BitTorrent seed farmer found guilty, faces 10 years in jail

[White Israelite]

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080629-jury-convicts-elitetorrents-admin-with-mpaa-help.html

The MPAA has won a jury conviction for criminal copyright infringement, opening the doors to many more cases like it in the future. A federal jury convicted 26-year-old Daniel Dove for both felony copyright infringement as well as conspiracy, the US Department of Justice announced on Friday. Dove, the last remaining administrator of EliteTorrents.com who did not plead guilty, now faces up to 10 years in prison.


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The case goes all the way back to 2005, when investigators raided EliteTorrents and shut the site down with the help of the MPAA. At the time, EliteTorrents was one of the most popular Bit Torrent trackers around and had gained notoriety for making available prerelease movies like Star Wars III: Revenge of the Sith. Search warrants were served on 10 people in the US and the site admins immediately faced criminal charges.

Two administrators, Scott McCausland and Grant Stanley, pleaded guilty in 2006 in hopes of avoiding a jury trial. Stanley got the first sentencing of five months in jail along with a $3,000 fine. McCausland also ended up serving five months in prison before going on probation, part of which involved an odd request from his probation officer to start using Windows (instead of Linux) so that monitoring software could be installed on the machine. Dove was the last holdout, refusing to plead guilty and apparently hoping that the jury would throw him a bone when he finally went to trial.

According to the DoJ, the jury was presented with evidence that Dove was in charge of a small group (known as the "Uploaders"), recruiting members with high-speed Internet connections to seed illegal content to the rest of EliteTorrents' users. Dove apparently ran a server himself, distributing the content to the Uploaders first before they seeded it to the rest of the world at large. Other evidence presented to the jury included "massive amounts" of software, video games, and music being made available through EliteTorrents, much of which was before they were officially available in stores. The evidence was apparently enough to convince the jury of Dove's involvement. He now faces up to 10 years in prison and will be sentenced on September 9, 2008.

The FBI and DoJ don't often go after file sharers as aggressively as they have in this case, but they appear willing to act when evidence collection has already been done for them. US Attorney John Brownlee's office acknowledged in 2006 that much of the evidence used in the case was supplied by the MPAA, showing that the recording industry can indeed convince the government to help fight its legal battles. With legal precedent on its side from cases like this and Jammie Thomas (even if Thomas may soon get a new trial), the recording industry is likely even more confident than ever before. The MPAA and RIAA are sure to keep going, supplying new evidence to law enforcement in hopes of winning even more convictions.

Further reading:
DoJ press release:
http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2008/June/08-crm-574.html


Maybe it's just me, but doesn't 10 years seem a bit excessive for downloading a movie? I can see it now

"What are you in for?"

"rape, what about you?"

"I downloaded star wars"

I think there are rapists and murderers who served less time than this.

Starwars episode 3 sucked anyways.

[Rubystars]

I hate how they go on a witch hunt after these people when they're not hurting anybody.

[White Israelite]

I hate how they go on a witch hunt after these people when they're not hurting anybody.

I don't support the hollywood, but i'm not going to admit to anything either.

Anyways, I think people who downloaded child porn have gotten less time than this. This is the 2nd guy from elitetorrents to get a 10 year prison sentence, it's rediculous.

If the FBI and Immigrations/customs (isn't that funny? Their busy shutting down movie piracy sites instead of catching illegal aliens) think their going to go after all 133,000 users, good riddance to them. It's going to be very expensive and difficult.

Our standards are messed up, but when your a big rich movie industry, you can influence the government to make examples of people for a victimless and harmless crime. Didn't George Lucas make a couple hundred million alone on the opening of Starwars 3? I fail to see how it harmed his business but yet some guys bubbas [censored] and loses 10 years of his life for this crap.

[Rubystars]

I agree, it's a victimless crime, it's so stupid for anyone to get into trouble for this.

[briann]

I agree, it's a victimless crime, it's so stupid for anyone to get into trouble for this.

They werent going after a downloader.  They were going after someone who was 'sharing' on a very large scale. 

I have mixed feelings... because it is stealing, but then your stealing from entertainment companies who are scum.

[White Israelite]

I agree, it's a victimless crime, it's so stupid for anyone to get into trouble for this.

They werent going after a downloader.  They were going after someone who was 'sharing' on a very large scale. 

I have mixed feelings... because it is stealing, but then your stealing from entertainment companies who are scum.

It's hard to explain how it works, the network uses a technology called Bit Torrent which was developed by Bram Cohen, in a nut shell, this is how Bit Torrent works.

