Kahanist Singles > Jewish Singles
What Do You Think Of Pre-Marital Intimacy And/Or Touching?
White Israelite:
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on May 23, 2008, 06:23:42 PM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 23, 2008, 05:53:06 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on May 23, 2008, 05:21:20 PM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 23, 2008, 02:12:21 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on May 23, 2008, 02:05:35 PM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 23, 2008, 01:09:57 PM ---
--- Quote from: מאיר כהן on May 23, 2008, 12:39:50 PM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 23, 2008, 03:35:33 AM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on May 23, 2008, 03:30:55 AM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 22, 2008, 11:06:59 PM ---
--- Quote from: FULL METAL JACKET on May 22, 2008, 06:05:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 22, 2008, 05:46:59 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on May 22, 2008, 04:50:41 PM ---
--- Quote from: Rubystars on May 22, 2008, 02:20:48 PM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 22, 2008, 02:15:17 PM ---It's no fair to the woman if a man touches her because he gets sexual enjoyment from touching her. I will not shake an attractive woman's hand because I don't want to use her for enjoyment and because it is a sin to have such enjoyment from a woman other than my wife.
--- End quote ---
I didn't realize men thought of sex when they shook someone's hand.
What concerns me is that women would be the ones being disadvantaged professionally because much of the business world is male and much of the medical profession is male. So if you're a female businessperson or doctor and you can't shake hands with a colleague or examine someone of the opposite gender then you're going to be severely disadvantaged compared to your male counterparts.
--- End quote ---
Don't worry rubystars..I don't think of sex when a shake a woman's hand...However, if i"M holding my girlfriend's hand and we come across haredi or any yamulka wearing jew, we let go of each other out of respect.
--- End quote ---
I never said that men think of sex when shaking a woman's hand. I said they feel a sexually pleasureful feeling in their body. It is a body reaction, not a thought.
--- End quote ---
A rather broad generalization I think............
Perhaps for a guy who is never around women and barely dates that might be true.
--- End quote ---
Well Jewish men are not allowed to kiss women before marriage so any physical contact with a woman can be a sexual experience.
--- End quote ---
I have a problem with this theology. It makes no sense to me. If a Jewish man is technically not supposed to kiss a woman before marraige then what stops him from having sex which is really "eating from from the tree of knowledge"...and kissing simply means "touching that fruit."
The idea of not kissing a woman before marraige is a fence that is built around the Torah. To all those who can uphold that rule, my blessings to them...But certainly, kissing is not sex...
--- End quote ---
Kissing can be as pleasureful as sex. You can get the same feeling in your body without having intercourse. Kissing is mouth sex and therefore is wrong before marriage.
--- End quote ---
I don't think kissing is mouth sex as it doesn't constitute as a sexual organ. Scripture forbids wasting of the seed but I don't recall anything about kissing.
--- End quote ---
It's possible that kissing can lead to the wasting of seed due to the pleasureful feeling of the kissing and I have heard of such a case. I asked a rabbi on Ask Moses about that and he said if it is an issue in a marriage, then the husband should only kiss his wife while having intercourse.
--- End quote ---
Listen..i have a lot of respect for those who wish to wait till they get married before they kiss...And i agree 100% that kissing can lead to other unholy things. THerefore, i respect those who feel they are weak on this account and prefer to wait. However, this "fence" is not a commandment..it is a matter of choice for a Jew who feels he needs this safeguard from sinning. Not all will kiss and feel like wasthing his seed or going further to have sex. But some men are very weak and they should follow this prohibition if it is important to them to not have sex before marraige or simply masturbate.
--- End quote ---
Masturbation is worse than pre-marital kissing. It always wastes seed while pre-marital kissing doesn't always waste seed. When I said kissing can waste seed, I meant that it comes out by itself while kissing because of the sexual feeling involved with the kiss. I didn't mean that there was any below the waste contact between the two. Someone told me that this happened to him the first and only time time he kissed a woman.
--- End quote ---
Yaacov..i know what you meant. the sexual feeling of a kiss might make a man want to masturbate afterwards..I get it...
--- End quote ---
You still don't get it. You're a man. You should know how men's bodies work. I'm saying the kiss itself would cause the seed to spill during the kiss. Why masturbate when he is touching a woman's body? The feeling of touching a woman's body without wasting seed is more sexually satisfying than wasting seed by yourself without a woman.
