country.

The General told me that the ANC (as usual), only tells one half of their twisted little story. They DARE NOT tell the full story.

The General also raises the issue of Castro's execution of General Oacha.

I have asked the General if I may publish part of his email as well as if he can give me some more answers - with just some very basic facts - regarding the battles of Lomba river and Techipa.

I read about Lomba river in Fred Brigland's book. As I recall, he said that The Battle of Lomba River was the biggest slaughter EVER.

I'll grab the book and browse through it and find some details for you.

Its like I say folks, the ANC talks their trash talk... but whites must stop bending down and bowing down to these clowns, liars, tricksters and fools. Their battle was won for them, in Washington and London. They did bugger all.

Ian Smith's THE GREAT BETRAYAL theme for Rhodesia is exactly true for SOUTH AFRICA and NAMIBIA. Same thing folks. We were sold down the river by our "friends" who couldn't run fast enough to the ANC to jump into bed with them.

I sometimes wonder what the Russians think of this. I've come to believe the Russians had no morals, but when I watch the West's behaviour I'm starting to ask myself whether a bloody Communist doesn't in the end have more honour than these Western Liberal types? The West will sell their mother's for a buck it seems to me! The West only cares about money. But is that really the right thing to do? Aren't some things more important than money? Sure, money translates into POWER... and money translates into MILITARY POWER...

But doesn't THE TRUTH also carry a value? To me, the truth does have a value - a more lasting value. In fact, I think the truth is more important than anything else. The truth also, unlike money, has a value that lasts for thousands of years. Isn't that more important? Why build a Financial Empire on a house of cards? Why build on a foundation of lies? Won't it bite you one day? I think so.

Anyhow, its time we exposed the garbage the ANC writes about the battle WHICH THEY HARDLY EVEN FEATURED IN BUT CLAIM A PORTION OF THE GLORY OF. How pathetic is that? How many forces did the ANC actually have in any of these battles? But they want to claim the glory? Jacob Zuma went to Angola the other day... but he was sitting in Mozambique at the time of the war.

The ANC need to find a victory, because in reality they won nothing. Everything these idiots and clowns have is what was handed to them on a plate by everyone else. In fact, its amazing it still took them so bloody long. I mean, think about it: The ANC was helped by the world's 2 biggest SUPER-POWERS in order to "defeat" a handful of whites!!! Isn't that the most pathetic thing imaginable? I can't think of something that underscores their complete and absolute uselessness as much. In fact, its even worse than that. They needed all of Europe too (which in time will become the next Super-Power).

 by Jan Lamprecht
Let G_d arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him. (Psalm 68:1)

Boeregeneraal

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Re: THE BATTLE OF CUITO CUANAVALE - Cuba's Mythical Victory
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2008, 08:39:58 AM »
Man I love Jan Lamprecht!!! He's a hero, he writes fantastically and he's spot on!

This sounds so interesting!

Thank you AriseSA...btw, when are you usualy on skype? Ive been keeping a look out for you, but your never online. My skype is [email protected]

Offline AriseSouthAfrica

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Re: THE BATTLE OF CUITO CUANAVALE - Cuba's Mythical Victory
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2008, 09:05:34 AM »
Dankie Boeregeneraal!

I agree, Jan Lamprecht is amazing!!

I'm not on Skype too often, but I'm sure we'll link up soon! I'm usually online most nights, will make sure Skype is also online!
Let G_d arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him. (Psalm 68:1)

Offline AriseSouthAfrica

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Re: THE BATTLE OF CUITO CUANAVALE - Cuba's Mythical Victory
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2008, 06:31:38 AM »
Angolan War: Cuito Cuanavale Battles - Did Cuba win? An SADF General said this to me...
By: Jan Lamprecht


I spoke to an SADF General who for now, prefers not to be named. He sent me some comments and quotes. I am forbidden for now, from saying more, except that there will be much more to tell on this matter some time in the not too distant future.

Jamba mentioned below is the capital of Jonas Savimbi's forces - who was fighting the MPLA (FAPLA) Govt of Angola.

So here is what the SADF General had to say:-
Everybody seems to ignore the total wipe out of the FAPLA / CUBAN / RUSSIAN / SWAPO / MK force at the Lomba river just prior to Quito. The intention was to occupy Jamba and they were destroyed long before getting even close. They also refuse to refer to a similar result at Techipa where another force was totally destroyed when they tried to draw the attention of SADF forces away from developments at the Lomba.

They are also very quiet about the fact that the Cuban commanding general was killed by Cuban firing squad. How a victorious commander could face such an outcome, boggles the mind.

Once Castro has been laid to rest, the real truth about the Cuban experience in Africa (and elsewhere) will surface from Cuba itself, and the truth will eventually triumph exactly in the fashion it always does.

The late Lt Gen Deon Ferreira (a colonel at the time and SADF force commander in South East Angola) was quoted in the Paratus (SADF publication) of March 1989 after the Lomba Battle as follows:

"If defeat for South Africa meant the loss of 31 men, three tanks, five armoured vehicles and three aircraft, then we'd lost. If victory for Fapla and the Cubans meant the loss of 4,600 men, 94 tanks, 100 armoured vehicles, 9 aircraft and other Soviet equiptment valued at more than a billion Rands, then they'd won."

