Author Topic: Shalom  (Read 30651 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Scriabin

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3123

Offline Americanhero1

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 7617
  • I ain't going anywhere
Re: What is a good starter gun?
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2008, 11:55:37 AM »

Offline Americanhero1

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 7617
  • I ain't going anywhere
Re: What is a good starter gun?
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2008, 11:58:10 AM »

Offline Scriabin

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3123
Re: What is a good starter gun?
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2008, 12:00:27 PM »
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=83165


Revolvers are simple and utterly reliable.

Glocks and other semi-autos are more complex and capable of jamming.

I like simplicity.

Offline Ulli

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10946
Re: What is a good starter gun?
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2008, 12:18:13 PM »
Those semi-autos are expensive and not the best for a beginner.



What is the price of one HK USP in the USA?
$840.88



This gun is good, but Scribarin is right. I would not pay this price.

I think I would take the revolver too.

For self-defense it is adequate.
"Cities run by progressives don't know how to police. ... Thirty cities went up last night, I went and looked at every one of them. Every one of them has a progressive Democratic mayor." Rudolph Giuliani

Offline White Israelite

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4535
Re: What is a good starter gun?
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2008, 10:01:30 PM »
Isn't it best to just train with the type of gun you intend to shoot?  Some guns are not practical for all situations.  Carrying a large .45 caliber may not be necessary on the city streets; however, out in the forest/wilderness, you can forget about a .38 saving your life against a charging angry, rabid or just adrenaline pumped bear or even a mountain lion.  Beginner or expert, you should train for the situation you need. 

I thought this was a good article..  I am not a gun expert, but have a basic interest.  I, don't really use handguns, but I do plan on training soon..  I spend most time in forest, so I would like to start with larger handguns, myself, since fighting off wild animals, like grizzlies or large black bears usually would require it.   Not that I go out of my way looking for this type of ordeal, but I have had a few run-ins!  Of course, when Barack Hussein comes into power, the only wild animals you will have to really worry about hiding in the forest, are islamonazis.

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/xd-45acp-discussion-room/69185-45-acp-beginner-3.html

.45 ACP is self sufficient for self defense, I would avoid 9mm.

I personally recommend a handgun in .40 S&W, preferrably Glock or Springfield XD.

I had this during my service and I can tell it is safe, easy to use and very robust.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HK_USP

The younger soldiers that were on training could handle it after a few days very well and they hit more often the target than with the old P1.

I own a USP, damn fine handgun, overengineered and very ergonomic to me :)



http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=83165


Revolvers are simple and utterly reliable.

Glocks and other semi-autos are more complex and capable of jamming.

I like simplicity.

You ever seen the torture tests on Glocks and modern semi-autos? Military standard testing below



The HK USP is probably the most thoroughly tested pistol ever produced. The testing process of the USP, already extreme in exceeding strict NATO AC-225 Military Specification Standards, in many ways mirrors the regimen the HK SOCOM pistol was subjected to .

The barrel of the USP is cold-hammer forged from high-grade chromium steel, the same type of steel used in cannon barrels. During testing, a bullet was deliberately lodged in a USP barrel. Another cartridge was then fired into the obstructing bullet. The second bullet cleared the barrel, resulting in a barely noticeable bulge. The pistol was then fired for accuracy and the resulting group measured less than 2.5 inches at 25 meters.

Other less destructive tests reveal much about USP reliability and durability. Function testing a wide selection of ammunition types, one test gun fired more than 10,000 rounds without a single malfunction. That means no stove-pipes, no failures to feed o r eject; no jams! Endurance firings of test samples has passed 20,000 rounds of high performance .40 S&W ammo without any parts failures. Sever temperature tests required the USP to be frozen at -44 degrees F (-42 degrees C) and then fired, frozen again a nd quickly heated to 153 degrees F (67 degrees C), and then fired again. These temperature spectrum tests were continually repeated, and with no adverse effects on the USP.

Demanding NATO Mil-Spec mud and rain tests were conducted, again with the USP passing without difficulty. Water immersion and salt spray also presented no problems to the USP. Outside metal surfaces of the USP are covered with an extremely hard nitro-gas carburized and black oxidized finish.

All internal metal parts, including springs, are coated with a special Dow-Corning process that reduces friction and wear. Both the internal and external finishes have proved to be especially corrosion resistant. For more than two years, German Navy comba t divers have used the same process on weapons parts without any signs of rust.

Safety testing exceeded the ANSI/SAAMI requirements adopted in May 1990. These included dropping a USP with a primed cartridge and decocked hammer on a variety of surfaces without discharging. The USP easily surpassed these commercial requirements, as wel l as German police tests, including repeated drop tests from six feet, hammer first, onto a steel backed concrete slab. Proof round firing resulted in no cracks, deformations, or increase in head space. attempts to fire the USP pistol with an unlocked bre ech proved impossible.

