Author Topic: What the Hell Do We Do About Pakistan?  (Read 1561 times)

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Offline bd1111

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What the Hell Do We Do About Pakistan?
« on: August 19, 2008, 07:14:22 AM »


Does Pakistan’s government support terrorism?

It has, and experts say that Pakistan’s military and Interservices Intelligence (ISI) both include personnel who sympathize with—or even assist—Islamist militants. ISI has provided covert but well-documented support to terrorist groups active in Kashmir, including the al-Qaeda affiliate Jaish-e-Mohammed, which investigators linked to the December 2001 attack on the Indian parliament and the February 2002 murder of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl. President Pervez Musharraf made promises to stop Kashmiri militants from crossing into the Indian-held sector of Kashmir, but India insists Musharraf has yet to stop the terrorists’ movements.
How did Pakistan respond to September 11?

Pakistan, which had backed al-Qaeda’s Taliban hosts before September 11, abruptly reversed course and threw its lot in with the U.S.-led antiterrorist coalition. Under heavy U.S. pressure, Musharraf condemned the attacks and pledged Pakistan’s “unstinted cooperation” two days later. Pakistan has since become a key U.S. partner in its campaign against al-Qaeda, even as the perpetually turbulent, nuclear-armed Muslim country has teetered on the brink of war with India over the disputed province of Kashmir. Experts say Musharraf, who came to power in a 1999 coup, is under enormous strain: America is demanding that he crack down on Islamist militants; Pakistan’s religious extremists and some intelligence officials are furious at him for abandoning Afghanistan’s Taliban rulers and softening his line on Kashmir; and Pakistan’s main political parties are shunning him because he’s resisting the restoration of democracy.
Do all Pakistanis support the ‘war on terrorism’?

No. Despite its government’s cooperation with the United States, Pakistan is home to many Islamist extremists, some with links to al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups. Militants have conducted several terrorist attacks on Americans and other Westerners in Pakistan since September 11, including the abduction and murder of Daniel Pearl and the June 2002 car bombing of the U.S. consulate in Karachi, which killed twelve Pakistanis. Thanks to shared Islamist sympathies and ethnic ties, some Pakistanis have also helped Taliban and al-Qaeda fighters fleeing from Afghanistan take refuge throughout Pakistan. U.S. officials are concerned al-Qaeda could regenerate itself in urban areas and in the Northwest Frontier province, a lawless tribal region on the Afghan border inhabited by Pashtuns, the Taliban’s dominant ethnic group.
How has Pakistan supported the ‘war on terrorism’?

By becoming a major U.S. partner and staging area for the war in Afghanistan. The United States considers Pakistan one of its most important allies in the “war on terror.” Pakistan granted overflight rights to coalition aircraft, let U.S. forces use two Pakistani airfields, and shared intelligence about suspected terrorists. Pakistan has also worked with the FBI to capture suspected al-Qaeda and Taliban fugitives who fled into northern Pakistan—including al-Qaeda operations chief Abu Zubaydah and the alleged September 11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh Muhammad—and in some cases has committed its own troops to hunt down al-Qaeda holdouts. According to the State Department’s 2004 Country Report, “Pakistan continues to pursue al-Qaeda and its allies aggressively through counterterrorist police measures and large-scale military operations.” Osama bin Laden is widely believed to be hiding in the remote tribal region along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border with his deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri. Musharraf says Pakistani troops had their best chance of capturing bin Laden from May-July 2004, after the army launched an offensive along the border with Afghanistan. But he says the trail has now gone cold.

After the July 2005 London bombings, in which the bombers were of Pakistani decent—and at least one of the suspects visited a Pakistani madrassa—Musharaff outlined a new approach for cracking down on extremism. He has decided to monitor hate sermons from mosques; require that all madrassas be registered and foreign students expelled; clamp down on inflammatory material; and prohibit militant groups from collecting funds. Pakistan also responded to the bombing by detaining more than 200 suspected Islamist militants.
Have U.S. personnel operated in Pakistan?