BitTorrent is a peer-to-peer file sharing protocol used to distribute large amounts of data. The initial distributor of the complete file or collection acts as the first seed. Each peer who downloads the data also uploads them to other peers. Relative to standard internet hosting, this provides a significant reduction in the original distributor's hardware and bandwidth resource costs. It also provides redundancy against system problems and reduces dependence on the original distributor.

Programmer Bram Cohen designed the protocol in April 2001 and released a first implementation on 2 July 2001.[1] It is now maintained by Cohen's company BitTorrent, Inc. Usage of the protocol accounts for significant Internet traffic, though the precise amount has proven difficult to measure. There are numerous BitTorrent clients available for a variety of computing platforms.


Basically you have seeders and leechers, Bittorrent allows users from all over the world to obtain a file at maximum download speeds, previously, you had to download from a single server and it could take forever to get a file because of latency, bittorrent basically downloads peices of the file from multiple users all over the world which allows for a smooth fast transfer rate. The thing with private networks is that the quote is "It is better to give than receive" so to speak, Bittorrent automatically uploads what you download to insure other users are also getting the file, that's how the network works.

In effect, you could be downloading a movie but the client is also having you upload, that means if you download the file and you uploaded only 1 megabyte of information, bam, you've just committed a federal felony on copyright infringement and your looking at a lengthy sentence.

It's rediculous, we're fighting a war on terror and war on drugs, but our federal agents are too busy arresting 20 year old nerds for downloading/uploading a copy of starwars? And we wonder why this country is so messed up.

[Shlomo]

This is very scary. The MPAA and RIAA fight only for the profits of their elite global corporate empires.

It reminds me of that Weird Al video called "Don't Download This Song".

[briann]

This is very scary. The MPAA and RIAA fight only for the profits of their elite global corporate empires.

It reminds me of that Weird Al video called "Don't Download This Song".

This is done for propoganda reasons.  They make sure that this lawsuit is in the news, and is high profile.  Then when a novice user hears about potentially downloading pirated software, or using it or whatever... they think back to this incident (even though they don't understand it), and they don't want to get involved.

Its very effective.

Brian

[White Israelite]

I remember when I was in highschool, our class was economics/careers, they took us on field trip to different places for jobs and one of them was the county jail/court room. One of the women was of Mexican background, she was apparently illegally in the country and she was charged with selling pirated movies/music cd's. Her sentence I believe was 6 months in county jail and deportation.

The difference was, she was making profit from the software.

Users that are simply distributing it online are not making a profit, rather distributing software without permission. Now I could understand a cease and desist and go after the network providing it, but in this case, users that had little to do with the main operations are getting some hefty time in the slammer over this.

I remember when elitetorrents was shut down and there were rumors going about how feds had issued 12 search warrants. It's been at least 3 years and they have so far convicted 4 users, I think this will be the 5th. The FBI and customs claims it's going after all 133,000 users. Now how the heck are they going to go after all 133,000 users? They could narrow it down to those who uploaded the most, it's clear that they had undercover agents within the network and could have shut it down at any time, so I'm wondering if the starwars movie release was a honeypot to execute warrants and take down the site to make a example out of them to other users that are downloading movies as a scare tactic? It reminds me of the RIAA going after that grandma who did't even own a computer.

Actually come to think of it, I think that 133,000 users is incorrect, I think they had closer to 300,000 some users. It's possible 133,000 were Americans.

[White Israelite]

Also i'm curious how the FBI and customs were able to even get control of the server/domain, I could understand the domain as ICANN is based in the US if I understand (I can't believe government has that much power to confiscate a domain name to begin with), but the server was supposedly located in the Netherlands. How was the US government able to get possession of that server?


More information if anyones interested

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_D-Elite

[briann]

I remember when I was in highschool, our class was economics/careers, they took us on field trip to different places for jobs and one of them was the county jail/court room. One of the women was of Mexican background, she was apparently illegally in the country and she was charged with selling pirated movies/music cd's. Her sentence I believe was 6 months in county jail and deportation.

The difference was, she was making profit from the software.

Users that are simply distributing it online are not making a profit, rather distributing software without permission. Now I could understand a cease and desist and go after the network providing it, but in this case, users that had little to do with the main operations are getting some hefty time in the slammer over this.