I hope this helps a bit. Unfortunately I do not have the Techipa and Quito stats at hand. Fact of the matter is that Quito was nothing more than the end of the Lomba operations. To the best of my recollection, Foreign Affairs did not allow us to cross the Quito River.
By: Jan Lamprecht


Angolan War: Cuito Cuanavale - Was it an MPLA & ANC Victory? The 12 months that changed Africa...
By: Jan Lamprecht

Today inbetween other things I grabbed my copy of Fred Brigland's "The War for Africa" I incorrectly said the book is "The Battle for Africa". The book is actually "The War for Africa" and it focusses specifically on those really wild times. He regards it as the "12 months that changed Africa".

Fred Brigland is a British journalist. He interviewed many South Africans who fought there. I will take selected pages from his book and put them online for you to read.

The SADF General mentions that the SADF was given orders not to go across the river - by Foreign Affairs. Its too bad that Pik Botha who is probably the one who gave the order does not say anything.

In Fred Brigland's book I see also that the South African Airforce had an order NOT TO ENGAGE IN AIR TO AIR COMBAT in case it escalates the battles. According to Fred only 2 MIGs were shot down in Angola in air-to-air combat and both by the same SAAF Pilot! Many planes were shot down by ground fire.

Fred's book starts by describing how John Stockwell from the CIA played a big role in getting S.Africa involved. It states that the Russians gave Angola US$1 billion in aid ANNUALLY! (I think that is economic aid - not sure). I do know they shipped US$1 billion in WEAPONS to them during the war. The Russians were also giving Cuba massive AID. Cuba has a small army really and is pretty poor. The Russians actually organised and paid for the whole war, but the Cubans were their "mercenaries" if you will. The Russians initially organised 11,000 Cubans to go into Angola and they sponsored them to the tune of US$400 million. The CIA and USA decided to counter them. According to US Law, the CIA could only approve a maximum of US$32 million in arms for any one project. And so that is what they gave.

The book states clearly that the Cubans were the aggressors. The Cubans were not there "because South Africa was there". The Cubans started arriving in 1974 before South Africa was involved.

Then the USA "hired" South Africa to then counter-balance the Cubans.

Fred Brigland describes the battles in quite a bit of detail, but I think you will be seeing some more detailed accounts coming from the South African side. That is another topic. Fred ends by examining quite deeply, who "won" and what the game was.

In the book it mentions that there was a big logistics problem for SA. So when SA fought inside Angola, the forces were not that large.

General Jannie Geldenhuys the commander of the Army and who was deeply involved in these operations is quoted as making some very strong statements on the matter. Geldenhuys stated that in terms of OBJECTIVES, the South African objective was to prevent the Cubans and FAPLA from capturing Jamba and wiping out UNITA and thereby winning the Angolan Civil war. (This is very broadly what I was saying in earlier posts). General Geldenhuys states that the SADF only fought these limited battles in order to prevent the destruction of UNITA. In that, they succeeded completely. The Cuban & FAPLA objective was to get to Jamba. They never got there. So from the point of view of who accomplished their own strategic objectives - the SADF did and the Cubans did not.

You will recall that I mentioned that the SADF had plenty more untapped firepower. Fred Brigland quotes General Geldenhuys on the matter of what would happen if the Cubans entered northern Namibia. General Geldenhuys stated that they were DELIGHTED at the thought and very much hoping it would happen. Why? Because it would shorten their supply lines and allow them to fight from closer to their own permanent bases. They would then be able to draw on MASSES of their own SADF troops instead of relying on UNITA. General Geldenhuys very much wanted them to come into Nambia because then the SADF would have had a chance to wipe them out completely. Keep in mind the long supply lines the Cubans would have had by then!!

The battle the General mentioned, of Techipa, was actually the last big battle of the war. It is that battle that was interpreted by many, including me, as a massive offensive right at the end of the war. In Fred Brigland's book, he describes it as a TRAP! That last battle was actually one initiated by the SADF. Fred explained that the Cubans had a lot of troops and were virtually untouchable in their bases in Techipa. So the SADF planned operations to lure them out. The idea was to lure the Cubans into a strategic trap. They edged forwards until they could fire heavy artillery into their base and their HQ. They fired G5 shells into their HQ for 6 hours and caused tremendous damage and casualties. Then other Ratel groups also went probing. The whole point was to lure out the Cuban tanks and others so that they could run into prepared lines of Ratels, infantry and tanks. That was the last battle of the war. It was during this battle that the MIGS actually did some good fighting and bombing and bombed Ruacana and a dam - where engineers had built special ramps so that the Tanks could go over them. The SADF caused a lot of casualties for the enemy in the last battle. Later during the peace talks the Cuban officers told the South African how they feared "Those f*cking guns" (the G5 artillery). I won't go into more detail on this battle. Its pretty complex. But yes, this was the last battle of the war and the Cubans were made to bleed.

