Author Topic: US deploys X-band radar in Israel  (Read 2055 times)

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Offline Fonzworth

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US deploys X-band radar in Israel
« on: October 01, 2008, 10:03:09 PM »
Note: Israeli personnel are barred from the X-band facility

                           


The Raytheon-built FBX-T system is the same phased-array radar that was deployed to northern Japan with the U.S. Pacific Air Forces (PACAF) in 2006. The high-powered, high-frequency, transportable X-band radar is designed to detect and track ballistic missiles soon after launch.

Its ancillary gear included cooling systems, generators, perimeter defense weaponry, logistics supplies and dozens of technicians, maintenance specialists and security forces to operate and defend the U.S. installation.

EUCOM has repeatedly deployed troops and Patriot air defense batteries for joint exercises and Iraq-related wartime contingencies, but has never before permanently deployed troops on Israeli soil.

A EUCOM spokesman declined to comment. MDA officials referred to the U.S. State Department, which did not provide comment by press time.

An Israeli military spokesman said the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) enjoys longstanding strategic cooperation with all branches of the U.S. military.

"This cooperation is varied and comes in multiple forms, and it is not our practice to discuss details of our bilateral activities," he said.

Nevertheless, in previous interviews, U.S. and Israeli officials confirmed that the X-band deployment plan was approved in July, first by Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, and his Israeli counterpart, Lt. Gen. Gabi Ashkenazi; and then by. U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak.
This system is a key element in Israel's defenses against Iran. Here's why.

The radar will be linked to the U.S. Joint Tactical Ground Station (JTAGS), which receives and processes threat data transmitted by U.S. Defense Support System satellites. According to U.S. and Israeli sources, JTAGS will remain in Europe, but its essential cueing data will stream into the forward-deployed X-band radar, where it instantaneously shares information with Israel's Arrow Weapon System.

Once operational, the combined U.S. and Israeli system is expected to double or even triple the range at which Israel can detect, track and ultimately intercept Iranian missiles, according to Lt. Gen. Henry Obering, director of the Pentagon's Missile Defense Agency.

During a visit to Israel in early August, Obering said the X-Band radar could add precious minutes to the time in which Israel has to respond to incoming missile attacks.

"The missile threat from Iran is very real, and we must stay ahead of the threat ... that's why we're working so hard with all our allies to put the most optimized, effective, anti-missile capabilities in place," Obering said.

"In the context of Israel, if we can take the radar out here and tie it into the Arrow Weapon System, they'll be able to launch that interceptor way before they could with an autonomous system," he added.

Ilan Biton, a brigadier general in the Israel Air Force (IAF) reserves and former commander of the nation's air defense forces, could not comment on the latest developments associated with the X-band radar. However, he said that an IAF air defense brigade established during his 2003-2006 tenure has continuously demonstrated its ability to interoperate well with American forces.

"We advanced tremendously on multiple levels and have developed very impressive cooperation," Biton said at a Sept. 22 conference in Herzliya. Referring to bilateral Juniper Cobra air defense exercises and the 2003 deployment of Patriot batteries prior to the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, Biton noted: "At the human level, we've developed a common language and at the technical level, we've put in place the interfaces that allow our systems to speak to one another."

The end result, according to Biton, is a combined ability "to manage battles, execute debriefs and implement corrections, all in real time."
The Americans are hoping that by deploying the X-band system here, they will send a message to Iran that the US will defend Israel against that country, while sending a message to Israel that it can live with a nuclear Iran if it has to.

DEBKA, which first broke the story of the Israelis being unhappy with the lack of Israeli control over the system, points out that Israeli personnel are barred from the X-band facility, but on the other hand says that the link with the JTAGS system will improve Israel's missile detection capabilities.
This is the first time an Israel Defense Forces facility housing an American weapons system has been closed to Israeli military.

The X-band radar has been deployed with cooling systems, generators, perimeter defense weaponry and dozens of technicians and security forces to operate and defend the installation.

The Raytheon system can detect a flying object the size of a baseball at a distance of 4,700 km, fix on its speed and trajectory and convey the data to the Israeli Arrow anti-missile battery. This equals detecting an Iranian Shehab-3 ballistic missile 5.5 minutes after its launch, which means that it is picked up halfway on its 11-minute flight from Iran to bomb targets in Israel, adding precious minutes to Israel’s response time for incoming missile attacks.

Israel has furthermore been given improved access to US satellites capable of identifying missiles at the instant of their launch. Israel will now be directly linked to the satellites - albeit through the US Joint Tactical Ground Station – JTAGS in Europe.
The first picture in this post is of a land-based X-band system of the type deployed in the Negev desert. The other two pictures are of sea-based systems of the type deployed in Japan.

There is no question that Israel is better off with X-band than without it regardless of who controls the system.

http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2008/08/us-to-control-fbx-t-radar-installed-in.html
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3744319&c=MID&s=LAN
http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5617


Offline syyuge

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Re: US deploys X-band radar in Israel
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2008, 10:18:41 AM »
Atleast something good also happens sometimes.
There are thunders and sparks in the skies, because Faraday invented the electricity.