I remember when elitetorrents was shut down and there were rumors going about how feds had issued 12 search warrants. It's been at least 3 years and they have so far convicted 4 users, I think this will be the 5th. The FBI and customs claims it's going after all 133,000 users. Now how the heck are they going to go after all 133,000 users? They could narrow it down to those who uploaded the most, it's clear that they had undercover agents within the network and could have shut it down at any time, so I'm wondering if the starwars movie release was a honeypot to execute warrants and take down the site to make a example out of them to other users that are downloading movies as a scare tactic? It reminds me of the RIAA going after that grandma who did't even own a computer.

Actually come to think of it, I think that 133,000 users is incorrect, I think they had closer to 300,000 some users. It's possible 133,000 were Americans.

The torrent indexers are increasingly going off-shore.  They will never be completely shut down. 

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

This is beyond obscene. Yimach schmo to the jury that did this as well as to the entire MPAA. This kid was a hero. I myself don't pirate movies, but I support all that do. Chaim has said many times that we must support anything that weakens this hideously evil industry. I hope G-d judges the MPAA and its lawyers, on an individual level, very soon.

[briann]

Also i'm curious how the FBI and customs were able to even get control of the server/domain, I could understand the domain as ICANN is based in the US if I understand (I can't believe government has that much power to confiscate a domain name to begin with), but the server was supposedly located in the Netherlands. How was the US government able to get possession of that server?

Holland and interpol cooperate with the FBI all the time.  However... usually its against pedo philes.

[briann]

Chaim has said many times that we must support anything that weakens this hideously evil industry. I hope G-d judges the MPAA and its lawyers, on an individual level, very soon.

Yes... I agree with this. 

[White Israelite]

I remember when I was in highschool, our class was economics/careers, they took us on field trip to different places for jobs and one of them was the county jail/court room. One of the women was of Mexican background, she was apparently illegally in the country and she was charged with selling pirated movies/music cd's. Her sentence I believe was 6 months in county jail and deportation.

The difference was, she was making profit from the software.

Users that are simply distributing it online are not making a profit, rather distributing software without permission. Now I could understand a cease and desist and go after the network providing it, but in this case, users that had little to do with the main operations are getting some hefty time in the slammer over this.

I remember when elitetorrents was shut down and there were rumors going about how feds had issued 12 search warrants. It's been at least 3 years and they have so far convicted 4 users, I think this will be the 5th. The FBI and customs claims it's going after all 133,000 users. Now how the heck are they going to go after all 133,000 users? They could narrow it down to those who uploaded the most, it's clear that they had undercover agents within the network and could have shut it down at any time, so I'm wondering if the starwars movie release was a honeypot to execute warrants and take down the site to make a example out of them to other users that are downloading movies as a scare tactic? It reminds me of the RIAA going after that grandma who did't even own a computer.

Actually come to think of it, I think that 133,000 users is incorrect, I think they had closer to 300,000 some users. It's possible 133,000 were Americans.

The torrent indexers are increasingly going off-shore.  They will never be completely shut down. 

Yes, but heres the issue, elitetorrents already had their server located offshore in the Netherlands which is supposedly very lax about copyright and piracy. How was the US able to get possession of a server not located in the US? They would have to physically obtain the server, clone the harddrive and then prosecute from evidence.

They would still have to match up the logs which several of the ET admins had claimed there were only logs of how much data was uploaded and downloaded, not who downloaded what.

The issue here is that the courts are convicting people of "distribution" of copyright material, now heres the key word "distribution", lets say the police obtain a subpoena from the local ISP you use at your home because of suspicion of one of the reported IP addresses listed on the torrent tracker, right? That alone creates suspicion, the IP is traced to that ISP, the ISP under court order subpoena has to release records of who the IP address was assigned to at the time. Now in many jurisdictions, users can be convicted even if they don't have the file present on their computer, just an IP address and a account holder name is enough to convict someone and it has happened. In Florida, users can now be convicted if they don't secure their wireless networks (for example, if someone comes to your home with a laptop, downloads kiddie porn and leaves, you can be held responsible and criminally charged)

Now the issue here is that the MPAA claims they don't need evidence of a user having the actual files on their computer, just enough to show that the user had intention to distribute the file.

That in it's self is rather disturbing, it's no different if you were infected with a worm/trojan and a user started sending spam from your computer, you could be held criminally responsible as a result.

Now with offshore, it's true that a lot of torrent networks are moving out of the US now, but that's still not enough. Undercover agents do infiltrate networks and log IP's, studios also hire people to log on to the trackers and gather a list of IP addresses, most of the cases are settled out of court because people are afraid to go to court and lose, then again, from a realistic perspective it would be nearly impossible to criminally charge everyone doing it, it's just too many people.