The HK recoil reduction system (patent pending), a mechanical dual spring buffering device, is another feature common to the USP and the HK SOCOM pistol. During the USP testing phase, HK engineers discovered this innovative unit reduces the peak force act ing on the USP grip to less than 300 Newtons (66 pounds). Peak force shock on competing .40 caliber polymer and metal framed pistols climbed to more than 5000 Newtons (1102 pounds).

The primary benefit of low peak shock is a decrease in wear and tear on pistol components. Reduction in peak shock forces also contributes to softer recoil for the shooter, although these "felt recoil" values are much more subjective.

Excerpted from the 1993 Edition of Sentinel Magazine.

Testing Data

Information provided by HK, Incorporated

Tolerance Inspection              Trigger Pull, firing pin energy and
                                         protrusion, headspace, caliber,
                                         velocities, etc.

Safety Inspection                 Controls and safeties

                                         Proof firing (2 Winchester DP40 proof
                                         rounds)

Targeting                         Zeroing (25 meters, POA/POI)

                                         Ammunition compatibility

                                            More than 85,000 rounds fired thus
                                            far during testing of the USP40

                                         Accuracy (USP40, 10 shots, 25 meters)
                                                   
                                            Most accurate (3.2 - 3.9 in.)

Reliability/functional test       20,000 round reliability test
                                            Fired in various attitudes, checked
                                            every 1,000 rounds for cracked or
                                            broken parts and for accuracy.
                                            slide manually cycled 1,000 times
                                            after each 10,000 rounds fired.

                                         No normal wear detected in less than
                                         5,100 rounds

                                         USP40 and USP9 perfect record through
                                         first half of the test. Second half
                                         of test ongoing at time of writing
                                         (This document
                                         was printed in August of 1993.)

Barrel obstruction test           Live round fired with projectile
                                         positioned at forcing cone and
                                         30mm into muzzle.

                                            No damage to pistol.
                                            Accuracy unaffected.

Drop tests                        According to SAMMI/ANSI Z299.5/1990 and
                                         German BMI test methods. Primed case in
                                         chamber, 13 dummy rounds loaded, hammer cocked,
                                         safety/decocking lever set to "fire"
                                            All six sixes of weapon, plus 45 degree top
                                            muzzle, onto rubber from height of 4 feet.

                                            Six times onto cocked hammer onto steel/concrete
                                            from height of 3 and 6.7 feet.

                                         No ignition or primer indent permitted. Pistol must
                                         function normally after tests are completed.

Noise level test                  Measured in dB (A) height of muzzle, 1 meter front
                                         and left of muzzle.

                                            Winchester and Remington 180gr JHP=139 dB

                                            Remington 155gr JHP=143.5 dB

Fouling test                      1,000 rounds w/o cleaning or lubrication

                                            Comparable to S&W 4006

Environment test (NATO AC225-D14) Low temp (-46 C, -51 F)

                                         High temp (63 C, 145 F)
                                         Thermal shock (-46 to +63 C)
                                         Mud bath (10 minutes exposure)
                                         Particulate (sand)  (10 minute exposure)
                                         Freezing rain (1 hour to -46 C)

http://www.streetpro.com/usp/torture.html

Plus you get more capacity with a semi-auto.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2008, 10:08:01 PM by White Israelite »

Offline Scriabin

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3123
Re: What is a good starter gun?
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2008, 12:13:19 AM »
Revolvers are simple and utterly reliable.

Glocks and other semi-autos are more complex and capable of jamming.

I like simplicity.
You ever seen the torture tests on Glocks and modern semi-autos? Military standard testing below

Revolvers are simple and reliable.

Furthermore, this guy is asking for a starter gun.

Offline White Israelite

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4535
Re: What is a good starter gun?
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2008, 03:55:28 PM »
Revolvers are simple and utterly reliable.

Glocks and other semi-autos are more complex and capable of jamming.

I like simplicity.
You ever seen the torture tests on Glocks and modern semi-autos? Military standard testing below

Revolvers are simple and reliable.

Furthermore, this guy is asking for a starter gun.

A semi-auto is fine for a starter gun and he can obtain one under 500 dollars.

A revolver isn't immune to problems, i've seen cylinders misalign.

Here's how you field strip a glock, very easy and barely any parts.

less than 10 seconds


Offline Scriabin

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 3123
Re: What is a good starter gun?
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2008, 10:57:06 PM »

Thanks, this is all very helpful.  Any recommendations on some good starter rifles/shotguns?

