10 killed by Finnish school shooter

[White Israelite]

RIP to the victims

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kauhajoki_shooting_incident

 Page last updated at 16:43 GMT, Tuesday, 23 September 2008 17:43 UK
 E-mail this to a friend   Printable version 
 
Finnish college gunman kills 10 

The scene outside the school

A gunman has killed 10 people at a college in the town of Kauhajoki in Finland before shooting himself and later dying in hospital.

Media reports named the gunman as Matti Juhani Saari, 22, a trainee chef at the vocational college.

The suspect posted a video of himself on the internet last week firing a gun.

As a result of this, police interviewed him on Monday but decided they did not have enough evidence to revoke his licence, the interior minister said.

The minister, Anne Holmlund, said an investigation would now try to determine whether mistakes were made.

Prime Minister Matti Vanhanen said this was a "tragic day" for Finland.

The attack echoed a shooting spree at a Finnish school last year which left nine dead, including the gunman, who had also posted an internet video.

Ski mask

The shootings in Kauhajoki, some 330km (205 miles) north of the capital, Helsinki, began just before 1100 local time (0800 GMT).

An estimated 150 students were thought to be in the college buildings at the time.

 SCHOOL SHOOTINGS
Tuusula, Finland, November 2007 - nine dead, including gunman
Virginia Tech, US, April 2007 - 33 dead, including gunman
Erfurt, Germany, April 2002 - 18 dead, including gunman
Columbine school, Denver, US, April 1999 - 15 dead including two gunmen
Dunblane, Scotland, March 1996 - 16 children, one teacher and gunman dead


Timeline of school shootings
Profile: Finnish school gunman
In pictures: Finnish shooting


The gunman, dressed in black and wearing a ski mask, was seen entering the building with a large bag. Shots were fired soon afterwards.

School caretaker Jukka Forsberg told AFP news agency that two girls had told him a man was shooting.

"I saw a guy leaving a big black bag in the corridor and going into classroom number three and closing the door," he said.

"I looked through the window and he immediately shot at me. Then I called the emergency number. Thank God I was not hit, he fired at me but I was running zigzag. I ran for my life."

Mr Forsberg added: "I heard constant shooting. He changed another case in the gun. He was very well prepared. He walked calmly."

Police ordered an evacuation and called for reinforcements as fires blazed in the building.

The gunman remained at large within the college grounds for some time.

 

Mr Vanhanen confirmed the gunman had shot himself.

Media reports said the gunman was treated for a bullet wound to the head at Tampere University Hospital but later died.

One victim also died in hospital, raising the initial toll from nine.

College headmaster Tapio Varmola told AFP: "Police have told me they suspect [the gunman] to be Matti Juhani Saari. He is a second year culinary arts student at our school."

Mr Vanhanen expressed condolences to the families of the victims and declared Wednesday a day of national mourning.

"We all as a society must be united so that events like these will not happen again," he said.

Ms Holmlund said police questioned the man about the YouTube video, which showed him shooting at a firing range.

On the video, the gunman says "you die next" before firing three times at the camera.

 FINLAND'S GUN CULTURE
1.6m firearms in private hands
Only the US and Yemen have higher civilian gun ownership
All gun owners are required to have a licence
Minimum age for buying a gun is 15
About 14% of homicides in Finland are gun-related

Ms Holmlund said: "Police were aware of this and spoke to him on Monday, September 22. However, the police officer on duty decided there was no need to terminate his gun licence."

The gunman was given a "temporary licence" for a .22-calibre firearm this year, Ms Holmlund said.

In November 2007, eight people and the gunman died in another school attack in Tuusula, Finland.

The gunman, Pekka-Eric Auvinen, posted a video on YouTube as a preview of his attack, pledging to "eliminate" those he saw as "unfit".

In the wake of that attack, Finland's government pledged to raise the minimum age for buying guns.

But the country has a long tradition of hunting and weapons-bearing, with about 1.6 million firearms in private hands.