Fred mentions that the Cubans had a whole ego thing going and did not want to be seen to lose, and the South Africans realised this could be a problem at the talks. Furthermore, UNITA was also very pissed when the SADF fought in Angola and started claiming victories. So, South Africa had a policy of keeping quiet about their battles and victories for the sake of UNITA and even Cuba so that talks would be easier. After all, all the SADF wanted was the Cubans to leave Angola.

The ANC's version of the Battle of Cuito Cuanavale is exactly a carbon copy of the propaganda version of the war that Fred Brigland quotes as coming from the Cubans. Fred quotes even Fidel Castro from various speeches AS SAYING SOMETHING QUITE DIFFERENT AND MUCH CLOSER TO THE TRUTH!! He has quotes from various speeches by Castro about the war and the strategic issues of it.

So the ANC is just doing their cheap propaganda trip as usual. The reality is that, as the General says, there were lots of "Lomba river" operations and there were even bigger battles there. The biggest battle of the war was fought at Lomba river and it is there that the South Africans wiped out an entire Cuban Brigade!! General Jannie Geldenhuys then stated that the wiping out of this entire Brigade is the GREATEST VICTORY IN THE HISTORY OF THE SADF! I will try to see what details I can find. But that is the battle nobody on the other side talks about. I know that there was one battle that was a complete slaughter - almost World War II style.

The ANC goes on about how fabulously they fought side by side with the Cubans, etc. What the ANC does NOT tell you is that the REBELLION of the ANC cadres - remember when the ANC tortured and murdered some of their own people in Angola? Well, according to Fred Brigland, when the ANC pressed hundreds of their own troops into battle in Angola, THERE WAS A REBELLION IN THEIR RANKS! Their own troops did not see the sense in fighting in someone else's war. There was apparently quite a huge rebellion in their ranks and that is when they went to town and tortured and murdered some of them. This rebellion is a DIRECT RESULT OF THE ANC SUPPORTING THE CUBANS AND FAPLA. But the ANC won't tell you that. Fred Brigland, in his book actually states that the ANC's involvement in that war is the single most shameful episode in their history.

Interestingly, Fred also states that shortly after FW De Klerk came to power, in a speech, he had said that the Govt could hold out for 80 more years! (I read in the mid-1980's an assessment in the newspapers which stated that South Africa's whites could hold our for about 25 years if they faced world sanctions, war on all fronts, etc). Either way... White South Africa was FAR FROM FINISHED!

Fred does state too that the end of the war was a rather hushed, secret and quick affair. He suspects that both the Americans and the Russians decided to end the war and that is why after Techipa deals were signed and sealed. In the end, both Russia and America were really financing their proxies. (We are their pawns!)

Fred Brigland also discusses the reasons why Casto had their heroic General executed. He devotes about a page to it stating that Oacha's popularity threatened Castro and that Castro's "trial" was really a whole mockery and Human Rights Organisations had said it was all highly suspicious. The "drug story" was just Castro's trumped-up charges in order to get Oacha shot and out of the way.

The Army and Airforce were under strict orders from the Politicians about what was and was not acceptable. They were forbidden from advancing beyond certain points. There were various restrictions placed on them in terms of how much they could escalate things. Unfortunately, the politicians, being the worthless snakes they are, will probably say nothing, and the soldiers of the time will have to stand up and explain what happened without any support from their former masters.

In the book, General Geldenhuys explained that Cuito had little value to the SADF. It was not so much about capturing it, as being able to hold it. For the SADF, the Lomba river was really the issue. The Lomba river gave them a barrier and place where they could stop the enemy advance. That is why the Generals talk about the "Lomba River operations" which is where they really fought the biggest battles.

Keep in mind that at their peak, there were 31,000 Cuban troops in Africa. During the war, a total of 400,000 Cubans saw service in Angola. Many also got AIDS while in Africa... and Castro put them in quarantine when they got home - I don't know how many died from AIDS. But that's another subject.

I'll get some more info. But this will give you all a better understanding of what went on. I think it is about time that the soldiers and people on our side understood properly what went on there. A lot has been kept quiet FOR POLITICAL REASONS AT THE TIME.
By: Jan Lamprecht
Let G_d arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him. (Psalm 68:1)

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Re: THE BATTLE OF CUITO CUANAVALE - Cuba's Mythical Victory
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2008, 07:54:52 AM »
that war could have been ended very quickly...but politics was way too much involved...doing whatever the amer's were 'suggesting'!

South African forces were stationed a few hundred kilometers from Luanda..and could have easilly fallen to the SA's. But then the amer's jumped in and told our politicians to pull away...which resulted in a prolonged war... >:(

Offline Ambiorix

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Re: THE BATTLE OF CUITO CUANAVALE - Cuba's Mythical Victory
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2008, 12:36:02 PM »
Quote
I sometimes wonder what the Russians think of this. I've come to believe the Russians had no morals, but when I watch the West's behaviour I'm starting to ask myself whether a bloody Communist doesn't in the end have more honour than these Western Liberal types? The West will sell their mother's for a buck it seems to me! The West only cares about money. But is that really the right thing to do? Aren't some things more important than money? Sure, money translates into POWER... and money translates into MILITARY POWER...

