$700 billion bailout

[George]

Bush the bloodsucker will make this effective despite the fact that 94% of the American people oppose this.

[George]

Who said yes? I want to know how you think you have the right to steal my money to supposedly save the economy. The government is lying when it says taxpayers will save money by bailing out the dead bodies of these corporations. It will cost the tax payer less in the long run if the government doesn't bail these bastards out, allow them to fail, and let the economy fail than to bail them out so that they can feel secure and make these bad decisions again just to make the economy slightly better. This proves the republicans and Bush are leftists and the Iraq war was in fact for oil.

[jaime]

i was listening to some East Coast radio station today and a senator (he had a NY accent and i didn't get his name,) said he was at the meeting today with Paulsen and the others,) and he said to the listening audience:

"$300 billion is put aside for bonuses," and all the rest of this horse$hit and either the host of the show, I think Bob Grant? or the senator, said "for 20 year olds," meaning some of those young 20 year olds that work on Wall Street, just out of college, whatever...it's a disgrace.  go impound their cars, get the Marshall to lock them out of their mansions, indict them, investigate them, confiscate the yachts.  i refuse to pay for this.

ETA:  the senator further stated that they hire only yes men...yes to the bonuses that are bankrupting these companies

[RanterMaximus]

If this bailout becomes reality, then Obama will be our next president.  As for George Bush, this is a fitting epitaph to the worst President not named Carter.

[Dr. Dan]

i'm not completely sure...however....let me konw if i'm wrong.

By bailing out a failing company, the Govt is purchasing it at a low price.  If the govt owns these companies and they improve, the profits go to the US govt. If the profits are high then it will pay off any govt dept instead of raising taxes.

If these companies improve a lot and the govt sells it back to the private sector at the right time, then money will be instilled in the govt and all will be well...


On the down side, these bailed out companies go belly up, our taxes increase..

The irony of all this is that Bush is supposed to be a republican, but he spends money like he's a democrat...I wonder what Obama will be like if Gd forbid he bcoems president, fiscally responsible ?!

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I don't approve in the least, but some window-dressing has to be done to create the image of the government trying to save the economy.

[jaime]

i'm not completely sure...however....let me konw if i'm wrong.

By bailing out a failing company, the Govt is purchasing it at a low price.  If the govt owns these companies and they improve, the profits go to the US govt. If the profits are high then it will pay off any govt dept instead of raising taxes.

If these companies improve a lot and the govt sells it back to the private sector at the right time, then money will be instilled in the govt and all will be well...


On the down side, these bailed out companies go belly up, our taxes increase..

The irony of all this is that Bush is supposed to be a republican, but he spends money like he's a democrat...I wonder what Obama will be like if Gd forbid he bcoems president, fiscally responsible ?!

Dr. Dan,

I am coming around to your way of thinking because i have been talked to by a liberal.  Yeah I guess it will straighten out...i hope.  this is not very encouraging speaking with me, i can see that.  Bush is proposing spending because there is no other way at this moment.  Fiscal responsibility from Obama, again, don't expect me to say pretty things about him.  He said he was going to spend $1 trillion for starters.  That was before this lending/investment mess started.  Realists are stating the figure is not $700 billion but more like $1.5 trillion.

[George]

i'm not completely sure...however....let me konw if i'm wrong.

By bailing out a failing company, the Govt is purchasing it at a low price.  If the govt owns these companies and they improve, the profits go to the US govt. If the profits are high then it will pay off any govt dept instead of raising taxes.

If these companies improve a lot and the govt sells it back to the private sector at the right time, then money will be instilled in the govt and all will be well...


On the down side, these bailed out companies go belly up, our taxes increase..

The irony of all this is that Bush is supposed to be a republican, but he spends money like he's a democrat...I wonder what Obama will be like if Gd forbid he bcoems president, fiscally responsible ?!

The companies will always be partially under private ownership therefore they will have no fear doing risky business again because they know they will be bailed out. It is estimated that this pattern of bailing out companies could cost 1.6 trillion dollars soon. This along with the fact that the Iraq war will cost trillions of dollars and the Shiites will take over Iraq makeS Bush one of the worst presidents in US history. If Osama becomes president it will be his fault.

[George]

And one more thing. Who gives these thieving bloodsucking politicians the right to decide that my money should be spend bailing out companies because it's good for the economy? If I think it's good for the economy or myself, then I'll make a donation to the parasites in Wall Street.
Assuming that they will do better business in the future (which they won't thanks to the guarantee of the feds bailing them out all the time) I still think it won't be financially advantageous for the taxpayers to pay for this and have a slightly better economy than to not pay for this and have slightly worse economy.