When I was 13, I had a girlfriend in Israel and it was the greatest feeling in The World just to hug her and kiss her on the cheek. I also slow danced with a girl when I was 16. The only feelings that can surpass the feelings of hugging a woman are to French Kiss or to have sex, neither of which I have done, Baruch Hashem, but I can only imagine how turned on I would feel from kissing a woman on the lips. But all I can do is dream about the day I'll do it. Even if I was not against doing it before marriage, I also could only dream about it. It is not something realistic at this point in my life and it never has been. I thought I would get to do it with my French Internet girlfriend when I was 18 but she returned to her old boyfriend before we ever met and I only got to kiss her on the cheek and she kissed me on the cheek the one time I met her and after that she never wanted to see me again. But that kiss she gave me was the best kiss I ever received. The only other times were when I was 13 and 14 with the blonde Israeli in Israel and when I blackmailed a girl to kiss me in 8th Grade when I was 13. The first time I kissed the Israeli was in a pool and someone from the forum told me on the phone "You're bad.". I cherish the memories and find it amazing I was able to do so at such as young age only a few months after I started liking girls but at the same time I know it was wrong and I will never do it again.
--- End quote ---
That little tiny bit of seminal fluid that comes out...really...to be honest that stuff sometimes comes out when you wake up in the morning...so...i don't by it that when i kiss a girl a significant amount of sperm is lost by drippage...
--- End quote ---
Your referring to wet dreams? That is true.
Zelhar:
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on May 23, 2008, 06:23:42 PM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 23, 2008, 05:53:06 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on May 23, 2008, 05:21:20 PM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 23, 2008, 02:12:21 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on May 23, 2008, 02:05:35 PM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 23, 2008, 01:09:57 PM ---
--- Quote from: מאיר כהן on May 23, 2008, 12:39:50 PM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 23, 2008, 03:35:33 AM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on May 23, 2008, 03:30:55 AM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 22, 2008, 11:06:59 PM ---
--- Quote from: FULL METAL JACKET on May 22, 2008, 06:05:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 22, 2008, 05:46:59 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on May 22, 2008, 04:50:41 PM ---
--- Quote from: Rubystars on May 22, 2008, 02:20:48 PM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 22, 2008, 02:15:17 PM ---It's no fair to the woman if a man touches her because he gets sexual enjoyment from touching her. I will not shake an attractive woman's hand because I don't want to use her for enjoyment and because it is a sin to have such enjoyment from a woman other than my wife.
--- End quote ---
I didn't realize men thought of sex when they shook someone's hand.
What concerns me is that women would be the ones being disadvantaged professionally because much of the business world is male and much of the medical profession is male. So if you're a female businessperson or doctor and you can't shake hands with a colleague or examine someone of the opposite gender then you're going to be severely disadvantaged compared to your male counterparts.
--- End quote ---
Don't worry rubystars..I don't think of sex when a shake a woman's hand...However, if i"M holding my girlfriend's hand and we come across haredi or any yamulka wearing jew, we let go of each other out of respect.
--- End quote ---
I never said that men think of sex when shaking a woman's hand. I said they feel a sexually pleasureful feeling in their body. It is a body reaction, not a thought.
--- End quote ---
A rather broad generalization I think............
Perhaps for a guy who is never around women and barely dates that might be true.
--- End quote ---
Well Jewish men are not allowed to kiss women before marriage so any physical contact with a woman can be a sexual experience.
--- End quote ---
I have a problem with this theology. It makes no sense to me. If a Jewish man is technically not supposed to kiss a woman before marraige then what stops him from having sex which is really "eating from from the tree of knowledge"...and kissing simply means "touching that fruit."
The idea of not kissing a woman before marraige is a fence that is built around the Torah. To all those who can uphold that rule, my blessings to them...But certainly, kissing is not sex...
--- End quote ---
Kissing can be as pleasureful as sex. You can get the same feeling in your body without having intercourse. Kissing is mouth sex and therefore is wrong before marriage.
--- End quote ---
I don't think kissing is mouth sex as it doesn't constitute as a sexual organ. Scripture forbids wasting of the seed but I don't recall anything about kissing.
--- End quote ---
It's possible that kissing can lead to the wasting of seed due to the pleasureful feeling of the kissing and I have heard of such a case. I asked a rabbi on Ask Moses about that and he said if it is an issue in a marriage, then the husband should only kiss his wife while having intercourse.