Yes. U.S. soldiers have joined Pakistani troops on raids in the tribal border regions, and the FBI is contributing information and agents to the pursuit of al-Qaeda holdouts. U.S. officials say they need Americans on the ground because the Pakistani military is not doing enough on its own, and Pakistan-watchers say the government remains reluctant to pursue terrorists at home because it fears an internal political backlash. Moreover, Pakistan has not wanted to launch large-scale military operations against al-Qaeda while many of its troops have been amassed along the Indian border due to tensions over Kashmir, a festering conflict that has flared up several times since India and Pakistan gained independence.
How does the Kashmir crisis affect the war on terrorism?

It’s a large, frightening distraction, particularly since both Pakistan and India have nuclear weapons. Tensions over Kashmir, which spiked after a December 2001 terrorist attack on India’s parliament, have diverted U.S. and Pakistani resources away from the pursuit of al-Qaeda. Experts say the fate of the disputed Muslim-majority province is fundamental to Pakistan’s national identity and Musharraf’s rule; observers say the general was able to seize power because his predecessor backed down in a 1999 showdown over Kashmir. Meanwhile, India—also an American partner in the antiterrorist coalition—has accused the United States of hypocrisy for working with a Pakistani government that India says continues to support terrorism.


Offline P J C

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Re: What the Hell Do We Do About Pakistan?
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2008, 07:33:12 AM »
It is not simple, because if we fund India instead (which we should have from day 1) Pakistan will aid Iran or even Al quaeda with nuclear missles. If I were president I would probably put foward an anti-Nuclear middle east program. To exterminate all of Iran's nuclear factories and disable all of Pakistan's already active missles. Than we won't have to cater to Pakistan, and instead we can fund our true allie, the Indians.
"A wise man's heart directs him toward the right, but a foolish man's heart directs him toward the left." Ecclesiastes 10:2

Offline Ulli

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Re: What the Hell Do We Do About Pakistan?
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2008, 07:40:52 AM »
We have to invade this country instantly and take the atomic bombs and the complete atomic equipment away inclusive the scientists.

If Pakistan is breaking in pices, the gouvernment will lose controll about it and Bin Laden is already in this country. 

If we don't act now we have not to wait until Achmadinedschad is developing and distributing atomic bombs.  :(
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Offline bd1111

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Re: What the Hell Do We Do About Pakistan?
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2008, 08:04:29 AM »
I can't believe the Bush administration wasted all this money on Iraq. Instead they should have gone into Afghanistan and Pakistan. Now, we can't even effort to do it. Meanwhile, the Taliban is getting stronger and the Pakistani ISI is involved in the bombing of the Indian Embassy in Kabul. Who the hell is running this country? These guys don't have a clue. Iraq was not even a threat. In fact, Hussein was containing that area. Iran was and is a way bigger threat than Iraq. US foreign policy is totally screwed up. Between the US, Israel and India we could have totally crushed Afghanistan and Pakistan. It the paki nukes that make this very difficult...

Watch this Video: 

Report: U.S. Officials Say Pakistan Helped Plan Indian Embassy Blast

WASHINGTON  —  United States government officials say American intelligence agencies concluded members of Pakistan's spy service helped plan the July 7 bombing of India's embassy in Kabul, Afghanistan, that killed 41 people, The New York Times reported.

The report said U.S. officials cited intercepted communications between Pakistani intelligence officers and militants who carried out the attack as confirmation of Pakistan's ties to the blast.

Officials said the communications were intercepted before July 7, but were not detailed enough as to reference a specific bombing, The Times reported.

“It confirmed some suspicions that I think were widely held,” a State Department official told The Times. “It was sort of this ‘aha’ moment. There was a sense that there was finally direct proof.”

Shortly after the embassy bombing, Afghanistan blamed a foreign intelligence agency for the blast, making a veiled but clear reference to its eastern neighbor, Pakistan.

U.S. officials also said other new information confirmed that members of the Pakistani intelligence service were increasingly providing militants with details about the American campaign against them, The Times reported.
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          o CIA Cites Pakistan Spy Agency's Ties to Militant Groups
          o Curfew Imposed as Fierce Fighting Erupts in Pakistan

Top CIA and U.S. military officials recently traveled to Pakistan to press their concerns about apparent militant ties with Pakistani officials.

