Why do people deny the truth? Some thoughts.

[zachor_ve_kavod]

The very first holocaust deniers were the nazis (ym"sh) themselves.  Aktion 1005 was an effort to dig up mass graves and burn the corpses of murdered Jews (may G-d avenge their blood).  Sobibor, Treblinka, and Belzec were destroyed by the end of 1943.  Trees were planted on the site.  The nazis made a great effort to hide the evidence of their crimes, but in this they failed.  We have irrefutable proof now about some of the smallest details of the holocaust.  It cannot be denied.  Yet, there are still people who deny that the holocaust happened at all.  Why do they do this?

Fast forward 60 years and muslims have committed terrorist attacks on 9/11 in America, the London bombings on 7/7, and the Madrid bombings.  These are just three of hundreds of muslim attacks in the last few years.  (For a detailed list of muslim terrorist attacks, see thereligionofpeace.com).  Now there is a campaign by "truthers" to deny the "official" version of these attacks.  They say that 9/11 was an inside job or that the Jews did it.  The make similar claims about the London and Madrid bombings.  They deny that these events were committed by muslim terrorists despite the fact that there is irrefutable evidence that proves who was responsible for these attacks.  More importantly, we have the word of the muslims themselves who admit that they carried out these attacks.  So why do people deny the official version fo events on 9/11, Madrid, and London?

The answer is really quite simple.  There is no better way to further the cause of nazism and Islam and make these ideologies more attractive to prospective converts, than to convince people that the greatest crimes of these two evil groups did not take place, or at least did not take place in the fashion in which these crimes are described.  On google video, almost all of the videos about 9/11 are conspiracy videos--almost all.  Youtube is not quite as bad, but I would say that maybe slightly more than half of the videos about 9/11 are conspiracy videos.  It is very distressing to see how pervasive these videos are.  Make no mistake, the purpose of denying the truth of these events is part of the war we face.

Not everyone who denies the truth of 9/11 is a muslim.  Some of them are just Leftists, who hate America and Jews and the West.  The nazis and the muslims are our enemies, but they are not our only enemies.  We still face the threat of communism; that threat never really went away.  And we face an attack on our values, by Leftists who claim that they are more virtuous than we are.  These groups are also tied closely with the so-called "truth movements".

So what do we do?  I think the very first thing that we must do is change the basic discourse surrounding "truth movements".  These people are very good at using their constitutional rights to their advantage.  They claim that they are for honest and open inquiry and that claims to the contrary are an imposition on their rights.  We must put a stop to this.  We can do this by attacking each one individually.  None of them are real honest scholars.  Every single one of them make these lies because of their political agenda.  These agenda need to be exposed.  This is not hard to do. 

I wrote a paper years ago on holocaust denial.  One of the groups I studied was the IHR (Institute for Historical Review).  First, I demolished their claims, then I took a close look at their members.  I found out what fascist associations they kept and I documented this.  I was able to show very quickly (and it was really not hard at all) what type of neo-nazi groups these members were a part of, and what their personal interests were in denying the holocaust.  Now I think we should try to do this with the modern conspiracy theorists.

In sum, the two pronged approach to defeating these horrific groups and individuals, is to first disprove their claims, and second, to show what their personal motives are.  If we do this, I think we have a good chance of defeating them.

[q_q_]

They think that we persecute "palestinians" in revenge for the holocaust.. And that the world allows us to because they feel guilty for the holocaust..

neo nazis believe that jews try to make the world guilty by using the holocaust..

I recall a conversation with a muslim(About a dozen actually), and one of them said "you're going to mention the holocaust, aren't you?".  To which I replied that the only person that has mentioned the holocaust is him.

They also know that it makes jews annoyed and so they like it.

[cjd]

They think that we persecute "palestinians" in revenge for the holocaust.. And that the world allows us to because they feel guilty for the holocaust..

neo nazis believe that jews try to make the world guilty by using the holocaust..

I recall a conversation with a muslim(About a dozen actually), and one of them said "you're going to mention the holocaust, aren't you?".  To which I replied that the only person that has mentioned the holocaust is him.

They also know that it makes jews annoyed and so they like it.