 
 Videos of the shooter and his youtube profile.


http://antville.org/static/spacecat90/files/wumpscut86.html

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Scandinavia is a hotbed of G-d-hating atheism, Odinism, and witchcraft. This wasn't surprising.

[White Israelite]

It looks like the government is going to implement more strict gun laws

http://www.yle.fi/news/id102402.html

Government just doesn't get it, they put in more strict laws after Jokela shooting in Finland, it didn't stop the shooting, no gun control can.

Finland has a serious problem with suicides and depression.

What's even more sad is this shooting could have been prevented, the police had him in custody just the other day.

[DALMACIJA]

That’s why I fear countries who have gun tolerant policies.

In Serbia people can also easy arrange weaponary if they have money.
But children can not arrange such materials, easy. Only criminals are involved with it.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Finland and the rest of Scandinavia have severe problems with depression and suicidal violence because these are nations that have 100% rejected G-d. For crying out loud, it's even a crime to criticize homosexuality in Scandinavia. They might nominally be Lutheran, but they in reality practice militant atheism or worse, outright devil-worship such as Odinism. Nazi Germany had a very high rate of suicide too.

[דוד בן זאב אריה]

I think it has more to do with the lack of sunlight. If you look at Alaska and their suicide rate you'd see what I mean. Alaska has embraced G-d and yet then still have a higher suicide rate then say California

[White Israelite]

That’s why I fear countries who have gun tolerant policies.

In Serbia people can also easy arrange weaponary if they have money.
But children can not arrange such materials, easy. Only criminals are involved with it.

Whoa, slow down there cowboy, don't think gun free countries are paradises either. Look at South Africa where guns are nearly impossible to get or the rising crime in England? How about some of the South American countries?

Would you rather be a victim? You know how many countries passed strict gun laws and people are paying for it? Finland is hardly a gun owners paradise but the laws aren't as strict per se some of the other European countries. People are going to commit crimes regardless what laws are put in place.

School shootings are going to happen regardless what restrictions you have, look at Israel, the gun laws are very strict there but yet so many terrorist attacks and the recent shootings. Yes it's very hard to get a gun as a civilian in Israel.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I know about SAD (seasonal affective disorder), but I don't think it alone explains suicide. There is a lot of human misery in Alaska--the weather may not help, but (obviously this is not Sarah Palin's fault and it has zero to do with her) there is a high rate of broken families and marriages, poor education and human achievement, a lack of culture, etc. In short, it has a higher level of "trailer-park"-type woes than California.

Also, don't forget that California is half Latino, who are predominantly Catholic, and that Catholics believe suicide is an unpardonable sin. Alaska is overwhelmingly Protestant.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

In Serbia people can also easy arrange weaponary if they have money.
But children can not arrange such materials, easy. Only criminals are involved with it.

Whoa, slow down there cowboy, don't think gun free countries are paradises either. Look at South Africa where guns are nearly impossible to get or the rising crime in England? How about some of the South American countries?

Would you rather be a victim? You know how many countries passed strict gun laws and people are paying for it? Finland is hardly a gun owners paradise but the laws aren't as strict per se some of the other European countries. People are going to commit crimes regardless what laws are put in place.

School shootings are going to happen regardless what restrictions you have, look at Israel, the gun laws are very strict there but yet so many terrorist attacks and the recent shootings. Yes it's very hard to get a gun as a civilian in Israel.
[/quote]
Calm down, Meir Cohen. I don't think he was making a gun-control push. He was just expressing cynicism about gun laws in general, based on his experience in his native Serbia.

[White Israelite]

I know about SAD (seasonal affective disorder), but I don't think it alone explains suicide. There is a lot of human misery in Alaska--the weather may not help, but (obviously this is not Sarah Palin's fault and it has zero to do with her) there is a high rate of broken families and marriages, poor education and human achievement, a lack of culture, etc. In short, it has a higher level of "trailer-park"-type woes than California.

Also, don't forget that California is half Latino, who are predominantly Catholic, and that Catholics believe suicide is an unpardonable sin. Alaska is overwhelmingly Protestant.