--- End quote ---
Listen..i have a lot of respect for those who wish to wait till they get married before they kiss...And i agree 100% that kissing can lead to other unholy things. THerefore, i respect those who feel they are weak on this account and prefer to wait. However, this "fence" is not a commandment..it is a matter of choice for a Jew who feels he needs this safeguard from sinning. Not all will kiss and feel like wasthing his seed or going further to have sex. But some men are very weak and they should follow this prohibition if it is important to them to not have sex before marraige or simply masturbate.
--- End quote ---
Masturbation is worse than pre-marital kissing. It always wastes seed while pre-marital kissing doesn't always waste seed. When I said kissing can waste seed, I meant that it comes out by itself while kissing because of the sexual feeling involved with the kiss. I didn't mean that there was any below the waste contact between the two. Someone told me that this happened to him the first and only time time he kissed a woman.
--- End quote ---
Yaacov..i know what you meant. the sexual feeling of a kiss might make a man want to masturbate afterwards..I get it...
--- End quote ---
You still don't get it. You're a man. You should know how men's bodies work. I'm saying the kiss itself would cause the seed to spill during the kiss. Why masturbate when he is touching a woman's body? The feeling of touching a woman's body without wasting seed is more sexually satisfying than wasting seed by yourself without a woman.
When I was 13, I had a girlfriend in Israel and it was the greatest feeling in The World just to hug her and kiss her on the cheek. I also slow danced with a girl when I was 16. The only feelings that can surpass the feelings of hugging a woman are to French Kiss or to have sex, neither of which I have done, Baruch Hashem, but I can only imagine how turned on I would feel from kissing a woman on the lips. But all I can do is dream about the day I'll do it. Even if I was not against doing it before marriage, I also could only dream about it. It is not something realistic at this point in my life and it never has been. I thought I would get to do it with my French Internet girlfriend when I was 18 but she returned to her old boyfriend before we ever met and I only got to kiss her on the cheek and she kissed me on the cheek the one time I met her and after that she never wanted to see me again. But that kiss she gave me was the best kiss I ever received. The only other times were when I was 13 and 14 with the blonde Israeli in Israel and when I blackmailed a girl to kiss me in 8th Grade when I was 13. The first time I kissed the Israeli was in a pool and someone from the forum told me on the phone "You're bad.". I cherish the memories and find it amazing I was able to do so at such as young age only a few months after I started liking girls but at the same time I know it was wrong and I will never do it again.
--- End quote ---
That little tiny bit of seminal fluid that comes out...really...to be honest that stuff sometimes comes out when you wake up in the morning...so...i don't by it that when i kiss a girl a significant amount of sperm is lost by drippage...
--- End quote ---
Right, that fluid is practically seedless and its biological role is not insemination, I don't think that one needs to pray amendment over this .
Dr. Dan:
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 23, 2008, 07:26:55 PM ---Wet dreams are caused by impure thoughts. They are also said to be caused by being seduced by the demon Lilit at night although Chaim says this is allegorical.
--- End quote ---
Umm, what planet do we live on? Impure thoughts? Aren't we human that have hormones that spike when we go through puberty?
Also, if we didn't have these so called "impure thoughts" esepcially during that time period or in our adult life, we men would be called, ummm, a HOMO (that is in homosexual!!!)
yah... um...oh yeh, Gd forbid!
Drippage is drippage...sometimes over night as the bladder fills up, we tend to get erections...also known as "morning wood"...yeh..that's not always due to impure thoughts but becuase we have to pee really badly and subconciously hold the urge to pee while we are asleep.
Ben Yehuda:
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 23, 2008, 02:12:21 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on May 23, 2008, 02:05:35 PM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 23, 2008, 01:09:57 PM ---
--- Quote from: מאיר כהן on May 23, 2008, 12:39:50 PM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 23, 2008, 03:35:33 AM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on May 23, 2008, 03:30:55 AM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 22, 2008, 11:06:59 PM ---
--- Quote from: FULL METAL JACKET on May 22, 2008, 06:05:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 22, 2008, 05:46:59 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on May 22, 2008, 04:50:41 PM ---
--- Quote from: Rubystars on May 22, 2008, 02:20:48 PM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 22, 2008, 02:15:17 PM ---It's no fair to the woman if a man touches her because he gets sexual enjoyment from touching her. I will not shake an attractive woman's hand because I don't want to use her for enjoyment and because it is a sin to have such enjoyment from a woman other than my wife.
--- End quote ---
I didn't realize men thought of sex when they shook someone's hand.