I have been around quite a few holocaust deniers and have never had that one tossed up at me but I often head them off before they can really get rolling. Most muslims here in America know they are on thin ice and hesitate to come out with something like that in mixed company. Some years back I came across a book called Treblinka written by Jean-Francois Steiner this book should be handed to anyone that thinks the holocaust is less then what it really was. The book is one of the most powerful accounts of what evil really happened in that camp and the extent that the nazi's  went to to cover over their crime. Anyone that can come back after reading that account and still maintain their original position is just as evil at hart as the nazi's were. The problem here in America for the most part is disinterest because of the fact that in most parts of the country Jews are a small minority and the issue is so far removed from everyday life. Most people go with what they hear and form a haphazard opinion often wrong about what really took place. Most folks when presented with some facts will back off but the ones with an agenda are another story. The best anyone can do with them in most cases is disrupt them from preaching their lies.

[q_q_]

They think that we persecute "palestinians" in revenge for the holocaust.. And that the world allows us to because they feel guilty for the holocaust..

neo nazis believe that jews try to make the world guilty by using the holocaust..

I recall a conversation with a muslim(About a dozen actually), and one of them said "you're going to mention the holocaust, aren't you?".  To which I replied that the only person that has mentioned the holocaust is him.

They also know that it makes jews annoyed and so they like it.

I have been around quite a few holocaust deniers and have never had that one tossed up at me but I often head them off before they can really get rolling. Most muslims here in America know they are on thin ice and hesitate to come out with something like that in mixed company. Some years back I came across a book called Treblinka written by Jean-Francois Steiner this book should be handed to anyone that thinks the holocaust is less then what it really was. The book is one of the most powerful accounts of what evil really happened in that camp and the extent that the nazi's  went to to cover over their crime. Anyone that can come back after reading that account and still maintain their original position is just as evil at hart as the nazi's were. The problem here in America for the most part is disinterest because of the fact that in most parts of the country Jews are a small minority and the issue is so far removed from everyday life. Most people go with what they hear and form a haphazard opinion often wrong about what really took place. Most folks when presented with some facts will back off but the ones with an agenda are another story. The best anyone can do with them in most cases is disrupt them from preaching their lies.

This was when I confronted a person handing out leaflets at an anti-israel stand, pretty soon more and more muslims came along to help the leaflet person.. I was debating them all very effectively.   I know/understand muslims very well.    Some jews spoke to me about it afterwards, they said they were going to help but saw I was doing pretty well on my own..  they were quite interested in the proceedings.

speaking to muslims generally.. i've heard "Israel is a bastard state"..
an asian background muslim said "jews should go back to europe or wherever you come from".   British muslims are fairly bold..

we have a program called Sharia TV. Some of the early episodes were absolute classics.  Muslim teenagers more extreme than the wahabi imams!!

[Lisa]

q_q, tell us what you say to these people!  Inquiring minds what to know. 

[q_q_]

q_q, tell us what you say to these people!  Inquiring minds what to know. 

I remember, but it's a tough one 'cos it really requires a full explanation..
I'm not sure how applicable it is to other debates but it just worked perfectly, I looked like a courageous genius.. which is good because muslims more than most gentiles, assume that all jews are the way they see one jew. Jewish strength is a kiddush hashem.

here are some highlights.

There were a few lines, like

when they were talking about dismantling settlements.. I said
"If arabs can live in the jewish state(as they do), then why can't jews live in the arab state"
(apparently sometimes they respond with something like - well, allow the pre 1948 jews to. But they didn't.. It put the muslim into complete silence actually acknowledging the point)

There were about a dozen of them.. firing different questions at me

Another great line  (a bit of a silly one but it worked a treat)
The muslim female handing out the leaflets was discussing something with me, and I mentioned A7. She said that is "right wing"..  I said "That's your opinion"(that was a bit of a trap for her!).
She said "It's not an opinion, it's a fact"
I said "And where did you derive that fact?"
There is a silence, she is surrounded by all these muslims and me facing her, and she is  really lost for words.  After about 5 seconds of silence, I pointed at her and said "You derived it from yourself, that's why it's not a fact, it's an opinion".
She went bright red.. and after a pause, she says quite loudly as if asking for help   "He's really provoking me"..
So I  put my palms out but in a confident way, like an old logic professor, and I said very confidently in the same tone that he would have said it " **I'm** not provoking anybody".  At one point she said her legs were shaking.  (I might have said ok and left at that point, i'm not sure.. But I did come back later).
These people handing out leaflets just want to hand out the leaflets and get people interested in palestinian human rights.  They don't like being debated.

