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Offline mord

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Evangelicals and mesianic we must convert Jews
« on: September 17, 2008, 07:04:16 AM »
They should worry more about the muzzies in their countries   



Evangelicals call on Jews to assert Jesus’ gospel


World Evangelical Alliance ends Berlin conference with statement calling for mass Jewish conversion. Decree enrages Jewish communities, ADL says 'issuing such troubling words from Berlin is height of insensitivity'

Neta Sela Published:  09.17.08, 12:27 / Israel Jewish Scene 




A formal decree drafted by the World Evangelical Alliance's (WEA) Theology Commission during a Berlin conference held in August, has world Jewish communities up in arms: The decree, which explores "Jesus’ individuality and Jewish evangelism," is meant, according to the WEA, to find ways in which Christians can profess their true love for the Jewish people, especially those residing in Europe.

 


The conference, which was attended by German Christians and Messianic Jews, ended with a statement calling for forfeiting the Christian-Jewish dialogue in favor of distributing the gospel among the Jewish people. This act, said the WEA, "should be made with a true concerns for the Jewish people's redemption."

 

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Full story
 
 
 
The statement begins with the conference apologizing for the persecution of the Jews in the name of Jesus, especially during the Holocaust: "During the genocide of the Holocaust, when the Jewish people were in their greatest peril, most Christian believers remained silent.

 


"Many have apologized for the failure to speak out and for not doing more to demonstrate genuine Christian love to the Jewish people... Many more today feel embarrassment and shame for the general failure to protest.

 

"As a result, there is an evident insecurity about relations with Jewish people. Also, there is a tendency to replace direct gospel outreach with Jewish-Christian dialogue," said the statement.

 

Original sin
Jesus' teachings, it continued, state that "genuine love cannot be passive. Jesus taught that authentic love could not be unfeeling when other human beings are in misery and need. Honest love must include an expression of Christ’s good news in word and deed.

 


"Therefore, Christians everywhere must not look away when Jewish people have the same deep need for forgiveness of sins and true shalom, as do all nations. Love in action compels all Christians to share the gospel with people everywhere, including the Jewish people of Europe."

 

As for the origins of the sin of anti-Semitism, the WEA stated that "we acknowledge within the sad record of European Christian history the teaching of contempt, intolerance toward Jewish people and Judaism, abhorrent acts of coercion, and anti-Semitism in attitude, word, and deed.

 


"The historical events of the Holocaust developed within a climate of anti-Semitism. The German Evangelical Alliance out of concern for that history has expressed shame and responsibility for Christian silence and too few attempts to stop the horror.

 

"In light of rising European anti-Semitism and anti-Israelism, vigilance is necessary now... Primo Levi, a Holocaust survivor warned that 'it has happened. Therefore, it can happen again.' The source of all genocide is sin. This sin affects all humanity, both the persecutor and the sufferer. G-d’s response to sin is the gospel. Therefore, this grace must be proclaimed to every human being."

 

Praise the Lord
Embracing Jesus Christ, they declare, will rid us all of sin: "We recognize that genocide illustrates the enormity of sin. G-d is not responsible for genocide; we humans are. G-d has provided the solution.

 


"It is often seen as unacceptable to challenge another’s religious views. However, we regard failure to share the gospel as refusing to confront the problem of sin. No one should ignore Jesus’ assessment of human sin. Everyone needs what G-d offers by his grace – forgiveness of sin and a transforming divine presence that lives in those who respond.

 

"Confessing Jesus as Messiah affirms Jesus’ uniqueness as a person, especially to Jews, because Messiah (or Christ) is a Jewish concept," continued the decree. "Jesus of Nazareth was more than a prophet or a religious teacher... He exercises the divine prerogatives of forgiving sin and receiving worship. This is why we confess Jesus as divine and human," said the statement.

 


"G-d calls believers to take the gospel to the world. Everyone needs to hear this message, including the Jewish people. Proclamation to Israel was Jesus’ priority. It also reflects the apostles’ practice of going to the Jew first. Nothing has occurred since Jesus came that changes the need of Israel and the nations."


 

The World Evangelical Alliance "invites the Jewish people and all others to consider the claims of Jesus. We share this gospel with Israel and all nations, not as an attack on the integrity of others. We uphold freedom of speech, freedom of religion and an open forum for all. While respecting the views of others, we still challenge them to consider the message of the Messiah."

 

Knowledge is power

The Christians, added the WEA, "have much to learn from the Jewish people. We recognize our need to hear Jewish concerns. We affirm the importance of dialogue in promoting mutual understanding and sympathy. Dialogue provides an opportunity to share deeply-held beliefs in a context of mutual respect. Dialogue and evangelism are not mutually exclusively.

