General Category > General Discussion
Israel receives Iranian youth for cancer treatment
AryehYehudah:
--- Quote ---There is a difference between Euthanasia {Terminating the life of a medical patient} and destroying evil. I think we have mixed up the definitions here. I have said nothing about killing our enemies which is completely Torah sanctioned. I am sorry if I gave the impression that it is forbidden.
--- End quote ---
Shalom Muman,
I understand you well and respect your knowledge on these subjects. However, I was not talking about euthanizing sick people in need of help. Yes, I can see if a person comes needing help to just kill him would be unethical. What I was talking about was using our tax money in Jewish hospitals to good use. For example, there is many Arabs sitting in prisons for murdering innocent people. They are perfectly healthy and in cold blood, murdered innocent people. I think our tax money would be much better spent killing these people than letting more Jews die so we can heal Arabs so they can go out and kill more of our people. That was my point. This was all hypothetical, nothing I said I really meant literally, I hope you can understand that.
--- Quote ---A Beit Din who executed 7 in 70 years was considered barbaric. Jewish law also makes it extremely difficult to condemn someone to death because of the requirement of having 3 witnesses and having to have rebuked the individual before he commited the offense.
--- End quote ---
The only one thing I question in what you wrote is that in order to put somone to death, we need to rebuke the offender before they commit the crime. Does that mean we were unjustified in killing Adolf Eichmann and even fighting nazi germany? I mean, there must have been many nazis who never were rebuked before helping to put Jews into gas chambers. I like to learn more about the logic of this reasoning and what exceptions or rules the rabbis have adminstered in dealing with these situations I mention. Perhaps, the situation you describe above is for domestic crimes, rather than engagement against an enemy, or do they coincide?
q_q_:
--- Quote from: muman613 on October 14, 2008, 09:28:27 PM ---<snip>
It is a Jewish principle to give people the benefit of the doubt till they prove that they don't deserve such a benefit. Our enemies are not to be trusted and we must stand strong against them. But we also have our morals which make us better than they are. We cannot forsake our moral imperative because we are angry or tired.
I have only stated my opinions on this topic.
--- End quote ---
When yaakov's sons killed the men of shchem, that wasn't about morality/ western morality.
Rabbi Meir Kahane said something along the lines of "i'm tired of being more moral than they are"
(some say yaakov rebuked them for excess, others not. Rabbi Binyamin Kahane said not)
Rabbi Meir Kahane also pointed out in his debate with Dershowitz, that the Torah is not about morality. Killing Amelek, all of them, men women and children, is not moral.
there is the text in the shulchan aruch and talmud - that if the enemy come , even just to take straw, you go to war with them.
Here is something easily found with google regarding that
google enemy straw war torah
When it is a city close to the border, then, even if they want to come only for the purpose of [taking] straw and stubble, we desecrate the Shabbos because of them; for [if we do not prevent their coming] they may conquer the city, and from there the [rest of the] land will be easy for them to conquer.
(Shulchan Aruch, Orach Chaim 329:6)
(found from this site http://www.truepeace.org/ihalachah.htm though I don't know about rest of the site.. I picked up the passage via google )
Here is a site I have used a few times, it speaks of the same thing, but references the talmud.
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/ideas_belief/warpeace/War_TO_Combat/War_Types_Hartman/War_Defensive_Dorff.htm
gives a description, and mentions talmud tractate eruvin 45b
Rabbi Meir Kahane has also said, in audio radio show, when asked if he believes in an eye for an eye. He had to give succinct answers. He very cleverly responded "I believe in two eyes for an eye".
AryehYehudah:
I was speaking of Euthansia not in the medical sense, but spiritual sense. Arabs are sick people who need to be quickly and with the least amount of suffering put to death. IT was more of a metaphor, sorry some people could not understand it. Interesting post, q_q.. I will have to investigate your links , because I am a bit confused on what you wrote; however some of it made sense to me. I feel in the case where people try to cause harm against G-d, his Shabbos and his People, then those people must be destroyed or fought to prevent them from succeeding in their evil deeds. Rabbi Meir Kahane certainly was correct in his analsyis and it coincides perfectly with Tanach as I have read it. Israel never spared her enemies when they were a major threat. Yes, cutting a baby's throat is not moral, but done of out necessity to save our race from our own extinction. When G-d told us to eradicate a village, as the people were threatening to destroy u, we did what was necessary for survival. Kill or be killed.
q_q_:
--- Quote from: AryehYehudah on October 16, 2008, 08:10:08 AM ---I was speaking of Euthansia not in the medical sense, but spiritual sense. Arabs are sick people who need to be quickly and with the least amount of suffering put to death. IT was more of a metaphor, sorry some people could not understand it. Interesting post, q_q.. I will have to investigate your links , because I am a bit confused on what you wrote; however some of it made sense to me. I feel in the case where people try to cause harm against G-d, his Shabbos and his People, then those people must be destroyed or fought to prevent them from succeeding in their evil deeds. Rabbi Meir Kahane certainly was correct in his analsyis and it coincides perfectly with Tanach as I have read it. Israel never spared her enemies when they were a major threat. Yes, cutting a baby's throat is not moral, but done of out necessity to save our race from our own extinction. When G-d told us to eradicate a village, as the people were threatening to destroy u, we did what was necessary for survival. Kill or be killed.
--- End quote ---
I wouldn't say "save our race"
rabbi kahane never referred to jews as a race. We are a religio-nation.
A nation, a people.
Anybody that converts is a part of the jewish people 100%.
You may say there are certain things they cannot do. But the fact is that there are certain things that Cohanim do and cannot do, and they have more responsibility than Leviim. Both boht kohanim and leviim are 100% jewish, not one more than the other. Converts are considered 100% jewish, and very respected. even moreso, since there is a commandment to love the convert as well as the fellow jew . So 2 commanments there.
The RAMBAM wrote a letter to a convert about this issue.
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