Pakistan Army spokesman Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas has denied accusations of any official Pakistan complicity with terrorist groups, calling them "unfounded and baseless," but he confirmed to The Associated Press that CIA Deputy Director Steven R. Kappes and Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, met earlier this month with Pakistani generals, including Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, the army chief. The meeting, first reported by The New York Times, occurred July 12.

The meeting also came as a top Pakistani official publicly rejected giving the U.S. military authority to enter the tribal regions to attack terror networks itself.

The United States has grown increasingly frustrated as Al Qaeda, the Taliban and other militants thrive in Pakistan's remote areas and in neighboring Afghanistan, and has asked that U.S. troops be allowed to strike at terror networks. The new regime says it prefers to negotiate a new peace agreement with militant groups in the relatively ungoverned region, which is about the size of Maryland.

U.S. officials have long suspected members of Pakistan's intelligence service support or turn a blind eye to tribal warlords who have built extensive criminal networks in the semiautonomous western border area. They traffic in narcotics, weapons and consumer goods, launch attacks on Pakistani and Afghan targets, and they support terrorist groups like Al Qaeda.

A U.S. counterterrorism official said some Pakistani intelligence officers' support for the Jalaluddin Haqqani network — associated with both the Taliban and Al Qaeda — is of particular and long-standing concern.

U.S. officials say they believe the Indian embassy attack was probably carried out by members of a network led by Haqqani, The Times reported.

ISI helping Taliban: NATO

Pakistan’s intelligence agency is helping the Taliban to pursue an insurgency in Afghanistan that has seen a 50 per cent hike in attacks in some areas this year, the NATO commander said.

The number of foreign fighters, including Europeans, is also increasing here while NATO’s International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) still lacks the soldiers it needs, US General David D McKiernan said.

“There certainly is a level of ISI complicity in the militant areas in Pakistan and organisations such as the Taliban,” the four-star general said, echoing allegations by Afghan President Hamid Karzai and others. “I can’t say to what level of leadership that goes to but there are indications of complicity on the part of ISI... to the extent that they are facilitating these militant groups that come out of the tribal areas in Pakistan.”

Pak clashes kill 6 civilians, 20 Taliban Pakistani warplanes killed at least six civilians in a tribal area bordering Afghanistan after fierce clashes in which 20 Taliban militants were killed.

Al Qaeda tape criticises Pervez
In a message believed to be from Al Qaeda’s No 2 leader, Ayman al-Zawahri claimed Pakistan is now “virtually ruled from the American Embassy.” Al-Zawahri lists a litany of charges against Musharraf, who he says has betrayed Muslims by supporting the US after the September 11, 2001 attacks.

Offline bd1111

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Re: What the Hell Do We Do About Pakistan?
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2008, 08:10:21 AM »
Another Video:

Offline Zelhar

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Re: What the Hell Do We Do About Pakistan?
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2008, 08:41:18 AM »
It is not simple, because if we fund India instead (which we should have from day 1) Pakistan will aid Iran or even Al quaeda with nuclear missles. If I were president I would probably put foward an anti-Nuclear middle east program. To exterminate all of Iran's nuclear factories and disable all of Pakistan's already active missles. Than we won't have to cater to Pakistan, and instead we can fund our true allie, the Indians.

I don't think America needs to fund India, India can take care of itself. Pakistan must be disarmed from its nukes immediately and then leave it to itself. Pakistan is really a pathetic country without its nukes. It is fragmented  and poor, and the various groups of people hate each other. It is very possible that Pakistan will split into several Islamonazi countries. The only thing holding them together is hatred to India and to the west.

Offline bd1111

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Re: What the Hell Do We Do About Pakistan?
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2008, 08:53:11 AM »
Zelhar

I agree 100% but how the hell do you get the nuke from Pakistan. There is no way that they will give them up. Even if the US, Israel, Afghanistan and India gang up on Pakistan, the Pakistanis will nuke India in an act of desperation. That cost is way too high. That I think is the issue. So what do we do?

War of Attrition/Isolation may be possible...