 

"We reject the notion that evangelism is deceptive in claiming that Jews can believe in Jesus. We also reject the accusation that evangelism is the equivalent of spiritual genocide. We affirm the right of Jewish believers in Jesus to practice those traditions that affirm their identity, reflect G-d’s faithfulness to his people and uphold the Messiahship of Jesus.

 


"We recognize the important role of Messianic Jews in the work and witness of the Church. Their special contribution gives testimony to the Jewish origins of Christianity and brings understanding of our Jewish roots. They remind us of the Jewishness of Jesus and the first Christians, and also remind us of the fulfillment of G-d’s promises to restore His people," concluded the statement.

 

The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) denounced the statement as well. Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director and Rabbi Eric J. Greenberg, ADL Director of Interfaith Policy, issued the following statement: "Promoting a campaign to convert Jews away from their faith is a serious affront to the Jewish people and disrespectful to Judaism’s own teachings.

 


"Though the World Evangelical Alliance claims it seeks to convert Jews out of their 'love' for Jews, we believe that if the WEA really loved Jews, they would respect Jewish teachings and recognize the integrity of Jewish tradition.

 

"It is especially troubling that the WEA includes and validates the deceptive proselytizing tactics of Messianic Jews... to issue this declaration from Berlin, where the Nazis directed their Final Solution to exterminate the Jewish people, is the height of insensitivity.




http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3597754,00.html

 

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"This Evangelical document is not an offer of love, but a prescription for hate. As long as the WEA teaches that Judaism is incomplete or misguided, anti-Semitism will continue.

 

"We urge on the WEA to withdraw its call to target the Jews of Europe for conversion and immediately begin serious dialogue with Jewish interfaith representatives, so they can understand the immense pain and anger they are causing with their ill-advised and theologically misguided position










I think this group would far better work trying to improve their countries views of Israel    see section 5



http://74.6.239.67/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=GlobeScan+organization+survey+countries+with+negative+image&y=Search&fr=yfp-t-501&u=www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/mar07/BBC_ViewsCountries_Mar07_pr.pdf&w=globescan+organization+survey+countries+negative+image+images&d=aWUqK_ReRWMi&icp=1&.intl=us 











Backgrounder

Israel

Israel is viewed quite negatively in the
world, possibly because the poll was
conducted less than six months
following the Israel/Hezbollah war in
Lebanon. On average, 56 percent
have a mainly negative view of the
country, and just 17 percent have a
positive view, the least positive rating
for any country evaluated. In 23
countries the most common view was
negative, with only two leaning
towards a positive view and two
divided.

Unsurprisingly, the most negative
views of Israel are found in the
predominantly Muslim countries in the
Middle East, with very large majorities
in Lebanon (85%), Egypt (78%),
Turkey (76%), and the UAE (73%)
having negative views.

Large majorities also have negative
views in Europe, including Germany
(77%), Greece (68%) and France
(66%). Indonesia (71%), Australia
(68%) and South Korea (62%) are the
most negative countries in the
Asia/Pacific region. Brazilians (72%)
are the most negative in Latin
America.

The two countries with mostly positive
attitudes about Israel do so in modest
numbers. Forty-five percent of
Nigerians and 41 percent of
Americans have positive views of
Israel’s influence in the world, while
nearly one-third in each country has
negative views. Kenya and India have
populations with divided views of
Israel.

This being the first time Israel was included in the list of countries rated in the survey,
there is no evidence that current ratings are better or worse than historical views.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2008, 07:45:59 AM by mord »
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Offline muman613

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Re: Evangelicals and mesianic we must convert Jews
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2008, 01:00:14 PM »
Shalom,

Whomever removes a Jew from the path of Hashem is due the Death Penalty as described in our holy Torah. Only weak minded Jews could be fooled by any missionary. In order to combat those who use this false messiah to remove a Jew from the L-rd we must strengthen our understanding of what Hashem wants from the Jew by reading, and re-reading our holy scriptures. When the missionaries come, with their mistranslated and twisted interpretations, we can firmly tell them to go jump in a lake... A Jews mission is to understand Torah and live the life which G-d has given us.

muman613

PS: I sometimes wish Judaism was more willing to make converts. I have already partially converted several believers in the man-god.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline DALMACIJA

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Re: Evangelicals and mesianic we must convert Jews
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2008, 01:08:38 PM »
So these evangelists want to make of the Jews protestants, Lutherans ?

In Russia these groups have no legal right anymore to commit missionarian activities in public in Russia.

Serbia should also have that kind of rules in order to protect the domestic nation of Serbia.