Remember the Russians (amongst others) were murdered by the millions by the bolshevik government. This regime, and WWII, actually destroyed the very genetical core of the Russian people, by executing all "bourgeois", and it is a miracle they are still able to control their country.
The Russians I've met here in the West , have more morals, and are considered hardcore fanatical religious people by the lefties here.
In other words: lots of Soviet-dominated people didn't care at all about the communist ideology, and were just playing the game.
Most I've met are very Christian, and are not afraid to provoke muslims , screaming for minutes  loudly in their face things like "I believe in the Holy Trinity, an your allah is a Dog, not a God." It's very nice to see them fighting with words muslims. If it is a one-to-one man situation, the muslims usually cave in. 1-0!
Russians hate everything that is not-Russian. They absolutely hate asians, especially the ones in their southern regions that are muslims.
They do not regard them as humans. In the Cossack areas, they drive muslims out by giving them the order to leave the city in 48 hours. After that no security is guaranteed. This is not the state, or any authority, it is just all the people uniting against the muzzies.
Muslims always leave.
If only we were like this in W-Europe.
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

Boeregeneraal

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Re: THE BATTLE OF CUITO CUANAVALE - Cuba's Mythical Victory
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2008, 10:48:00 PM »
That's very interesting Ambiorix! So they hate asians? What do they think of the non-muslim asians in Russia? Seeing that there are a lot of asians in russia.

How have you been Ambiorix?

Offline Ambiorix

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Re: THE BATTLE OF CUITO CUANAVALE - Cuba's Mythical Victory
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2008, 01:01:25 AM »
That's very interesting Ambiorix! So they hate asians? What do they think of the non-muslim asians in Russia? Seeing that there are a lot of asians in russia.

How have you been Ambiorix?

I'm fine, glad we have Arise South Africa in our rangs. Enjoying good food, had company of some friends who live abroad, and came back during the holidays. :D

Well, I was told that some Russians, especially those who live in the South, and the Cossacks (ethnically not Russians, but "cowboy-like" mercenaries that conquered the South, previous Turk regions and Siberia for Russia) are sometimes ultra-radical xenophobes. They like genuine friends, but they are most brutal with enemies. Do not forget Russia is the biggest country in the world, and most of it was conquered by Cossacks.
In practice, this makes Cossacks the ultimate muslim-annihilators. I like this mentality, because it is duty to fight for your country and religion.
Asians are hated indeed, but it depends on their mentality. If they are loyal "dhimmies" then it's OK.
They are referred to as "stupid apes on horses". They should be kneeling on the ground every time they pass a Russian on the street, to thank them for bringing civilisation.
But it depends, some Russian Orthodox Christians are racially e.g. Siberian-Russian-Mongol, and do think Russian, and fought during these wars side by side with the Cossacks.
So are they racists? Yes! But they wholeheartedly accept the people, if they are Christians and speak Russian.

Respect for enemies are given the century-long fight for middle asia, mostly unknown. Thinking of turks, chinese, mongols, chinese, tatars, Kazachs,  asians as non-humans is the standard mindset.

The opinion about Jews is ambigue : when sober, they say they are not antisemite, they admire Jews for their intellectual and musical, business and engineering capabilities. But once a week, (sometimes more, but those types are commiebasterd bolsheviks) men drink. After half a bottle of vodka, the hate begins, and after 1  - 1,5 bottle talks about "Jews are Christkillers"; "Jews destroyed Tsarism"; "all Bolsheviks were Jews" emerge. The talk about the "Jewish oligarchs" is the modern variant of this anti-semitism, perfectly directed from the Kremlin. Nonetheless, this type of speech is so common here in Belgium amongst the muslims, and comparing them , the muslims are more fanatical anti-Judaists, because the whole religion of Islam is anti-Judaist, and anti-Christ.

Needless to say that there are many different types of russian ultra-nationalists : it's only neo-nazis scum "skinheads" that use violence against minorities, including Jews, and last 10 years are increasing racially motivated attacks on public transport/streets, etc...

At the other hand most Russian patriots hate neo-nazis, (given WW2) ; have nothing against Jews, and find these skinhead-gangs' killings of asians on metros plain terrorism.
In general, I think, lots of people are more concerned about earning money to by a little bit of food (need to combine two jobs, etc,..), to pay the rent,... then to talk about politics.
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

Offline AriseSouthAfrica

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Re: THE BATTLE OF CUITO CUANAVALE - Cuba's Mythical Victory
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2008, 01:06:42 AM »
That's very interesting Ambiorix! So they hate asians? What do they think of the non-muslim asians in Russia? Seeing that there are a lot of asians in russia.

How have you been Ambiorix?

I'm fine, glad we have Arise South Africa in our rangs.

Thank you Ambiorix! Very pleased to be with you all!

Your posts are very interesting, thank you!
Let G_d arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him. (Psalm 68:1)

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Re: THE BATTLE OF CUITO CUANAVALE - Cuba's Mythical Victory
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2008, 01:18:24 AM »
That's very interesting Ambiorix! So they hate asians? What do they think of the non-muslim asians in Russia? Seeing that there are a lot of asians in russia.