In extreme cases, individuals are now buying servers in Panama, Signapore, and other eastern asian countries to download files so that it's much more difficult to be caught. Realistically though, with unlimited funds, anyone can be tracked down.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Welcome to the New World Order. This is one-world government happening right before our eyes. *gulp*

[White Israelite]

This is beyond obscene. Yimach schmo to the jury that did this as well as to the entire MPAA. This kid was a hero. I myself don't pirate movies, but I support all that do. Chaim has said many times that we must support anything that weakens this hideously evil industry. I hope G-d judges the MPAA and its lawyers, on an individual level, very soon.

I don't even have tv service, but I don't want to support the movie industry because the people behind it and actors are evil, they don't deserve a dime from me. I will support independent films and music labels however because these are people just trying to compete against the huge corporations who outsource everything.

Anyways heres another guy who was sentenced to 5 months in prison and a interview he did.

http://www.slyck.com/story1554_EliteTorrents_Interview

EliteTorrents Interview
July 31, 2007
Thomas Mennecke  
 Two years after the fall of EliteTorrents, the name still manages to conjure memories of this once powerful private BitTorrent tracker. Although exclusive, it became one of the largest BitTorrent websites. EliteTorrents reached its zenith just prior to its demise, when it was the first BitTorrent website to track the "Star Wars, Episode III" torrent. Uploaded by then administrator Scott McCausland, EliteTorrent's would only maintain its pinnacle for a short time.

Literally within hours of hosting the Star Wars, Episode III torrent, EliteTorrent was forced off line. EliteTorrets hosted the Star Wars torrent a full 6 hours prior to its release in theaters. The next morning on May 25, 2005, FBI, local police and ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcment) agents raided the home of Scott McCausland. That moment began his two year saga which as of today is slowly drawing to a close. Scott McCausland and co-administrator Grant Stanley were sentenced to 5 months in Federal prison, followed by five months of home detention. Scott was released just last week, and agreed to speak to Slyck.com about his role with EliteTorrents.

Slyck.com: What were the intentions and goals of EliteTorrents when operations first began?

Scott: The intentions of EliteTorrents (ET) were the intentions of any other massive BitTorrent site at the time; to provide the best quality, and the largest amount (not mutually exclusive). As far as I was concerned (as one of the higher ranking Admins) we had the best uploaders and the best staff, which was why we got Star Wars, and a lot of other movies, out fast, if not fastest.

Slyck.com: Describe your functions and role within the ranks of EliteTorrents.

Scott: I was an administrator. Which meant that I had full control over the working of the site (except the coding aspects). After a while of being an administrator, I eventually helped restructure the staff and the workings, and that helped to make ET one of the largest and best BitTorrent (BT) sites around.

Slyck.com: In court you plead guilty to uploading the Star Wars, Episode III torrent. Did you consider the repercussions of doing so when you made the decision to seed the movie?

Scott: 1) In court, I plead guilty to one count of conspiracy to commit copyright infringement and one count of copyright infringement/intellectual property violation. Albeit, at this point, it is OK for me to say that I was the one who uploaded Star Wars. 2) Had I considered the consequences of seeding it (at that moment) I cant say that today would be any different than that actual day. I still firmly believe that if I can give it, you shall have it.


Slyck.com: Considering the legal action against other file-sharing networks and indexing sites at the time, did you believe that EliteTorrent's operations would be immune from copyright enforcement?

Scott: It wasn't a matter of immunity. It was the fact that we had to keep going. We were on track to become the best BT tracker. And I believe that no site around now, or then, matches us at all. The legal actions were just par for the course. Its not like we didn't know what we were doing.

Slyck.com: When you see other sites such as The Pirate Bay make a mockery of Intellectual Property while you had to pay a considerable price, how does that make you feel?

Scott: I feel that I was made an example of. And after talking to some of the other members of our little DOJ sting, I know they feel the same way. I can't complain about how I was treated by the Feds, but I firmly don't believe I deserved it.

Slyck.com: Tell us about the events leading up to and after May 25th, 2005, when the world was confronted by the FBI and U.S. Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement take down notice.

Scott: Star Wars was uploaded... and then it was game over. I awoke one morning to see the FBI warning on the ET site, and thought to myself "Damn, I think we are screwed." It didn't dawn on me at the time that I could be a target. I didn't upload a lot, just a couple movies. But I did Star Wars, so... Then, at 6AM I am woken up to the sounds of 6 FBI, 6 ICE, and 2 Local Police at my front door. They come in, confiscate everything, and that begins my 2+ years saga.