Offline Zelhar

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Re: Evangelicals and mesianic we must convert Jews
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2008, 01:17:21 PM »
How does the "World Evangelical Alliance" relates to the Pro-Israel Evangelicals, are they also members of this alliance ?

Offline AsheDina

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Re: Evangelicals and mesianic we must convert Jews
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2008, 01:30:08 PM »
  Yep- here it goes AGAIN.... WHAT PART ABOUT NO MORE FORCED INDOCTRINATION DONT THESE PEOPLE GET?! I get emails from LOTS of Christians, and NOT A ONE EVER tries to 'convert, or force indoctrinate me'    The ones that I have personally met are very sweet and loving, I have said this before, and got yelled at, but I dont care, they are, and they are very thoughtful.
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Offline nopeaceforland

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Re: Evangelicals and mesianic we must convert Jews
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2008, 01:34:29 PM »
We should have expected this and shouldn't let our guard down. Evangelicals, although very good for Israel, still want Jews to convert. They're nice people if you come in contact with them, but they're always passing out pamphlets so you can be "saved". It is very annoying in that respect! >:(

Offline muman613

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Re: Evangelicals and mesianic we must convert Jews
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2008, 01:36:48 PM »
Shalom,

All Jews should remember that there is nothing anyone can do to 'save' you aside from making Teshuva and returning to the path of the L-rd. No man or angel can intercede on the choices which you make. There is no salvation which comes from outside, it must come from within. Jews are already saved.

muman613
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline ~Hanna~

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Re: Evangelicals and mesianic we must convert Jews
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2008, 01:57:20 PM »
  Yep- here it goes AGAIN.... WHAT PART ABOUT NO MORE FORCED INDOCTRINATION DONT THESE PEOPLE GET?! I get emails from LOTS of Christians, and NOT A ONE EVER tries to 'convert, or force indoctrinate me'    The ones that I have personally met are very sweet and loving, I have said this before, and got yelled at, but I dont care, they are, and they are very thoughtful.


 :clap: :clap: :clap:

 :whew:

 :-*
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Offline 2honest

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Re: Evangelicals and mesianic we must convert Jews
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2008, 02:37:08 PM »
From a Christian perspective the new testament tells to spread the message of the gospel to the people so that everyone has at least the chance to hear about it. Christians don't consider that as removing Jews away from G-d, since both Jews and Christians believe in the G-d of the bible.
I think it shouldn't be much of a problem if Jews are convinced of Judaism.

However I agree that it gets annoying if one says "no thank you" and they keep on talking to him.
 

Offline P J C

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Re: Evangelicals and mesianic we must convert Jews
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2008, 02:39:42 PM »
I AM NOT AN EVANGELICAL CHRISTIAN. I am a Catholic Christian. I condemn this.
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Offline ~Hanna~

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Re: Evangelicals and mesianic we must convert Jews
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2008, 02:43:10 PM »
Well, at least we all can discuss this thread here,  here without resorting to violence or rocks, right?

 :dance:
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Offline Americanhero1

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Re: Evangelicals and mesianic we must convert Jews
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2008, 02:46:26 PM »
Well, at least we all can discuss this thread here,  here without resorting to violence or rocks, right?

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Offline ~Hanna~

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Re: Evangelicals and mesianic we must convert Jews
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2008, 02:49:04 PM »
SHEMA ISRAEL
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Offline nopeaceforland

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Re: Evangelicals and mesianic we must convert Jews
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2008, 02:50:40 PM »


Hey, he looks like he can throw! Get George Steinbrenner on the phone. G-d knows the Yanks can use the help! :::D

Offline Americanhero1

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Re: Evangelicals and mesianic we must convert Jews
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2008, 02:51:51 PM »
Hey, he looks like he can throw! Get George Steinbrenner on the phone. G-d knows the Yanks can use the help! :::D

Dont you mean his son Hank

Offline Ulli

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Re: Evangelicals and mesianic we must convert Jews
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2008, 02:56:33 PM »
My point of view is, that Christians should concentrate their efforts mainly on their own communities. They are in very very bad shape. I can tell. They should try to save themselves instead of begin a fight with the Jews. This is insane.

In addition to that I totally understand Jews who are upset about this.

Imo people should have the right to stick to their own religion and to worship in their own way. Every pressure that forces or pressures them to leave it is imo oppression.

Of cause this is only valid as long they don't try to cut the freedom of others - like Muslims do.

But Jews are really a example not to pressure others.

And it is not true that the concept of Jesus as the saviour is a Jewish concept. I know for shure that Jews see the Messiah only as a human, an extra-righteous human, but still a human.