The Remington 870 Express:


Offline Americanhero1

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 7617
  • I ain't going anywhere
Re: What is a good starter gun?
« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2008, 11:50:50 PM »

Thanks, this is all very helpful.  Any recommendations on some good starter rifles/shotguns?

The Remington 870 Express:



That is a good one

I have this Mossberg 500 Persuader

Offline White Israelite

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4535
Re: What is a good starter gun?
« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2008, 01:26:01 AM »
Mossberg 590.

Offline basil06

  • New JTFer
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: What is a good starter gun?
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2009, 10:32:16 AM »
personally i think all guns should be destroyed and any disput sorted out without any violence and the world would be a better place for all religions. :dance:

Offline Americanhero1

  • Silver Star JTF Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 7617
  • I ain't going anywhere
Re: What is a good starter gun?
« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2009, 10:55:57 AM »
personally i think all guns should be destroyed and any disput sorted out without any violence and the world would be a better place for all religions. :dance:

Good for you

Offline White Israelite

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4535
Re: What is a good starter gun?
« Reply #38 on: January 19, 2009, 01:34:18 PM »
personally i think all guns should be destroyed and any disput sorted out without any violence and the world would be a better place for all religions. :dance:

Good point, guns should be destroyed so the weak and the elderly can't defend themselves against the physically strong, or women should be raped by men because guns don't exist, or Jews should be murdered by Nazis because guns don't exist because we all know that we're capable of fighting superior numbers without arms, gee why didn't I think of that  ::)

SARCASM

Offline SW

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 2958
Re: What is a good starter gun?
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2009, 07:05:58 AM »
Wow, all these guns are looking great! I wanna one  ;D

Offline ProudAndZionist

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2410
  • PPE
Re: What is a good starter gun?
« Reply #40 on: February 22, 2009, 08:00:43 AM »
I got my first gun when I was 11 years old, it was an air rifle called Slavia 630.  :dance: ;)

We are giants, giants in love...and if you ask that who are we, then you must be a dwarf.

Offline SW

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 2958
Re: What is a good starter gun?
« Reply #41 on: February 22, 2009, 08:09:30 AM »
I got my first gun when I was 11 years old, it was an air rifle called Slavia 630.  :dance: ;)



Nice weapon

Offline ProudAndZionist

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2410
  • PPE
Re: What is a good starter gun?
« Reply #42 on: February 22, 2009, 09:11:30 AM »
I got my first gun when I was 11 years old, it was an air rifle called Slavia 630.  :dance: ;)



Nice weapon

When will you buy the Zoraki 914 Gas-blank pistol? You can buy with your father, only can't wear it on the street, but if you will be 18 and requir permession you will be able to wear it everywhere.  :)
We are giants, giants in love...and if you ask that who are we, then you must be a dwarf.

Offline SW

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 2958
Re: What is a good starter gun?
« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2009, 11:04:56 AM »
I think in April when I am 18

Offline ProudAndZionist

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2410
  • PPE
Re: What is a good starter gun?
« Reply #44 on: February 22, 2009, 11:48:22 AM »
I think in April when I am 18

Save your money for the buy then. ;) And don't afraid to use it! :P
We are giants, giants in love...and if you ask that who are we, then you must be a dwarf.

Offline SW

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 2958
Re: What is a good starter gun?
« Reply #45 on: February 22, 2009, 12:06:03 PM »
I will not be afraid to use it. ;)

I will shot my enemy to the ground!

Offline ProudAndZionist

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2410
  • PPE
Re: What is a good starter gun?
« Reply #46 on: February 22, 2009, 12:44:47 PM »
 :dance:Cool
We are giants, giants in love...and if you ask that who are we, then you must be a dwarf.

Offline SW

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 2958
Re: What is a good starter gun?
« Reply #47 on: February 22, 2009, 01:03:22 PM »
I like your pic... you and the israeli flag! Great!!!

Offline ProudAndZionist

  • Master JTFer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2410
  • PPE
Re: What is a good starter gun?
« Reply #48 on: February 22, 2009, 01:05:05 PM »
I like your pic... you and the israeli flag! Great!!!

And the beautiful Jewish and Israeli girls like it too, they add me on facebook, since I added this picture there.  ;D Thanks brother by the way. :) Do you like the AMD 65? I think its beautiful gun!
We are giants, giants in love...and if you ask that who are we, then you must be a dwarf.

Offline SW

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 2958
Re: What is a good starter gun?
« Reply #49 on: February 22, 2009, 01:31:54 PM »
I like every gun! Give me a gun and I will go to a mosque and make a party