How have you been Ambiorix?

I'm fine, glad we have Arise South Africa in our rangs.

Thank you Ambiorix! Very pleased to be with you all!

Your posts are very interesting, thank you!
Thanks, your posts about Angola and the Cubans are interesting info too. I remember these news-items about UNITA, it was almost everyday on TV.

But what happened there , in short?
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

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Re: THE BATTLE OF CUITO CUANAVALE - Cuba's Mythical Victory
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2008, 01:35:25 AM »
Quote
I'm fine, glad we have Arise South Africa in our rangs. Enjoying good food, had company of some friends who live abroad, and came back during the holidays.


Definitely!!! I hope you had a good holiday ;)

So, what is the make-up of the Cossasks? So, do they contain germanic blood? That sort of thing. So I gather that most are staunchly anti-communist?


Offline Ambiorix

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Re: THE BATTLE OF CUITO CUANAVALE - Cuba's Mythical Victory
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2008, 02:27:17 AM »
Quote
I'm fine, glad we have Arise South Africa in our rangs. Enjoying good food, had company of some friends who live abroad, and came back during the holidays.


Definitely!!! I hope you had a good holiday ;)

So, what is the make-up of the Cossasks? So, do they contain germanic blood? That sort of thing. So I gather that most are staunchly anti-communist?


The guy I know told me that they are very proud about their bloodlines, and that they see themselves as more pure Nordic and Germanic, than the Germans. He regard Russians as from a lower race, especially those who are from still bolshevik areas.
In reality however, "most historians agree that the Cossack people were of mixed ethnic origins, descending from Turks, Tatars, Russians, Ukrainians and others who settled or passed through the vast Steppe that stretches from Asia to southern Europe." dixit wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Cossacks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossack
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betrayal_of_the_Cossacks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Registered_Cossacks

Quote
Although Cossacks are sometimes regarded as xenophobic, some Cossacks readily adapted to the cultures and customs of nearby peoples (for example, the Terek Cossacks were heavily influenced by the culture of North Caucasian tribes) and frequently married local residents (other non-Cossack settlers and natives) regardless of race or origin, sometimes setting aside religious restrictions.[19] War brides brought from distant lands were also common in Cossack families. One of the Russian Volunteer Army commanders, General Bogaevsky mentions in his book one of his Cossacks unit's servicemen, Sotnik Khoperski, who was Chinese by origin and brought from Manchuria during the Russian-Japanese War 1904-1905 as a child, adopted and raised by a Cossack family

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In 1893 the Cossacks had a total population of 2,648,049 (including 1,331,470 women), and they owned nearly 146,500,000 acres (593,000 km²) of land, including 105,000,000 acres (425,000 km²) of arable land and 9,400,000 acres (38,000 km²) under forests

Quote
In the Civil War that followed the Russian Revolution, the Cossacks found themselves on both sides of the conflict. Many officers and experienced Cossacks fought for the White Army, and some of the poorer ones joined the Red Army. Following the defeat of the White Army, a policy of Decossackization (Raskazachivaniye) took place on the surviving Cossacks and their homelands since they were viewed as a potential threat to the new regime. This involved dividing their territory amongst other divisions and giving it to new autonomous republics of minorities, and then actively encouraging settlement of these territories with those peoples, but there were also arrests and violent repressions. This policy of resettlement was especially true for the Terek Cossacks land. The Cossack homelands were often very fertile, and during the collectivisation campaign many Cossacks shared the fate of kulaks. The famine of 1933 hit the Don and Kuban territory the hardest. According to Michael Kort, "During 1919 and 1920, out of a population of approximately 3 million, the Bolshevik regime killed or deported an estimated 300,000 to 500,000 Cossacks".[4] Including 45 thousand Terek Cossacks.[5]

They have always been a warrior nation, defending and expanding Russia's borders, in return for autonomy.
People that fled from Russia (slaves), or Turkey, were allowed, to work as farmers, while the Cossacks themselves only were soldiers.
Because they were loyal to the death, they fought until 1927 (I have to look it up , could be 1923) against the red army... Then they were set in extermination camps.
During WWII, entire regiments defected to the German SS, and were fighting Regiments of Cossacks that were still loyal to the USSR.
En route to Stalingrad, the Cossacks greeted the Germans as liberators.
Indeed, they hate communists (and muslims) totally, as they were nearly exterminated by Trotsky and co.
They had some intermixing, since, the Cossacks were mostly marrying locals of the regions they colonised. Some of them needed to wait for years until the Russians came after for colonising the regions they conquered.
They were living between the Turks and the Russians , and accepted all slave-farmers from the Russian side that fled to their lands. These people were allowed to live there permanently, after a democratic election approved this.
Nowdays, the Cossacks are allowed to revive their culture again, and the youths are back in military academies, to later protect the Russian borders.
I saw videos of Cossack girls in military training, and they learn everything from shooting, close combat, horse driving, tank driving, special operations...