Offline P J C

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Re: What the Hell Do We Do About Pakistan?
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2008, 09:12:51 AM »
It is not simple, because if we fund India instead (which we should have from day 1) Pakistan will aid Iran or even Al quaeda with nuclear missles. If I were president I would probably put foward an anti-Nuclear middle east program. To exterminate all of Iran's nuclear factories and disable all of Pakistan's already active missles. Than we won't have to cater to Pakistan, and instead we can fund our true allie, the Indians.

I don't think America needs to fund India, India can take care of itself. Pakistan must be disarmed from its nukes immediately and then leave it to itself. Pakistan is really a pathetic country without its nukes. It is fragmented  and poor, and the various groups of people hate each other. It is very possible that Pakistan will split into several Islamonazi countries. The only thing holding them together is hatred to India and to the west.
If India does not need to be funded, than we tighten relation with them.
"A wise man's heart directs him toward the right, but a foolish man's heart directs him toward the left." Ecclesiastes 10:2

Offline Zionistforever

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Re: What the Hell Do We Do About Pakistan?
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2008, 09:29:14 AM »
its hard but then again not that hard. doesnt most of the world hate terrorism, why not have un forces fight taliban, in afanistan and pakistan
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Offline Zelhar

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Re: What the Hell Do We Do About Pakistan?
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2008, 09:51:03 AM »
Zelhar

I agree 100% but how the hell do you get the nuke from Pakistan. There is no way that they will give them up. Even if the US, Israel, Afghanistan and India gang up on Pakistan, the Pakistanis will nuke India in an act of desperation. That cost is way too high. That I think is the issue. So what do we do?

War of Attrition/Isolation may be possible...

I think America is capable of taking down the small nuclear Arsenal they have, and the plutonium production sites too. After 911 there were reports about an American plan of a blitz attack against Pakistan that will Disarm it and bring down its regime at the same time.

Moreover the Paki nukes are supposedly stored in a location known to the American intelligence and they are not ready for instant deployment. To the best of my knowledge Pakistan was forced/bribed to take this security precaution.

There is another way- a change of regime, more likely after the break up of Pakistan into smaller states. Take for example Kazakhstan which had voluntarily disarmed itself after the dissolution of the USSR.

Offline Rubystars

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Re: What the Hell Do We Do About Pakistan?
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2008, 10:17:48 AM »
I don't believe the United States should send one penny to any foreign country until every one of America's poor are well fed.

Offline syyuge

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Re: What the Hell Do We Do About Pakistan?
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2008, 11:05:29 AM »
Rumsffeld was certainly better official. He mostly opposed pak666 and other muzzie elements. 
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Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: What the Hell Do We Do About Pakistan?
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2008, 11:11:38 AM »
I can't believe the Bush administration wasted all this money on Iraq. Instead they should have gone into Afghanistan and Pakistan. Now, we can't even effort to do it. Meanwhile, the Taliban is getting stronger and the Pakistani ISI is involved in the bombing of the Indian Embassy in Kabul. Who the hell is running this country? These guys don't have a clue. Iraq was not even a threat. In fact, Hussein was containing that area. Iran was and is a way bigger threat than Iraq. US foreign policy is totally screwed up. Between the US, Israel and India we could have totally crushed Afghanistan and Pakistan. It the paki nukes that make this very difficult...

Well, that indeed is the difficulty with a nuclear power.   Especially a loose cannon Muzzie nuclear power.   You can't tell a nuclear power what to do.   And fighting a war with them will put your citizens at grave risk to a nuclear bombing by said country.   This is also one reason why it is such a danger for Iran to develop nukes - because the west is weak kneed and will give in to them.     This just goes to show that the whole "US is pressuring Israeli govt" excuse is just a myth.   No one can tell a nuclear power what to do.    "Diplomacy" can only be tried it seems. 

Offline syyuge

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Re: What the Hell Do We Do About Pakistan?
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2008, 11:38:38 AM »
I think diplomacy with Iran and pak666 shall be made as a common package to both of them and in their favor.

Then when this diplomacy is about to culminate to its resulting peak, their all Nuki egg's and hen's site shall be suddenly obliterated.

Only this method can ensue an everlasting solution, otherwise both may remain a perpetual headache to the rest of the world forever. O0 O0   
There are thunders and sparks in the skies, because Faraday invented the electricity.