The girl that set up the stand wasn't behind the table. She was really intelligent, but she didn't really respond to me, she was concerned about her stand, that it wasn't looking good and was causing problems for them. Not necessarily that I was winning the debate(I certainly was), but she could have responded herself.  I think it was more that she didn't want an incident causing complaints and her not being able to put her stand up. And she wanted to focus on the plight of poor palestinians, she isn't able to do  that when her stand provokes  a heated debate.  Also, people handing out leaflets want to reach as many people as possible with their information.. Not get distracted by one person..

[Gentile]

How can any rational communication possibly come from palestinians as long as quacks like hamas have any say-so anywhere?

As far as people arguing the holocaust was a lie, I would not waste time nor breath with such disillusioned minds.  I turn on TV and see arm-pumping hitler youths and wonder how can people become so brain-washed--they’re no different than islamic terrorists.

To me, what the nazis did was far more genocidal than holocaustic--both Jews and Christians died there--and hamas, al-qaeda, taliban, et al. desire no less for us today; they have proclaimed it to the whole world and apparently nobody cares, heck the media loves it.  Is the world scared of islam?  Screw em!

I hope and pray things will be vastly different after olmert is finally gone, that is if he doesn’t give away the whole of Israel first.

Sorry for the ranting but this Gaza and West Bank stuff sticks in my craw.

[muman613]

Most rappers die from the violence they incite. I hope that this poor example of a human being catches a glimpse of the bullet which explodes his head. May he die a painful death...

[Dr. Dan]

THey deny things like this because they konw it's true and hate Jews and wish them to be eliminated to begin with.  THeir children are tought the same myth so they are taught to hate Jews and the reality is that they don't know why...their truth becomes JEw hatred just as we are taught that the sky is blue and not green.

[Ambiorix]

I think Israel's establishment is showing weakness to the arabs.  If the current policy continues Israel will be another muslim nation in 1 or 2 generations.
Yes of course muslims are spreading "the protocols of zion", deny the Holocaust, show the effects of the "occupation" on the "innocent palestinians" and so on. That is the core of their propaganda.

It is important, is to have effective counterpropaganda. Right now, at least on European TV , the Arab/PLO/nazis are winning the media-battle against Israel. The EU - crowd thinks, the ArabPLOMuslimNAzis are victims of the so-called Israeli Apartheid regime, just like the Jews were victims of the Germans nazis.
Then the EU-people choose the arab side, because : "Do not do to others what would anger you if done to you by others";

[q_q_]

How can any rational communication possibly come from palestinians as long as quacks like hamas have any say-so anywhere?

As far as people arguing the holocaust was a lie, I would not waste time nor breath with such disillusioned minds.  I turn on TV and see arm-pumping hitler youths and wonder how can people become so brain-washed--they’re no different than islamic terrorists.

To me, what the nazis did was far more genocidal than holocaustic--both Jews and Christians died there--and hamas, al-qaeda, taliban, et al. desire no less for us today; they have proclaimed it to the whole world and apparently nobody cares, heck the media loves it.  Is the world scared of islam?  Screw em!

I hope and pray things will be vastly different after olmert is finally gone, that is if he doesn’t give away the whole of Israel first.

Sorry for the ranting but this Gaza and West Bank stuff sticks in my craw.

The thing with the genocide against jews, is that it was around 60% of european jewry..    Maybe 40% of jewry worldwide. 
I don't know how badly sephardim were affected, but for ashkenazim, every family tree has bits missing.  Peoples' Grandparents most of whome were lucky enough to have moved to britain or america, they lost their siblings or cousins or uncles.
Entire locations of jews in the world shifted..  The Jewish world of russia poland Austria and Germany was eradicated completely. And great sages from those places came to britain and america where there was nothing, and tried to recreate from scratch, what had been lost.

Hamas aren't "quacks", they just want all the land and are willing to fight for it and kill innocent people for it. The whole "palestinian" population are no different.