Oh yeah , never make the mistake to call a Cossack a Kazach! They will kill you :::D. to make it even more difficult, in Russian the words are Kazak and Kazach.
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

Boeregeneraal

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Re: THE BATTLE OF CUITO CUANAVALE - Cuba's Mythical Victory
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2008, 05:29:09 AM »
most interesting!

Thanks for that Ambiorix!

Offline Ultra Requete

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Re: THE BATTLE OF CUITO CUANAVALE - Cuba's Mythical Victory
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2008, 06:14:09 AM »
Yes Russians are much like Poles, although we hate to to admitt it, and Russian politics is for Russia benefit only  it's not anti or pro American, Iranian or Israeli. One more thing nobody is beliving in comunism in former Soviet Empire or its colonies we laugh at the dumb western European or american Youths with Che Shirts we supported SA and Pinochet in Chile or even Afgan Mujahedins in eghties becouse they killed comies. Of course nobody was talking that they were muslims then. 
Jeremiah 8:11-17

11 They dress the wound of my people as though it were not serious. Peace, peace, they say, when there is no peace.

12 Are they ashamed of their loathsome conduct? No, they have no shame at all; they do not even know how to blush. So they will fall among the fallen; they will be brought down when they are punished, says the LORD.

13 'I will take away their harvest, declares the LORD. There will be no grapes on the vine. There will be no figs on the tree, and their leaves will wither. What I have given them will be taken from them.'

14 Why are we sitting here? Gather together! Let us flee to the fortified cities and perish there! For the LORD our God has doomed us to perish and given us poisoned water to drink, because we have sinned against him.

15 We hoped for peace but no good has come, for a time of healing but there was only terror.

16 The snorting of the enemy's horses is heard from Dan; at the neighing of their stallions the whole land trembles. They have come to devour the land and everything in it, the city and all who live there.

17 See, I will send venomous snakes among you, vipers that cannot be charmed, and they will bite you, declares the LORD.

Love your Enemy
And Heap Burning Coals on his Head!!!
http://net-burst.net/revenge/love_and_wrath_of_God.htm

Offline Ambiorix

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Re: THE BATTLE OF CUITO CUANAVALE - Cuba's Mythical Victory
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2008, 06:18:15 AM »
Yes Russians are much like Poles, although we hate to to admitt it, and Russian politics is for Russia benefit only  it's not anti or pro American, Iranian or Israeli. One more thing nobody is beliving in comunism in former Soviet Empire or its colonies we laugh at the dumb western European or american Youths with Che Shirts we supported SA and Pinochet in Chile or even Afgan Mujahedins in eghties becouse they killed comies. Of course nobody was talking that they were muslims then. 
Uhmmm weren't we supposed to believe they were freedom fighters?
Turkey must get out of NATO. NATO must get out of Kosovo-Serbia. Croats must get out of Crajina. All muslims must get out of Christian and Jewish land. Turks must get out of Cyprus. Turks must get out of "Istanbul". "Palestinians" must get out of Israel. Israel must become independent from USA.

Boeregeneraal

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Re: THE BATTLE OF CUITO CUANAVALE - Cuba's Mythical Victory
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2008, 06:44:36 AM »
Quote
we supported SA and Pinochet in Chile or even Afgan Mujahedins in eghties becouse they killed comies.
are you refering to Poland now?-because Poland itself was under the commie rule. Your propably talking about america?

say, what do the Poles think about russia's military resurgance?

Offline Ultra Requete

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Re: THE BATTLE OF CUITO CUANAVALE - Cuba's Mythical Victory
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2008, 07:25:10 AM »
Quote
we supported SA and Pinochet in Chile or even Afgan Mujahedins in eghties becouse they killed comies.
are you refering to Poland now?-because Poland itself was under the commie rule. Your propably talking about america?

say, what do the Poles think about russia's military resurgance?

We're against it becouse sooner or later the Russians will alie themselfs with Germany ant try to partition us again like in 1795, 1860, or 1939. Or fight one another on our teritory which sadly between the too like in 1914-18 or 1941-45. That's why we support close Euro Atlantic relations with US and UK to counter both EU and Russia just like we were alied with Bonapartist France earlier before it became first russian then german lapdog.   
Jeremiah 8:11-17

11 They dress the wound of my people as though it were not serious. Peace, peace, they say, when there is no peace.

12 Are they ashamed of their loathsome conduct? No, they have no shame at all; they do not even know how to blush. So they will fall among the fallen; they will be brought down when they are punished, says the LORD.

13 'I will take away their harvest, declares the LORD. There will be no grapes on the vine. There will be no figs on the tree, and their leaves will wither. What I have given them will be taken from them.'

14 Why are we sitting here? Gather together! Let us flee to the fortified cities and perish there! For the LORD our God has doomed us to perish and given us poisoned water to drink, because we have sinned against him.

15 We hoped for peace but no good has come, for a time of healing but there was only terror.

16 The snorting of the enemy's horses is heard from Dan; at the neighing of their stallions the whole land trembles. They have come to devour the land and everything in it, the city and all who live there.