What concerns me is that women would be the ones being disadvantaged professionally because much of the business world is male and much of the medical profession is male. So if you're a female businessperson or doctor and you can't shake hands with a colleague or examine someone of the opposite gender then you're going to be severely disadvantaged compared to your male counterparts.
--- End quote ---
Don't worry rubystars..I don't think of sex when a shake a woman's hand...However, if i"M holding my girlfriend's hand and we come across haredi or any yamulka wearing jew, we let go of each other out of respect.
--- End quote ---
I never said that men think of sex when shaking a woman's hand. I said they feel a sexually pleasureful feeling in their body. It is a body reaction, not a thought.
--- End quote ---
A rather broad generalization I think............
Perhaps for a guy who is never around women and barely dates that might be true.
--- End quote ---
Well Jewish men are not allowed to kiss women before marriage so any physical contact with a woman can be a sexual experience.
--- End quote ---
I have a problem with this theology. It makes no sense to me. If a Jewish man is technically not supposed to kiss a woman before marraige then what stops him from having sex which is really "eating from from the tree of knowledge"...and kissing simply means "touching that fruit."
The idea of not kissing a woman before marraige is a fence that is built around the Torah. To all those who can uphold that rule, my blessings to them...But certainly, kissing is not sex...
--- End quote ---
Kissing can be as pleasureful as sex. You can get the same feeling in your body without having intercourse. Kissing is mouth sex and therefore is wrong before marriage.
--- End quote ---
I don't think kissing is mouth sex as it doesn't constitute as a sexual organ. Scripture forbids wasting of the seed but I don't recall anything about kissing.
--- End quote ---
It's possible that kissing can lead to the wasting of seed due to the pleasureful feeling of the kissing and I have heard of such a case. I asked a rabbi on Ask Moses about that and he said if it is an issue in a marriage, then the husband should only kiss his wife while having intercourse.
--- End quote ---
Listen..i have a lot of respect for those who wish to wait till they get married before they kiss...And i agree 100% that kissing can lead to other unholy things. THerefore, i respect those who feel they are weak on this account and prefer to wait. However, this "fence" is not a commandment..it is a matter of choice for a Jew who feels he needs this safeguard from sinning. Not all will kiss and feel like wasthing his seed or going further to have sex. But some men are very weak and they should follow this prohibition if it is important to them to not have sex before marraige or simply masturbate.
--- End quote ---
Masturbation is worse than pre-marital kissing. It always wastes seed while pre-marital kissing doesn't always waste seed. When I said kissing can waste seed, I meant that it comes out by itself while kissing because of the sexual feeling involved with the kiss. I didn't mean that there was any below the waste contact between the two. Someone told me that this happened to him the first and only time time he kissed a woman.
--- End quote ---
Yacov,
As a physician, I can add that medical theory dictates that seed [sperm] is constantly recycled within the male, whether it leaves his body or not. Old gametes are resorbed and new gametes produced. So, if it is not used for fertilization, it is destroyed or wasted, so to speak, inside the body or out. Hence sex without fertilization, or masturbation, in this sense, is logically no more a waste of seed than abstinence.
I am not trying to make a point for one sort of behavior or another just pointing out the apparent inconsistency of "wasting the seed" argument. If G-d commands a behavior then there need be no argument what an observant Jew need do, logic and medical theory aside. I am sure on what G-d commands regarding this according to Torah. Are there direct passages regarding this in Torah?
Nic Brookes:
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 23, 2008, 05:53:06 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on May 23, 2008, 05:21:20 PM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 23, 2008, 02:12:21 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on May 23, 2008, 02:05:35 PM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 23, 2008, 01:09:57 PM ---
--- Quote from: מאיר כהן on May 23, 2008, 12:39:50 PM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 23, 2008, 03:35:33 AM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on May 23, 2008, 03:30:55 AM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 22, 2008, 11:06:59 PM ---
--- Quote from: FULL METAL JACKET on May 22, 2008, 06:05:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 22, 2008, 05:46:59 PM ---
--- Quote from: Dr. Dan on May 22, 2008, 04:50:41 PM ---
--- Quote from: Rubystars on May 22, 2008, 02:20:48 PM ---
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 22, 2008, 02:15:17 PM ---It's no fair to the woman if a man touches her because he gets sexual enjoyment from touching her. I will not shake an attractive woman's hand because I don't want to use her for enjoyment and because it is a sin to have such enjoyment from a woman other than my wife.