Slyck.com: Authorities stated that the server logs were also confiscated (presumably containing user information). What, if anything, did the logs contain and what were used for?

Scott: Not a lot of user info was kept on the servers (to my knowledge). They got email addresses, and some coding logs, and some other stuff. Possibly a list of IP addresses. The logs were used to gather information. They were looking for the Administrators and uploaders. So the average user had nothing, and has nothing to worry about.

Slyck.com: Tell us about the events leading up to and after December 19, 2006, when you were sentenced.

Scott: Well, it was a typical sad story. I was worried and scared of getting a prison sentence. I tried to focus on school, and tried to stay strong. I stayed away from the scene and tried to keep away from my obsessive addiction. Then the fateful day arrives, and I am sentenced to 5 months of incarceration, and 5 months of home confinement.

Slyck.com: In your blog you mentioned that most individuals in your prison were there for drug convictions. What was the general perception of fellow inmates and/or guards that you were there for criminal copyright infringement?

Scott: The prison was located in Morgantown, WV. It is the number 1 drug rehabilitation center (PRISON) in the country. They have a 500 hour drug program for drug offenders, and it gives them time off their sentence (I don't qualify for such any programs, but crack addicts do). --> Anyways, the general theme amongst the guards and other inmates was that I was given a sentence far exceeding any expectation of justice. They laughed and scoffed and thought I was a nerd. There were people who had been in prison for 20 years, and they didn't like someone who came in with 5 months... it wasn't fun.

Slyck.com: What advice would you give someone residing in the United States who is about to open a BitTorrent tracker?

Scott: I would recommend that no one run a tracker in the US. I think that with the way things are, it is an unnecessary risk. Stick to places like Sweden and other locales that are a little less stringent on their piracy policies.

Slyck.com: What lesson(s) have you learned from this experience?

Scott: I have learned that you can't beat the Justice Department. And that although they stopped me, they can't stop everyone, and I was a small player in an unmeasurable game. It won't end, because they can't stop it.

Slyck.com: If there was anything you could have done differently, what would it be?

Scott: If there was one thing I could do different, I would have never got into the game to begin with.

Slyck.com: What restrictions are placed on you for the remaining 5 month home confinement?

Scott: I have an ankle bracelet and I am allowed out of my house for church and work and school reasons. Other than that, I am confined to my home (150 feet from the monitor, and with a bracelet).

Slyck.com: What are your thoughts on P2P, file-sharing, and BitTorrent?

Scott: My thoughts on P2P and the like are as follows: I am not like a typical SCENE member, I am all for P2P sites. I think that BitTorrent is brilliant. And I feel that it is the wave of the future. With uTorrent becoming the BitTorrent client, it is just starting.

Slyck.com: When your sentence is completed, what path do you plan on taking? Do you still wish to work with computers or is there something else you'd like to explore?

Scott: At this moment I am taking it step by step. I do not have a job right now (so if anyone needs an ex-con felon, you know who to contact). I am planning on returning to school at the end of August, and just plan on moving on with my life, and keeping my family intact.

Slyck.com: What advice would you give to the BitTorrent user who feels there is a safety advantage in using a private tracker/site?

Scott: There is no advantage. It doesn't matter how good you are (because some of US are really really good), they will find you. With an unlimited amount of money, anything and anyone can be done!


Don't you guys love how our tax dollars are being wasted taking out computer nerds?

[Americanhero1]

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

It's just amusing to see how the "progressive liberals" who are all for giving rapists and murderers slaps on the wrist are the ones pushing for these obscene sentences for these harmless nerds. But nobody ever mistook leftists for being non-hypocrites. 

[White Israelite]

It's just amusing to see how the "progressive liberals" who are all for giving rapists and murderers slaps on the wrist are the ones pushing for these obscene sentences for these harmless nerds. But nobody ever mistook leftists for being non-hypocrites. 

Absolutely, afterall, hollywood is dominated by liberals/leftists who all back Obama. We are truly living in a police state.

[muman613]

Shame on all of you who support stealing. This is one of the prime mitzvahs of Torah "Though Shall Not Steal!"

No matter how many excuses you make for it, there is no excuse for stealing. I work in the software and entertainment business and I know how evil piracy is. If anyone here is engaged in this crime, please stay far, far away from me. I dont want to be near this kind of evil.