[jaime]

I am so angry I want to leave the USA.  I can't and won't bail out these crooks and I will not live in an Obama nation.  It's that simple.  We didn't get a loan last week with top credit scores that we needed [there are a few more still pending,] to run our business.  Why is it that $13 trillion dollars has been moved out of the USA into offshore accounts by Americans?  That figure is correct.  I heard it on the news [not in the tank for Obama but a normal station.]  If you do an internet search on google, places to live (tons of them,) how to do banking/lending, how to set up your own bank, on and on about how to live on some island somewhere and hope your money doesn't disappear.  lots of people do it and after this nightmare w/the Sen. from IL, I could use a rest on some tropical island.  I guess we all could.  I just don't know how to live in an Obama nation.  I can't stand listening to a 3 second sound bite or his goofy choice in a VP.  Every day, if he wins, G-d forbid, we'll be pasted to the t.v., computers, listening to the news on the radio because of all the snaffus and gaffs the moron and dunce are doing to send this country into a 3rd world country with no rights for it's people.  This sucks!

[briann]

i'm not completely sure...however....let me konw if i'm wrong.

By bailing out a failing company, the Govt is purchasing it at a low price.  If the govt owns these companies and they improve, the profits go to the US govt. If the profits are high then it will pay off any govt dept instead of raising taxes.

If these companies improve a lot and the govt sells it back to the private sector at the right time, then money will be instilled in the govt and all will be well...


On the down side, these bailed out companies go belly up, our taxes increase..

Yes.  your mostly right.    BUT, The bailout WONT be to buy companies... it will be to buy the companies troubled assets (IE their Mortgage Backed Securities that are NOT yet in default... but which represent negative equity....  (Ie  100,000 loan, for a house thats now worth 80,000)..

They will NOT pay 100,000 for this loan... they wiill instead pay for the market price of the securities... which will employ something called a reverse auction.

And yes...  in the long run.. many economists beleive that this will be a good investment for the government... but that is debatable

All in all... if the bailout DOES NOT occur... the banks WILL collapse... and the holders of the deposits of these banks will NOT be able to get their $$ from FDIC, since it will simply be too massive to try and save the deposits...  when the news of this hits the street, everyone will pull their $$ out of the banks...causing the other banks to run dry on reserves... cause them to collapse... and wala!!!! you have a depression... where no one trusts the banks... and its next to impossible to get a loan for anything... and the economy will completely hault.

[briann]

I am so angry I want to leave the USA.  I can't and won't bail out these crooks and I will not live in an Obama nation.  It's that simple.  We didn't get a loan last week with top credit scores that we needed [there are a few more still pending,] to run our business. 

Thats just the tip of the iceburg.  If the banks collapse... NO ONE ANYWHERE will be able to get loans.  Its that simple.  No banks will be able to loan... because everyone will have withdrawn their deposits in the panic that ensues.  This is the Definition of a depression.

But this will happen worldwide... and it already is.  When there is a bank panic here... it quickly spreads to other countries.  This wasnt such a big issue in the past... but it is now.

[White Israelite]

i'm not completely sure...however....let me konw if i'm wrong.

By bailing out a failing company, the Govt is purchasing it at a low price.  If the govt owns these companies and they improve, the profits go to the US govt. If the profits are high then it will pay off any govt dept instead of raising taxes.

If these companies improve a lot and the govt sells it back to the private sector at the right time, then money will be instilled in the govt and all will be well...


On the down side, these bailed out companies go belly up, our taxes increase..

Yes.  your mostly right.    BUT, The bailout WONT be to buy companies... it will be to buy the companies troubled assets (IE their Mortgage Backed Securities that are NOT yet in default... but which represent negative equity....  (Ie  100,000 loan, for a house thats now worth 80,000)..

They will NOT pay 100,000 for this loan... they wiill instead pay for the market price of the securities... which will employ something called a reverse auction.

And yes...  in the long run.. many economists beleive that this will be a good investment for the government... but that is debatable

All in all... if the bailout DOES NOT occur... the banks WILL collapse... and the holders of the deposits of these banks will NOT be able to get their $$ from FDIC, since it will simply be too massive to try and save the deposits...  when the news of this hits the street, everyone will pull their $$ out of the banks...causing the other banks to run dry on reserves... cause them to collapse... and wala!!!! you have a depression... where no one trusts the banks... and its next to impossible to get a loan for anything... and the economy will completely hault.

Looks like war may happen in this country quicker than we think.

[jaime]

Thats just the tip of the iceburg.  If the banks collapse... NO ONE ANYWHERE will be able to get loans.  Its that simple.  No banks will be able to loan... because everyone will have withdrawn their deposits in the panic that ensues.  This is the Definition of a depression.

But this will happen worldwide... and it already is.  When there is a bank panic here... it quickly spreads to other countries.  This wasnt such a big issue in the past... but it is now.

