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Is Zionism today worse than exile?

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zachor_ve_kavod:
I had an interesting conversation with my brother tonight.  He suggested that Jews were safer in the exile, when they were chased from place to place.  He said that the proof of this was that they had survived 1900 years of this.  On the other hand, the return of the Jews to Israel puts them all in harm's way.  He therefore concluded that the Jews should not have come back to Israel.

I told him that his argument was true only for those who have no faith in G-d, (which he does not unfortunately).  I said that if you don't have faith in G-d, you cannot see that the return of the Jews to the land is part of an obligation to fulfill a covenant with G-d.

Having said that, I told him that the modern state of Israel as it is today, is not the complete fullfilment of the return to Zion.  It is in someways, more dangerous for the Jews to have an Israel today that is weak and secular.  A state that has democratic rights for those people who want to eliminate the state is insane.

Nasrallah (ym"sh) stated that if the Jews all gather in Israel it would save them the trouble of going after them worldwide.  Ahmadinejad (ym"sh) wants to launch nuclear weapons into Israel.  So it is true that a modern state of Israel is worse than the exile.  But I told my brother that while it is true that the Jews coming to Israel simply to die is worse than the exile, the best thing would be to have a Jewish state where Jews go to live.  If the modern state of Israel could be a strong state that eliminated its enemies before the enemies could eliminate them, that would be the best thing.  A state that remembered the principle "if someone comes to slay you, slay him first", would be the best thing for the Jews.

The exile was an obscenity.  A weak Jewish state is an obscenity.  The only answer for the Jews is a strong JEWISH state.  A secular Israel is not a Jewish state!  A capitulating Israel that allows murderers to go unpunished and worse to continue the killing of Jews is not a Jewish state!  Unfortunately, the state of Israel, as it exists today, is a weak, guilt-ridden, secular ghetto.  The Jews that live there who understand their purpose have no voice.

So I ask you, which is/was worse, the horrendous exile of 1900 years, or this incomplete and unfulfilled return to Zion that is the modern state of Israel?  It can be argued, by the way, that the weak, leftist leaders of Israel have created a state that is a pre-manifestation of the proud and independent Jewish state that we all dream of.  And in that sense, perhaps the diaspora has not yet ended?

judeanoncapta:
More Jews died in the concentration camps in one day than died in all of Israel's wars including the terror attacks.

Therefore, NO, IT IS NOT SAFER IN THE EXILE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kahane-Was-Right BT:
What about with guns tho?   In places Jews are permitted to bear arms, a shoah can't happen right?

q_q_:
Well, the key to living in exile is moving when it gets unsafe.

There was a time before all entry and exit points were shut to jews in poland, when one could leave.

There would have been a problem of where would accept them...

So moving when it gets unsafe.. isn't a perfect workaround to anti-semitism.

I did read an interesting article, that with every calamity, there is some good at the end..
So for example the great jewish community in Poland arose after the Spanish Inquisition.

In these days of nuclear weapons.. Exile is safer!

Safest thing is to live in a large country where the gentiles are not too hated, not too at risk of being nuked.

I think that muslims, though bad for jews in israel, are good for jews in the diaspora. Because it means that the gentiles are more concerned with muslims and not blaming jews on everything. Same with blacks misbehaving.  It means that jews are at risk from minority groups, but that's not such a terrible risk. The danger of the holocaust was the entire German Government was against the jews.  The police force.. And in other countries they occupied. 

Nuclear weapons are the big risk now..

State persecution of jews isn't on the cards at the moment.  Especially with all these other minorities that are so bad!  And the holocaust education is probably doing a good job.

AsheDina:

  The LEFTIST Jews here in USA are turning it into a psychological EXILE.  If you even say that you are a Zionist- people practically look at you, like you should be in JAIL. That is what they are trying to do, NONE of these people know about Jabotinsky- just: "Bush & Zionism is evil" thats all- HOW DO WE STOP THIS?? This is DEFAMATION.

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