Most young kids are into self-gratification and will engage in any kind of pastime as long as they dont have to pay for it. Getting a free ride is all the rage. But the world doesnt work like that, you are not entitled to steal the work of others. And many will rationalize with the "Oh the studios make so much money!". Well that is because they spend a lot of money to make good content. Those who steal from them and then complain how bad the movie was is just like the person who complains how bad the food is, and then complains how small the portions are.

I am shocked how many people have no morals amongst people who claim to be so righteous. How can anyone make excuses for this kind of evil?

muman613

[muman613]

This has nothing to do with NWO or anything. It is basic common sense. In a capitalistic system I have every right to charge what people are willing to pay. This is called a FREE MARKET ECONOMY. I have worked in the computer entertainment business for almost 20 years and it is a tough and competitive market. Nobody gives me a free lunch, Ill tell you that.

I am just shocked at the amount of immorality which one finds among people who think they are righteous...

muman613

[muman613]

You who steal other peoples work, what do you do it for? If you hate the people who make the movies and hate the actors then just dont watch it. Why engage in criminal activity? It is obscene...

muman613

PS: We are working hard to make the next generation of movies much harder to pirate. Now I will work harder to protect the content because now I know that most young people want to steal. This is why it is more expensive, because we have to work so hard to protect the rights of the creator of the content.

[White Israelite]

Shame on all of you who support stealing. This is one of the prime mitzvahs of Torah "Though Shall Not Steal!"

No matter how many excuses you make for it, there is no excuse for stealing. I work in the software and entertainment business and I know how evil piracy is. If anyone here is engaged in this crime, please stay far, far away from me. I dont want to be near this kind of evil.

Most young kids are into self-gratification and will engage in any kind of pastime as long as they dont have to pay for it. Getting a free ride is all the rage. But the world doesnt work like that, you are not entitled to steal the work of others. And many will rationalize with the "Oh the studios make so much money!". Well that is because they spend a lot of money to make good content. Those who steal from them and then complain how bad the movie was is just like the person who complains how bad the food is, and then complains how small the portions are.

I am shocked how many people have no morals amongst people who claim to be so righteous. How can anyone make excuses for this kind of evil?

muman613

I don't think anyones defending piracy here, merely the fact that people are being prosecuted over little to no evidence (see my comments about the grandma who was charged with felony copyright infringement and didn't even have a computer).

Also the fact that our priorities are really screwed up thanks to the liberal agenda, why is it acceptable that someone downloading a movie gets 10 years in prison but a rapist/murderer or pedophile gets a plea bargain and their out and about serving less time?

Do I think a person should be punished for it? Sure, community service and fine to pay off the damages, but a federal felony in prison for 10 years of your life? People steal items in stores and get less time then that.

Do you enjoy your tax dollars being wasted to send federal agents with assault rifles kicking in doors and arresting a guy typing on a keyboard?

[muman613]

Shame on all of you who support stealing. This is one of the prime mitzvahs of Torah "Though Shall Not Steal!"

No matter how many excuses you make for it, there is no excuse for stealing. I work in the software and entertainment business and I know how evil piracy is. If anyone here is engaged in this crime, please stay far, far away from me. I dont want to be near this kind of evil.

Most young kids are into self-gratification and will engage in any kind of pastime as long as they dont have to pay for it. Getting a free ride is all the rage. But the world doesnt work like that, you are not entitled to steal the work of others. And many will rationalize with the "Oh the studios make so much money!". Well that is because they spend a lot of money to make good content. Those who steal from them and then complain how bad the movie was is just like the person who complains how bad the food is, and then complains how small the portions are.

I am shocked how many people have no morals amongst people who claim to be so righteous. How can anyone make excuses for this kind of evil?

muman613

I don't think anyones defending piracy here, merely the fact that people are being prosecuted over little to no evidence (see my comments about the grandma who was charged with felony copyright infringement and didn't even have a computer).

Also the fact that our priorities are really screwed up thanks to the liberal agenda, why is it acceptable that someone downloading a movie gets 10 years in prison but a rapist/murderer or pedophile gets a plea bargain and their out and about serving less time?

Do I think a person should be punished for it? Sure, community service and fine to pay off the damages, but a federal felony in prison for 10 years of your life? People steal items in stores and get less time then that.

WhiteIsraelite,

Yes, there is not equity in justice. This is another issue... But there must be something done to prevent others from stealing. It would be nice if Justice was middah kaneged middah {measure for measure} but in this current world it is not. I have been lucky in the US Court system. Every time I have been charged with something serious, the charges are dropped or reduced. I have a good experience with American justice.

muman613