It is spreading around the world.  That I heard today on the news.  I missed a lot of other stuff going on being away from the t.v. but I did listen to East Coast talk shows where a senator called in.  he attended the mtg. with Paulsen and the others.  I didn't hear the senator's name but he had a strong NY accent, but could have been from anywhere.  i posted it around this board under some different threads.  he was pretty outrageous in his resolution of this chaotic mess.

[George]

Yes.  your mostly right.    BUT, The bailout WONT be to buy companies... it will be to buy the companies troubled assets (IE their Mortgage Backed Securities that are NOT yet in default... but which represent negative equity....  (Ie  100,000 loan, for a house thats now worth 80,000)..

They will NOT pay 100,000 for this loan... they wiill instead pay for the market price of the securities... which will employ something called a reverse auction.

And yes...  in the long run.. many economists beleive that this will be a good investment for the government... but that is debatable

All in all... if the bailout DOES NOT occur... the banks WILL collapse... and the holders of the deposits of these banks will NOT be able to get their $$ from FDIC, since it will simply be too massive to try and save the deposits...  when the news of this hits the street, everyone will pull their $$ out of the banks...causing the other banks to run dry on reserves... cause them to collapse... and wala!!!! you have a depression... where no one trusts the banks... and its next to impossible to get a loan for anything... and the economy will completely hault.

It's not just about it being a good investment (which it isn't) it's about the morality. Government just prints more money and does whatever it wants. 94% of all Americans oppose this bailout yet the politicians are stealing their money. Millions of Americans can't even afford health care or higher education because they're overtaxed. The government has created a situation where there's less and less incentive for intelligent wealthy people to work harder because of the progressive tax and at the same time welfare bums have no incentive to work because they can leech. This is both immoral and unproductive. This is tyranny.

[jaime]

It's not just about it being a good investment (which it isn't) it's about the morality. Government just prints more money and does whatever it wants. 94% of all Americans oppose this bailout yet the politicians are stealing their money. Millions of Americans can't even afford health care or higher education because they're overtaxed. The government has created a situation where there's less and less incentive for intelligent wealthy people to work harder because of the progressive tax and at the same time welfare bums have no incentive to work because they can leech. This is both immoral and unproductive. This is tyranny.
[/quote]

All your posts are great but I picked Ralph's because he used the word tyranny among other great points...94% oppose the bailout.  What I am going to report to you is from a liberal friend of mine who listens to talk radio.  The host's name is Alex Jones on Coast to Coast radio.  I think it is one of his pinko stations he loves so much, the liberal, radical, socialist, etc. that he is, but i've known him for 13-14 yrs.   It was reported on 9/23/08, that Congress is being bombarded by their friends on Wall Street to be reassured that everything would be back to normal: millions and billions in bonuses in their bank accounts, no regulations, etc.  A caller called in and stated that JP Morgan Chase [see link below,] along with Bank of America and some other banking institutions are doing a "military raping," [didn't get the whole dialogue because I can't write or type as fast as they talk,] of other banking/lending institutions.  What is happening is in legal terms [I spoke to a lawyer,] and it was said on this radio show, the Marshall Law is being suspended.  That means all of our rights are being taken away.  I have provided links on Marshall Law.  We could not determine if this is the truth or not.  No one seems to know what is going on! I listened a bit to President Bush and he assures us we will all get our loans.  Please tell me what you think.  All your opinions are appreciated.  Here we go with Marshall Law, but first who JP Morgan Chase is for those in other parts of the world and on that radio show the host said pretty much, in these words: "it's a hoax and affects everyone in every country":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPMorgan_Chase

http://www.survivemartiallaw.com/



"President Bush seized this unprecedented power on the very same day that he signed the equally odious Military Commissions Act of 2006. In a sense, the two laws complement one another. One allows for torture and detention abroad, while the other seeks to enforce acquiescence at home, preparing to order the military onto the streets of America. Remember, the term for putting an area under military law enforcement control is precise; the term is "martial law."

http://www.towardfreedom.com/home/content/view/911/



"And incidentally, in the not too distant past, Richard wrote on this blog how close it appeared that the US and UK were to becoming police states. And from certain quarters, Richard received in reply rather a lot of ridicule. So right here and now Richard unreservedly retracts those remarks."

"Police state? Naw. Not really. Never. It's now even worse than that in America."


http://rickwrites.blogspot.com/2005/12/air-marshal-law-in-america.html

[Dr. Dan]

although I hate guns..i think i have to go get one before they close shop permanently...and if Obama wins...those who don't have a gun for protection will be in biiig trouble...


and what does this have to do with the 700 or 1.6 trillion dollar bailout?

If things happen as Briann describes expect mob rule in many locations because this time the police will not feel like doing their job since their livlihood will be at stake from this collapse.