Christians believe, that Jesus is the incarnation of G-d himself. This is not Jewish.

This people should stop to use the moulinex on religions.
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Re: Evangelicals and mesianic we must convert Jews
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2008, 03:14:32 PM »
My point of view is, that Christians should concentrate their efforts mainly on their own communities. They are in very very bad shape. I can tell. They should try to save themselves instead of begin a fight with the Jews. This is insane.

In addition to that I totally understand Jews who are upset about this.

Imo people should have the right to stick to their own religion and to worship in their own way. Every pressure that forces or pressures them to leave it is imo oppression.

Of cause this is only valid as long they don't try to cut the freedom of others - like Muslims do.

But Jews are really a example not to pressure others.

And it is not true that the concept of Jesus as the saviour is a Jewish concept. I know for shure that Jews see the Messiah only as a human, an extra-righteous human, but still a human.

Christians believe, that Jesus is the incarnation of G-d himself. This is not Jewish.

This people should stop to use the moulinex on religions.

Yes, yes....the Christian's don't seem to know the meaning of community, if you ask me.... :thumbsdown:

Its all about the cars and the clothes and yada yada yada.....everyone shows up to what I call a "country club mentality"......Jesus Himself would be appalled and overturning the tables.....and bring in the bullwhip to do it.....

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Offline nopeaceforland

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Re: Evangelicals and mesianic we must convert Jews
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2008, 03:17:38 PM »
Dont you mean his son Hank

I was trying to be nice, because the Yanks suck! :::D

Offline Americanhero1

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Re: Evangelicals and mesianic we must convert Jews
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2008, 03:18:44 PM »
I was trying to be nice, because the Yanks suck! :::D

Offline syyuge

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Re: Evangelicals and mesianic we must convert Jews
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2008, 03:22:27 PM »
I am against the spiritual genocide. However those who are really interested can approach to the vast population of muzzies available anywhere and everywhere.

As already said by muman: "Jews are already saved".  :)
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Offline nopeaceforland

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Re: Evangelicals and mesianic we must convert Jews
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2008, 03:26:10 PM »
This is very important for ALL Jews today especially! You got these stupid kids becoming assimilated, intermarrying etc... VERY disgusting! >:(

Offline mord

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Re: Evangelicals and mesianic we must convert Jews
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2008, 03:53:41 PM »
This is very important for ALL Jews today especially! You got these stupid kids becoming assimilated, intermarrying etc... VERY disgusting! >:(
Thats deformed Jews
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Offline nopeaceforland

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Re: Evangelicals and mesianic we must convert Jews
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2008, 04:00:40 PM »
Thats deformed Jews

Tell me about it! >:(

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Re: Evangelicals and mesianic we must convert Jews
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2008, 04:03:12 PM »
My point of view is, that Christians should concentrate their efforts mainly on their own communities. They are in very very bad shape. I can tell. They should try to save themselves instead of begin a fight with the Jews. This is insane.

In addition to that I totally understand Jews who are upset about this.

Imo people should have the right to stick to their own religion and to worship in their own way. Every pressure that forces or pressures them to leave it is imo oppression.

Of cause this is only valid as long they don't try to cut the freedom of others - like Muslims do.

But Jews are really a example not to pressure others.

And it is not true that the concept of Jesus as the saviour is a Jewish concept. I know for shure that Jews see the Messiah only as a human, an extra-righteous human, but still a human.

Christians believe, that Jesus is the incarnation of G-d himself. This is not Jewish.

This people should stop to use the moulinex on religions.
Well said!
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Offline AsheDina

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Re: Evangelicals and mesianic we must convert Jews
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2008, 04:59:29 PM »

  I agree, you CANNOT pressure people. I remember this well-meaning Christian, her name was Laura.  Every day she would tell me: I am concerned about your 'salvation'.  Well, we had NO religion in our family, it was like FORBIDDEN, b/c in a Crypto Jewish home, people dont EVER talk about G-d, or ANY religion, AT ALL.  So, Laura.... "Salvaton...Salvation" EVERY SINGLE DAY, then one time, it was like a foriegn word, & I said SALVA WHO!   NOBODY was meaner to Christians than myself, I treated them like a dog, & I regret this now, bigtime.
  Then a friend of mine, he got his 'salvation', and he was gay. I was really VERY MAD, b/c he kept talking about G-d... ALL THE TIME, and he was 'saved' Well, I just figure that if G-d could save a gay, and not me, then this Jesus made me VERY MAD. VERY VERY MAD.  >:( 
  At least the guy is doing better, & he is married. He said that gay was a choice he made. So, thats all.
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