17 See, I will send venomous snakes among you, vipers that cannot be charmed, and they will bite you, declares the LORD.

Love your Enemy
And Heap Burning Coals on his Head!!!
http://net-burst.net/revenge/love_and_wrath_of_God.htm

Offline AriseSouthAfrica

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Re: THE BATTLE OF CUITO CUANAVALE - Cuba's Mythical Victory
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2008, 01:38:28 PM »
Angola: SaluteTo The SADF Victors Of Cuito Cuanavale!

It does not matter how desperately the communists try to rewrite history, the truth is shining.
The glorious victors of CC and ALL Border War battles were the boys of the SADF.
They defeated the united communist forces in Angola, they defeated the terrorist-mob on the borders, just to get betrayed, sold out from their own government.
There are two generations of SA WARRIORS who should be *very proud* of their achievements.
It does not matter how desperately the same communist-terrorists in power now try to steal the victory and dignity of these men, it does not matter how determined the ANC government try to demoralize and criminalize them, these excellent soldiers of the SADF were/are the real heroes.
The communists know this very well and still [censored] scared of them.

COMMUNIST NATIONS IN ANGOLA

The Angolan armed forces were equipped, trained, and supported almost exclusively by communist countries. The Soviet Union provided the bulk of FAPLA's armaments and some advisers, whereas Cuba furnished most of the technical assistance, combat support, and training advisory services. Cubans also participated to a limited extent in ground and air combat. Other communist countries, particularly Czechoslovakia, the German Democratic Republic (East Germany), Hungary, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (North Korea), Poland, and Yugoslavia, also furnished arms and related aid. In the 1980s, Angola also obtained limited amounts of matériel, military assistance, and training from countries such as Belgium, Brazil, Britain, the Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany), France, Spain, and Switzerland. Broadly speaking, there was an international division of labor in which the Soviet Union supplied large quantities of heavy weapons and equipment, other communist states furnished small arms, and the noncommunist suppliers provided mostly nonlethal items.

The MPLA owed its ascendancy in the civil war in large part to the massive Soviet airlift of arms and Cuban troops during 1975 and 1976. Subsequently, Moscow and Havana remained the mainstays of the regime as far as its military needs were concerned. From 1982 to 1986, the Soviet Union delivered military equipment valued at US$4.9 billion, which represented more than 90 percent of Angola's arms imports and one-fourth of all Soviet arms deliveries to Africa. Poland and Czechoslovakia transferred arms valued at US$10 million and US$5 million, respectively, over the same five-year period. During 1987 and 1988, Moscow more than compensated for FAPLA losses with accelerated shipments of heavy armaments. In addition to the tanks noted earlier, dozens of aircraft, heavy weapons, and air defense systems were delivered.

Beyond matériel deliveries, Moscow and its allies continued to provide extensive technical aid. Soviet military, security, and intelligence personnel and advisers helped establish the defense and security forces and served as advisers at all levels, from ministries in Luanda to major field commands. The Soviet Union's civilian and military intelligence services, in coordination with their counterpart organizations from other communist countries, particularly East Germany, Czechoslovakia, and Cuba, assisted in the creation and development of the Angolan state security and intelligence services.

The Soviet Union provided most of the air force pilot and technician training as well as technical assistance in the operation and maintenance of the most advanced equipment: aircraft and warships, major weapons such as missiles, artillery, and rockets, and sophisticated radar and communications equipment. The number of Soviet service members and advisers varied. In 1988 it was estimated by most sources to range between 1,000 and 1,500 personnel, including some fighter pilots. UNITA claimed that the Soviet military presence increased during 1988 to 2,500 or 3,000 and that seven officers were assigned to each FAPLA brigade.

Cuba was the main provider of combat troops, pilots, advisers, engineers, and technicians. As the insurgency war expanded, so did Cuba's military presence. By 1982 there were 35,000 Cubans in Angola, of which about 27,000 were combat troops and the remainder advisers, instructors, and technicians. In 1985 their strength increased to 40,000, in 1986 to 45,000, and in 1988 to nearly 50,000. All told, more than 300,000 Cuban soldiers had served in Angola since 1975. Angola paid for the services of the Cubans at an estimated rate of US$300 million to US$600 million annually.

The Cuban forces, despite their numbers, generally did not engage directly in combat after 1976. Most of the Cubans were organized and deployed in motorized infantry, air defense, and artillery units. Their main missions were to deter and defend against attacks beyond the southern combat zone, protect strategic and economically critical sites and facilities, and provide combat support, such as rear-area security, logistic coordination, air defense, and security for major military installations and Luanda itself. At least 2,000 Cuban troops were stationed in oil-producing Cabinda Province. Cubans also trained Angolan pilots, and flew some combat missions against UNITA and the SADF. In addition, Cuban military personnel provided technical and operational support to SWAPO and the ANC within Angola (see Angola as a Refuge , this ch.).

In mid-1988 Cuba substantially reinforced its military presence in Angola and deployed about one-fifth of its total forces toward the front lines in the south for the first time. This cohort was reported to include commando and SAM units, which raised concerns about direct clashes with South African forces. The move was apparently made to keep UNITA and the SADF at bay and to strengthen the negotiating position of Luanda and Havana in the United Statesbrokered peace talks.