Offline Ulli

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Re: US deploys X-band radar in Israel
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2008, 11:14:54 AM »
Atleast something good also happens sometimes.

Yes very good. If the quranimals will fire their rockets Israel will have a few minutes more time to react.  :)
"Cities run by progressives don't know how to police. ... Thirty cities went up last night, I went and looked at every one of them. Every one of them has a progressive Democratic mayor." Rudolph Giuliani

Offline syyuge

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Re: US deploys X-band radar in Israel
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2008, 03:16:16 PM »
Atleast something good also happens sometimes.

Yes very good. If the quranimals will fire their rockets Israel will have a few minutes more time to react.  :)

Obviously those few minutes are very crucial.
There are thunders and sparks in the skies, because Faraday invented the electricity.

Offline Ulli

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Re: US deploys X-band radar in Israel
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2008, 03:41:16 PM »
Atleast something good also happens sometimes.

Yes very good. If the quranimals will fire their rockets Israel will have a few minutes more time to react.  :)

Obviously those few minutes are very crucial.

Yes, a few minutes are in air-defense an eternity.
"Cities run by progressives don't know how to police. ... Thirty cities went up last night, I went and looked at every one of them. Every one of them has a progressive Democratic mayor." Rudolph Giuliani

Offline Fonzworth

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Re: US deploys X-band radar in Israel
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2008, 03:10:57 PM »
You think the X-Band will be used to spy on Israel

Offline mord

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Re: US deploys X-band radar in Israel
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2008, 03:15:11 PM »
You think the X-Band will be used to spy on Israel
Yes no doubt
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
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Offline Ulli

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Re: US deploys X-band radar in Israel
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2008, 03:15:21 PM »
You think the X-Band will be used to spy on Israel

What?

You can't spy with this kind of radar Fonzworth. It is not able to read e-mails or phone calls. It shows you only what is happening in the airspace.
"Cities run by progressives don't know how to police. ... Thirty cities went up last night, I went and looked at every one of them. Every one of them has a progressive Democratic mayor." Rudolph Giuliani

Offline mord

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Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
Shot at 2010-01-03

Offline Ulli

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Re: US deploys X-band radar in Israel
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2008, 03:19:27 PM »
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,26931.0.html

Mord, the USA know in every minute what is flying in the Israeli airspace. They don't need this radar for it.

Even their ships of the US fleet in the mediterranian see have radar that covers great parts of Israel. In addition to that they have great AWAKS planes flying and this planes are covering even most of the valleys.

This radar is only usefull for air-defense.  :)
"Cities run by progressives don't know how to police. ... Thirty cities went up last night, I went and looked at every one of them. Every one of them has a progressive Democratic mayor." Rudolph Giuliani

Offline mord

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Re: US deploys X-band radar in Israel
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2008, 03:23:08 PM »
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,26931.0.html

Mord, the USA know in every minute what is flying in the Israeli airspace. They don't need this radar for it.

Even their ships of the US fleet in the mediterranian see have radar that covers great parts of Israel. In addition to that they have great AWAKS planes flying and this planes are covering even most of the valleys.

This radar is only usefull for air-defense.  :)
Yes that is true
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
Shot at 2010-01-03

Offline syyuge

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Re: US deploys X-band radar in Israel
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2008, 03:31:37 PM »
http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,26931.0.html

Mord, the USA know in every minute what is flying in the Israeli airspace. They don't need this radar for it.

Even their ships of the US fleet in the mediterranian see have radar that covers great parts of Israel. In addition to that they have great AWAKS planes flying and this planes are covering even most of the valleys.

This radar is only usefull for air-defense.  :)
Yes that is true

Yes, this radar is useful for air-defense, but its basic design and placement may be such that it may be even unintentionally working as a double edged sword.
There are thunders and sparks in the skies, because Faraday invented the electricity.

Offline muman613

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Re: US deploys X-band radar in Israel
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2008, 04:48:46 PM »
Shalom,

At first this X-band radar installation did not bother me. But the more I read about it the more I think it is not a good thing. I think that this will further make Israel a dependent of the US government. Why would Israel allow a foreign nation to set up a military installation in the country if they dont have access to the information.

I am not a conspiracy buff but this stinks to me.

muman613
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Ulli

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Re: US deploys X-band radar in Israel
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2008, 04:54:01 PM »
Shalom,

At first this X-band radar installation did not bother me. But the more I read about it the more I think it is not a good thing. I think that this will further make Israel a dependent of the US government. Why would Israel allow a foreign nation to set up a military installation in the country if they dont have access to the information.