I didn't know suicide in Alaska was high, I have a uncle who lives there though.

It is strange that Scandanavian countries have higher suicide though, one would think that Atheists would fear death even more and as a result, avoid suicide. Then again, that's a bit farfetched since I have had friends who were atheists that committed suicide but this was mainly due to mental illness.

[White Israelite]

In Serbia people can also easy arrange weaponary if they have money.
But children can not arrange such materials, easy. Only criminals are involved with it.

Whoa, slow down there cowboy, don't think gun free countries are paradises either. Look at South Africa where guns are nearly impossible to get or the rising crime in England? How about some of the South American countries?

Would you rather be a victim? You know how many countries passed strict gun laws and people are paying for it? Finland is hardly a gun owners paradise but the laws aren't as strict per se some of the other European countries. People are going to commit crimes regardless what laws are put in place.

School shootings are going to happen regardless what restrictions you have, look at Israel, the gun laws are very strict there but yet so many terrorist attacks and the recent shootings. Yes it's very hard to get a gun as a civilian in Israel.

Calm down, Meir Cohen. I don't think he was making a gun-control push. He was just expressing cynicism about gun laws in general, based on his experience in his native Serbia.
[/quote]

Yeah but if anything, him being a Serb should push him to be pro-gun, NATO disarmed Serbia to push for creation of Kosovo. We should encourage Serbs to take up arms and reclaim territory that belongs to them. Without arms, it's like trying to box without hands.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Atheists are more prone to suicide because their life philosophy naturally engenders hopelessness and nihilism. It's easy for them to conclude that there is nothing to live for.

Most far-northern nations tend to be very atheistic. Look at Russia too.

[White Israelite]

Atheists are more prone to suicide because their life philosophy naturally engenders hopelessness and nihilism. It's easy for them to conclude that there is nothing to live for.

Most far-northern nations tend to be very atheistic. Look at Russia too.

It's true that atheism is very prevalent in Russia and eastern block states, but I think a lot of this had to do with communism more than anything.

I think there are various branches of Atheism, the problem with Atheism is that people think it's a religion or lifestyle in it's own when it really isn't, it's kind of like debating what color a persons hair is when in reality, the person is bald. It's just no preference.

With atheism, we have a variety of people, I'd say humanists being the most dangerous, social darwinists are a close second, communists, leftists, liberals, and a few others. The thing with atheism is that a person chooses what they think is "morally acceptable", I'm not saying I agree with it, but I don't think all atheists are the same. I can't say that an atheist could be called righteous however, but I don't think all of them mean harm either.

The militant atheists are the worst bunch, they are all over the Richard Dawkins forums.

[Rubystars]

Also, don't forget that California is half Latino, who are predominantly Catholic, and that Catholics believe suicide is an unpardonable sin. Alaska is overwhelmingly Protestant.

As a non-denom protestant I don't think it's an unforgivable sin because I think there's only one unforgivable sin and if you still seek a relationship with God then I don't believe you could have committed that one. If the person is mentally ill or depressed so deeply that they can't control their own behavior and they end up committing suicide I think they could still go to heaven, but of course if you make a stupid choice to commit suicide you probably won't in my belief.

[White Israelite]

One thing I don't understand about a majority of the school shooters is they are obsessed with Columbine, I don't understand why Columbine is regarded as such a historic event?

We know that a lot of the shooters have something in common, they are generally involved in Social Darwinism (the strong survive, the weak die) for the foundation of evolution, their music interests are pretty similar (electronic music, industrial metal), they are obsessed with paganism or atheist views, love weapons/guns (ok not a bad thing in it's self unless used for bad purposes), and they rebel against modern society.

Are these people a product of problems with our government and the current lifestyle? It makes me think. I generally blame a individual for their actions and not their influences though there is a strong trend for those obsessed with the Columbine killers.

Columbine wasn't even the most deadly school massacre, infact it was poorly done and wasn't orchestrated like it was supposed to because their bombs failed to go off on time.

