Author Topic: my post earlier today on thread... "dating while converting..."  (Read 3361 times)

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Offline nikmatdam

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in light of the last week or so here at jtf and what has gone on... i repost this here on the general board... because what i have to say here is too important to let it be buried on a board hardly anyone sees... i'll try not to do this too often... nik.


as if i had any credibility anymore on this topic... but the answer is as follows if you already have met someone you don't have to stop seeing him/her while you are in the conversion process... however if you are single you should wait until you are fully a jew since you might want to back off or bow out at a later date and thus should not be involved with a jewish prospective husband/wife when that occurs because that's just begging to lead to an intermarriage...

while we are on this topic... i wish to clarify something along the lines of this issue...

when ezra and nechemiah discovered that alot of the returning jewish men had been intermarried in bavel and had goyish children in tow... they pronounced a fast, tore kriah (tore their clothing) and poured ashes on their heads and sat on the ground crying like in avelut (mourning)... and then they instituted a religious ban called a cherem on anyone not willing to immediately divorce his non-jewish wife and send them and their non-jewish children back to their country of origin... and if they would not do this by a specific date they would all be rounded up and thrown out of eretz yisroel... (this throwing out applying as well to the jews themselves who refused to divorce their goyish wives) and so as a result most jews thusly intermarried divorced their wives... and sent them all packing i'm sure with provisions and money for the journey and a life without their husbands and fathers back in bavel...

but all of this begs the question over there in the second temple era... why didn't they encourage proper conversion... for both the wives and the children...? why wasn't this even offered as an option...? the answer is as follows...

we only allow conversion for truth... love and belief in Hashem and His torah... or perhaps for love of and for the jewish people as a whole... but not for the love of a single jewish man or woman...

but if that's the case... why nowadays do we allow these kinds of conversions to begin from the point of the love for a jewish man or woman first and proceed to the rest of the things necessary for a sincere conversion later...?

the answer is because we are dealing with non-religious jews who may be influenced to become religious when their wife or husband-to-be is sincerely learning for conversion... to mekarev the jew(ess) in the equation we allow the process to begin and wait to see if both of them take to the torah-lifestyle which will be insisted upon for the eventual and prospective conversion to be considered and deemed halachically valid and legitimate... for this special consideration we make the concession and dispensation ezra and nechemiah were not allowed to make... since besides a little idolatry still in the mix among some of the returning jews... which led to intermarriage in many of their cases... they still were fully observant in other areas of torah law...

idolatry wasn't and either/or situation back in biblical days... it was rather more of a this and also that proposition for those who were fooled by the allures of paganism... they wanted the benefit of "living in both worlds"... like eliyahu hanavi had said earlier on in jewish history during the first temple times... "when will you cease to sit on both sides of the fence (to straddle the fence)...? if G-d be the true G-d worship Him... and if ba'al be G-d worship him..." (1kings:18:21)... "and eliyahu came unto all the people and said...'how long will you halt between two opinions...? if the L-rd be G-d, follow Him... but if ba'al, then follow him...' and the people answered him not a word..."

now since this was not the case by me... as i am like those of the second temple period... for  i have been an observant jew for over 30 years already... a case like kelly's would not apply... and i should not have been pursuing her... still however... if she had wanted to convert on her own for her own reasons... it would have been ok in the end for me to go out with her...but not beforehand... so i screwed up here bigtime and i am sincerely repentant for my grave error... G-d forgive me... i'm just sick and tired of being alone and unfortunately i have no prospects of this ending anytime soon on the immediate horizon... anyway... "yeshuat Hashem keheref ayin..." ("the salvation of the L-rd can come at the blink of an eye...") and this is what i'm holding out for here...

anyway this is the halacha regarding dating while converting as best as i understand it and can explain it... nik. out...
« Last Edit: June 30, 2008, 05:05:05 AM by nikmatdam »
"i am nikmatdam... humble and imperfect servant of Hashem... and i yearn for redemption but i absolutely ache for Divine justice and vengeance..."