I am not a conspiracy buff but this stinks to me.

muman613


I thought that the Israeli air defense has direct access to the data.  :o

In other case this system makes not really sense.
"Cities run by progressives don't know how to police. ... Thirty cities went up last night, I went and looked at every one of them. Every one of them has a progressive Democratic mayor." Rudolph Giuliani

Offline muman613

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Re: US deploys X-band radar in Israel
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2008, 05:00:01 PM »
Shalom,

At first this X-band radar installation did not bother me. But the more I read about it the more I think it is not a good thing. I think that this will further make Israel a dependent of the US government. Why would Israel allow a foreign nation to set up a military installation in the country if they dont have access to the information.

I am not a conspiracy buff but this stinks to me.

muman613


I thought that the Israeli air defense has direct access to the data.  :o

In other case this system makes not really sense.

Pheasant,

I read an article linked from Carl in Jerusalems http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com which says:

Quote
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1846749,00.html
.
.
.
Israel will have no direct access to the data collected by the radar, which looks like a giant taco. It will only be fed intelligence second hand, on a need-to-know basis, from the Americans — unless the radar picks up an immediate, direct attack on Israel, Israeli sources claim. And Israeli officials expressed concern that the radar's installation may anger Moscow, since its range will enable the U.S. to monitor aircraft in the skies over southern Russia. When the U.S. stationed anti-missile radar and interceptor systems in Poland and the Czech Republic — ostensibly directed at a future Iranian threat, although the Russians believe their own missile capability is its real target — Moscow warned those countries that the move could result in their being added to the target list of Russia's missiles.

If this article is true {we should research} then it doesnt make sense...

muman613
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Ulli

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Re: US deploys X-band radar in Israel
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2008, 05:06:09 PM »
Muman the problem with this would be that the informations from the x-band radar would arrive very probably to late at the Israeli air defense forces.

You need just in time data in air defense, because the Iranian missles are very very fast. They leave the atmosphere an then come back with incredible speed.
"Cities run by progressives don't know how to police. ... Thirty cities went up last night, I went and looked at every one of them. Every one of them has a progressive Democratic mayor." Rudolph Giuliani

Offline muman613

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Re: US deploys X-band radar in Israel
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2008, 11:08:15 PM »
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/127849

Israeli Officials: X-Band Radar May Expose Israeli Secrets to US
by Gil Ronen
(IsraelNN.com) Israeli officials are worried that the advanced X-Band radar system that U.S. military forces have deployed in the Negev recently will expose Israeli secrets to American eyes. Time magazine quoted an unnamed "top official" who said the system will allow the U.S. to keep a close watch on anything moving in Israeli skies, "even a bee."

The official said that while the U.S. is a close ally, Israel nonetheless has aviation secrets it would rather not share. “Even a husband and wife have a few things they’d like to keep from each other,” he explained, and added: “Now we’re standing without our clothes on in front of America.."

'Why did we take this?'
Israeli defense experts are reportedly also worried that waves from the X-band radar might throw off the accuracy of a new Gil anti-tank missile also being tested in the Negev. "The Bush Administration is in the mood to give us anything, as long as we don't attack Iran," said one senior official. "So why did we take this radar?"

Israel will have no direct access to the data collected by the radar and will only be fed intelligence second-hand, on a need-to-know basis, unless the radar picks up an immediate, direct attack on Israel, Israeli sources said.


Israeli officials also expressed concern that the radar’s installation may anger Moscow, since its range will enable the U.S. to monitor aircraft in the skies over southern Russia. When the U.S. stationed anti-missile radar and interceptor systems in Poland and the Czech Republic, Moscow warned those countries that they could be added to the target list of Russia’s missiles.

Doubling the detection range
"This is and will remain a U.S. radar system," Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said. "So this is not something we are giving or selling to the Israelis and it is something that will likely require U.S. personnel on-site to operate." %ad%

Morrell said the X-band radar, developed by Raytheon, would more than double the range of Israel's detection capabilities of enemy missile launches. The Pentagon spokesman did not cite a specific range, but other officials said the U.S. radar would be able to provide detection at a distance of more than 2,000 kilometers.

"This will enable the Israelis to track medium-and-long-range ballistic missiles multiple times better than their current radar allows them to," Morrell said. "So it greatly enhances their self-defense. And we are, if nothing else, committed to the Israelis, Israel's defense."

Info on everything that flies
“America has just as much interest in what is going on in the region as we do,” a senior Israeli defense official explained to the Jerusalem Post. “Keep in mind that while we will receive the radar data, the Americans will be controlling the system and using it for their purposes, as well."

The radar will also provide information on everything that flies – including small objects such as drones – within its range. This will make it possible for the U.S. to know immediately if, for example, Israel moves against Hamas in Gaza or Hizbullah in Lebanon.

Dr. Aaron Lerner of Independent Media Review Analysis (IMRA) commented however that "It isn't clear what 'secrets' about Israel the radar would supply considering that tiny Israel is already well within range of ship-board radar systems."



 :o
muman613
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline syyuge

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Re: US deploys X-band radar in Israel
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2008, 12:04:52 PM »
One thing is sure that G_d forbid, if Nobama gets the throne, then this system may prove to be a boomrang and a liability and may fall in the need of being returned back.
There are thunders and sparks in the skies, because Faraday invented the electricity.