--- End quote ---
I didn't realize men thought of sex when they shook someone's hand.
What concerns me is that women would be the ones being disadvantaged professionally because much of the business world is male and much of the medical profession is male. So if you're a female businessperson or doctor and you can't shake hands with a colleague or examine someone of the opposite gender then you're going to be severely disadvantaged compared to your male counterparts.
--- End quote ---
Don't worry rubystars..I don't think of sex when a shake a woman's hand...However, if i"M holding my girlfriend's hand and we come across haredi or any yamulka wearing jew, we let go of each other out of respect.
--- End quote ---
I never said that men think of sex when shaking a woman's hand. I said they feel a sexually pleasureful feeling in their body. It is a body reaction, not a thought.
--- End quote ---
A rather broad generalization I think............
Perhaps for a guy who is never around women and barely dates that might be true.
--- End quote ---
Well Jewish men are not allowed to kiss women before marriage so any physical contact with a woman can be a sexual experience.
--- End quote ---
I have a problem with this theology. It makes no sense to me. If a Jewish man is technically not supposed to kiss a woman before marraige then what stops him from having sex which is really "eating from from the tree of knowledge"...and kissing simply means "touching that fruit."
The idea of not kissing a woman before marraige is a fence that is built around the Torah. To all those who can uphold that rule, my blessings to them...But certainly, kissing is not sex...
--- End quote ---
Kissing can be as pleasureful as sex. You can get the same feeling in your body without having intercourse. Kissing is mouth sex and therefore is wrong before marriage.
--- End quote ---
I don't think kissing is mouth sex as it doesn't constitute as a sexual organ. Scripture forbids wasting of the seed but I don't recall anything about kissing.
--- End quote ---
It's possible that kissing can lead to the wasting of seed due to the pleasureful feeling of the kissing and I have heard of such a case. I asked a rabbi on Ask Moses about that and he said if it is an issue in a marriage, then the husband should only kiss his wife while having intercourse.
--- End quote ---
Listen..i have a lot of respect for those who wish to wait till they get married before they kiss...And i agree 100% that kissing can lead to other unholy things. THerefore, i respect those who feel they are weak on this account and prefer to wait. However, this "fence" is not a commandment..it is a matter of choice for a Jew who feels he needs this safeguard from sinning. Not all will kiss and feel like wasthing his seed or going further to have sex. But some men are very weak and they should follow this prohibition if it is important to them to not have sex before marraige or simply masturbate.
--- End quote ---
Masturbation is worse than pre-marital kissing. It always wastes seed while pre-marital kissing doesn't always waste seed. When I said kissing can waste seed, I meant that it comes out by itself while kissing because of the sexual feeling involved with the kiss. I didn't mean that there was any below the waste contact between the two. Someone told me that this happened to him the first and only time time he kissed a woman.
--- End quote ---
Yaacov..i know what you meant. the sexual feeling of a kiss might make a man want to masturbate afterwards..I get it...
--- End quote ---
You still don't get it. You're a man. You should know how men's bodies work. I'm saying the kiss itself would cause the seed to spill during the kiss. Why masturbate when he is touching a woman's body? The feeling of touching a woman's body without wasting seed is more sexually satisfying than wasting seed by yourself without a woman.
When I was 13, I had a girlfriend in Israel and it was the greatest feeling in The World just to hug her and kiss her on the cheek. I also slow danced with a girl when I was 16. The only feelings that can surpass the feelings of hugging a woman are to French Kiss or to have sex, neither of which I have done, Baruch Hashem, but I can only imagine how turned on I would feel from kissing a woman on the lips. But all I can do is dream about the day I'll do it. Even if I was not against doing it before marriage, I also could only dream about it. It is not something realistic at this point in my life and it never has been. I thought I would get to do it with my French Internet girlfriend when I was 18 but she returned to her old boyfriend before we ever met and I only got to kiss her on the cheek and she kissed me on the cheek the one time I met her and after that she never wanted to see me again. But that kiss she gave me was the best kiss I ever received. The only other times were when I was 13 and 14 with the blonde Israeli in Israel and when I blackmailed a girl to kiss me in 8th Grade when I was 13. The first time I kissed the Israeli was in a pool and someone from the forum told me on the phone "You're bad.". I cherish the memories and find it amazing I was able to do so at such as young age only a few months after I started liking girls but at the same time I know it was wrong and I will never do it again.
--- End quote ---
An immoral schvarza reading this would be laughing so much at this!
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