Just seems strange.

[White Israelite]

Also, don't forget that California is half Latino, who are predominantly Catholic, and that Catholics believe suicide is an unpardonable sin. Alaska is overwhelmingly Protestant.

As a non-denom protestant I don't think it's an unforgivable sin because I think there's only one unforgivable sin and if you still seek a relationship with G-d then I don't believe you could have committed that one. If the person is mentally ill or depressed so deeply that they can't control their own behavior and they end up committing suicide I think they could still go to heaven, but of course if you make a stupid choice to commit suicide you probably won't in my belief.

My dad was Jewish and committed suicide, but he suffered from very severe mental illness. I'd like to think he's in the afterlife, but that's up to God.

[Rubystars]

Atheists are more prone to suicide because their life philosophy naturally engenders hopelessness and nihilism. It's easy for them to conclude that there is nothing to live for.

Most far-northern nations tend to be very atheistic. Look at Russia too.

It's true that atheism is very prevalent in Russia and eastern block states, but I think a lot of this had to do with communism more than anything.

I also think it had to do with communism. Look how China punishes people who try to follow some of the religious traditions there. They don't allow them to burn their kitchen idol for example in the new year.

I think there are various branches of Atheism, the problem with Atheism is that people think it's a religion or lifestyle in it's own when it really isn't, it's kind of like debating what color a persons hair is when in reality, the person is bald. It's just no preference.

Atheism = without theism, or without belief in G-d.

I've met atheists who actually do believe in spiritual stuff which technically in a sense could be a form of G-d (small g) but they deny this. There are weak atheists (who have a lack of belief in G-d) and strong atheists (who believe affirmatively that there is no G-d). The distinction is a little confusing but it is important. The strong atheists tend to be the more irritating ones, like Richard Dawkins.

With atheism, we have a variety of people, I'd say humanists being the most dangerous, social darwinists are a close second, communists, leftists, liberals, and a few others. The thing with atheism is that a person chooses what they think is "morally acceptable", I'm not saying I agree with it, but I don't think all atheists are the same. I can't say that an atheist could be called righteous however, but I don't think all of them mean harm either.

The secular humanists are some of the worst. They call themselves humanist and in reality they want every anti-human thing imaginable, on top of that they want to turn humans into g-ds or humanity into a G-d.

The militant atheists are the worst bunch, they are all over the Richard Dawkins forums.

I wouldn't even go there. Dawkins is good at Biology in some respects (for example I like the idea of cells being survival machines for the genetic material within) but when it comes to religion he should Shut the fluff up. Did you hear about that "Brights" thing he tried to help start, where all of us theists were then of course in their minds relegated to the "dims" even though they denied that it meant that.

[mord]

FINNS ARE THE MOST PRONE TO SUICIDE THEN SWEEDEN,NORWAY OR DENMARK

[Rubystars]

I think I read something one time that said more intelligent people are more prone to suicide.

[White Israelite]

I think I read something one time that said more intelligent people are more prone to suicide.

Doesn't sound very intelligent to me,

Although in the case of hitler, blowing his brains out was probably the most intelligent thing he did.

[Kylefromomaha]

Let me guess... Guns are illegal in Finland? (certainly not going to affect criminals)

[White Israelite]

Let me guess... Guns are illegal in Finland? (certainly not going to affect criminals)

Their not illegal, you can have handguns for "sporting" purposes like target shooting, you can get a license at 15, you can also have silencers (which I think should be allowed because they protect hearing) but they are still pretty strict compared to say switzerland or America.

[MasterWolf1]

Don't they have gun laws in Finland?  Here's to gun laws huh

[Rubystars]

I think I read something one time that said more intelligent people are more prone to suicide.

Doesn't sound very intelligent to me,

Although in the case of hitler, blowing his brains out was probably the most intelligent thing he did.

Great point! 

[zachor_ve_kavod]

Why couldn't he just kill himself?  Why did he have to take 10 innocent lives with him?  I would spit on his ashes if I could.