East Germany and North Korea followed the Soviet Union and Cuba as Angola's most active and influential communist supporters. The East Germans played key roles in the intelligence and security agencies, as well as in the ideology and propaganda organs. They provided communications security services, technicians, mechanics, and instructors to maintain and operate equipment and vehicles and to train artillery crews, radar operators, and combat pilots. The East Germans also reportedly operated a training camp south of Luanda for ANC and SWAPO guerrillas. Estimates of the number of East Germans in Angola ranged from 500 to 5,000, the higher estimates probably including family members and other nonmilitary technicians and advisers.

During the 1980s, North Korea expanded and intensified its diplomatic and military assistance activities in Africa, particularly in the southern part of the continent. After training Zimbabwe's Fifth Brigade in 1981 and 1982 and furnishing arms to that country, North Korea made a major military commitment in Angola. Although denied by Angolan officials, several sources reported that Luanda concluded a military aid agreement with Pyongyang in September 1983 that led to the dispatch of some 3,000 North Korean combat troops and military advisers by May 1984.

The reported activities of the North Koreans included the training of special units, such as hit-and-run forces and sniper squads. North Korean troops also reportedly engaged in combat operations, including FAPLA's early 1986 offensive. North Koreans were also reported to be providing military and ideological instruction to SWAPO and ANC militants in five training camps north and northeast of Luanda.

Other communist states provided more modest military support. Arms deliveries by Poland and Czechoslovakia were noted earlier. A military cooperation agreement was signed in 1982 with Hungary, which was reported to have provided small arms. Yugoslavia furnished grenade launchers, trip-wire grenades, antipersonnel mines, hollow-charge rockets, and air defense artillery; a Yugoslav firm also built a runway and other facilities at Lubango airport. Romania was reported to have given unspecified military aid.

Data as of February 1989

Source: The information regarding Angola on this page is re-published from The Library of Congress Country Studies and the CIA World Factbook.

-----------

More facts about Cuito...
http://www.rhodesia.nl/cuito.htm

Submitted by Fox:
http://www.africancrisis.co.za/Article.php?ID=24890&
Let G_d arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him. (Psalm 68:1)

Offline AriseSouthAfrica

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Re: THE BATTLE OF CUITO CUANAVALE - Cuba's Mythical Victory
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2008, 01:45:10 PM »
Angolan War: Cuito Cuanavale: More than 90% of the ANC's troops MUTINIED due to combat losses!
By: Jan Lamprecht


I was browsing through the late Mwezi Twala's book, "Mbokodo" (sorry for the spellings).

Mwezi Twala was an ANC officer and was one of those who mutinied and was later tortured by the ANC in Angola.

In his book, I browsed through and found some interesting pages explaining the ANC mutiny.

I want to digress for a moment. Mwezi actually praised the late Oliver Tambo (after which Johannesburg airport is now named). He said that Tambo was an extremely tough leader and he described him as "brilliant". He said that if Nelson Mandela had led the ANC (instead of being imprisoned), then the ANC would have folded! He reckons that Tambo became a virtual DICTATOR when Mandela was in prison and it was his hard hand that kept the ANC together. It was on Tambo's watch that the mutiny occurred.

Here is how, in a nutshell, Mwezi Twala described the mutiny. The ANC leaders informed the ANC troops in Angola that they must fight alongside the MPLA (Marxists), against Savimbi's UNITA. The ANC troops did not like the idea. Many argued that they were there to fight Apartheid in South Africa and they wanted to get on with that.

The ANC nevertheless sent them into combat against UNITA. The ANC forces were ill equipped but at first achieved success against UNITA. Then UNITA regrouped. The UNITA troops were much more experienced and the UNITA troops counter-attacked and slaughtered them. After a year of rough treatment at the hands of UNITA the ANC cadres had had their morale totally destroyed.

What ensued was a virtual mutiny. The ANC cadres questioned the ANC leaderships competance. Among notable leaders whom they regarded as a TOTAL INCOMPETANT was Joe Modise - who later became an MP. They said that Joe Modise was an incompetant who was lining his pockets and getting rich.

Mwezi Twala states in his book that: MORE THAN 90% OF THE ANC TROOPS MUTINITIED!

Then the ANC leadership asked FAPLA (The MPLA army) to come and discipline their own troops! The Angolans refused. Then the ANC asked the Cubans to come and kick their own troops donkeys into line and the Cubans also refused.

So the ANC then decided to take things into their own hands and what ensued was a bloody and inhuman series of tortures, which Mwezi said, would have taught other communists a lesson or two!! He talked of people being beaten so severely that some of them would be damaged for life. Others were hung from trees, and so forth.

I did not read more. But I was very interested in the ANC mutiny, and that must be the ANC's most embarrassing moment ever with regard to its own people.

I will do some more digging.

By: Jan Lamprecht
Tuesday 01-Apr-2008
Let G_d arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him. (Psalm 68:1)