[jaime]

Agree Dr. Dan.  Not a cop in sight when it gets down to the pilfering in companies if anyone has a job left, home invasions [people feel more comfortable w/money under their mattresses these days.  i read this lol.] and, when they bust into your beautiful home, they have AK4-7, hoods so you can't identify them, they take your car if they feel like, beat the $hit out of you or even kill you.  I have been nagging my SO to get a gun.  Anyone living w/out a gun is nuts.  We need them.  I do not feel safe here and I live in a family oriented community.  It's just that it's near a freeway.  You read so often how crimes are committed and they just disappear on a freeway. 

[Zelhar]

I thing the bailout is necessary for the reasons which briann mentioned. I think the government is not making suckers out of its tax-payers. i think those who oppose the bailout should say what they think is the alternative. And in case they think nothing should be done and just let the banking system to collapse I think it is an insane price to pay for being true to your economical idealism.

[Dan]

NO BAILOUT!
   I think I made my reasons clear before... accountability and responsibility should be priority #1!

[Baltimore]

I do not support the bailout and I question one of the things Brian said and I hope he can answer this.

If there is no bailout some banks will fail some large companies will fail. But once a few fail others will know that the time is now to sell assets. Banks and corporations will sell real estate at pennys on the dollar. Real estate prices will crash. Those of us with cash will be able to afford homes. We are talking about massive deflation.  IF there was a bank run why couldn't the US government print up the money to back up the banks at that point instead of printing up a TRILLION dollars now to bail them out and create massive inflation.  because of the printing press I see no reason to fear that the FDIC $100,000 garantee will disappear.

If this bailout plan happens then expect prices to double on numerous common items very soon. Also expect $6 to $10 for a gallon of gas as investors flock to oil for stability.

[White Israelite]

Agree Dr. Dan.  Not a cop in sight when it gets down to the pilfering in companies if anyone has a job left, home invasions [people feel more comfortable w/money under their mattresses these days.  i read this lol.] and, when they bust into your beautiful home, they have AK4-7, hoods so you can't identify them, they take your car if they feel like, beat the $hit out of you or even kill you.  I have been nagging my SO to get a gun.  Anyone living w/out a gun is nuts.  We need them.  I do not feel safe here and I live in a family oriented community.  It's just that it's near a freeway.  You read so often how crimes are committed and they just disappear on a freeway. 

I'll just use my AK47 then if they break into my house.

[RationalThought110]

I do not support the bailout and I question one of the things Brian said and I hope he can answer this.

If there is no bailout some banks will fail some large companies will fail. But once a few fail others will know that the time is now to sell assets. Banks and corporations will sell real estate at pennys on the dollar. Real estate prices will crash. Those of us with cash will be able to afford homes. We are talking about massive deflation.  IF there was a bank run why couldn't the US government print up the money to back up the banks at that point instead of printing up a TRILLION dollars now to bail them out and create massive inflation.  because of the printing press I see no reason to fear that the FDIC $100,000 garantee will disappear.

If this bailout plan happens then expect prices to double on numerous common items very soon. Also expect $6 to $10 for a gallon of gas as investors flock to oil for stability.

How would things be if the dollar was still backed by gold?

[Ulli]

I just have seen the poll-results.

I am proud of beeing a JTF member 

[briann]

Yes.  your mostly right.    BUT, The bailout WONT be to buy companies... it will be to buy the companies troubled assets (IE their Mortgage Backed Securities that are NOT yet in default... but which represent negative equity....  (Ie  100,000 loan, for a house thats now worth 80,000)..

They will NOT pay 100,000 for this loan... they wiill instead pay for the market price of the securities... which will employ something called a reverse auction.

And yes...  in the long run.. many economists beleive that this will be a good investment for the government... but that is debatable

All in all... if the bailout DOES NOT occur... the banks WILL collapse... and the holders of the deposits of these banks will NOT be able to get their $$ from FDIC, since it will simply be too massive to try and save the deposits...  when the news of this hits the street, everyone will pull their $$ out of the banks...causing the other banks to run dry on reserves... cause them to collapse... and wala!!!! you have a depression... where no one trusts the banks... and its next to impossible to get a loan for anything... and the economy will completely hault.

It's not just about it being a good investment (which it isn't) it's about the morality. Government just prints more money and does whatever it wants. 94% of all Americans oppose this bailout yet the politicians are stealing their money. Millions of Americans can't even afford health care or higher education because they're overtaxed. The government has created a situation where there's less and less incentive for intelligent wealthy people to work harder because of the progressive tax and at the same time welfare bums have no incentive to work because they can leech. This is both immoral and unproductive. This is tyranny.

Regardless of what  Ron Paul has been telling you.. this has NOTHING to do with the 'evil' fed printing money.   The fed isnt even involved in this bailout.

I think its unfortunate that so many people want to believe that this is part of an evil conspiracy... and that all economists are lying when they say exactly what I am saying...  that if this isn't done... we will fall into a depression... quite quickly.