It's possible that I've seen a more hideous group of people, but I can't think of any right now. How can any Jew with an ounce of sanity prefer exile over living in their own land? Do they perhaps have a romanticized view of galut history? These Jews are primarily from Hungary. Do they not remember the 400,000+ Jews who were deported and murdered from Hungary in the summer of 1944? Shouldn't that have made it clear to them that we are not meant to live among the nations? And I'm just curious, why do these Jews, who make the attempt to follow hallacha faithfully, stop at G-d's commandment to live in the land He gave to Abraham? I admit fully, I am guilty of not living inside Israel also, but I wouldn't actively seek to destroy those who do. I think they are being better Jews than I am. Is that what is troubling these people--that they can't stand that there are other Jews who are fulfilling a mitzvot that they are not? Are they jealous and resentful? The bottom line is, I am not interested in their psychology. If they are an enemy of the state of Israel, then they are an enemy of the Jewish people. I am reminded of a quotation that seems particularly relevant here:
"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banners openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their garments, and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can not longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared."
Cicero, 42 B.C.E.
They are not to be feared because the only "harm" they do is they make our enemies say that they are against zionism not judaism, zionists not jews..
Even in the case in 1929 where the arabs murdered religious anti-zionists..before the state existed. It was the idea of zionism that bothered them, a jewish state of any size.
Before then, jews and christians were pretty much equally persecuted.. in arab countries.
What summarizes arab treatment of jews and dhimmitude, is something somebody a NK type said to me, when he saw that I understood..
Now this is important, it's a profound point that most people do not know about the NK and perhaps also the satmar mentality.
This NK type said - they would not have hurt us, they needed us, we were like donkeys for them.
Do you see.. All they want from goyim is to be left alone to keep the Torah, they don't seek out or ask for or try to get respect.
(they obviously prefer to be respected. They do live in america rather than the arab world. Better health care, more freedom-not getting bossed around, but they wouldn't hold placards asking for that)
Here is another example I heard in an interview Harold Channer gave Rabbi Dovid Weiss. Channer(a bumbling secular anti-zionist), played "devils advocate", and put the basic secular zionist stance to rabbi dovid weiss, a stance that Channer seemed to have some sympathy for. The stance was something like.. Just as every people has its land, and religions too most of them(christians have rome, muslims macca).. so the jewish people should have their land. (he meant ruling it of course) So, NK's dovid weiss said "No", and that it's not Judaism.
Channer then said, but blacks campaigned for equal rights.. they didn't want to be discriminated against. Why can't jews? Dovid Weiss said, jews just want to be allowed to follow the Torah, and we don't want anything else.
That view is not a view people are aware of.
Another point, and most religious jews understand. Secular anti-zionism may well be anti-semitism - discriminating against jews. But religious anti-zionism is not.
One thing though that I think is actually possibly anti-semitic , was that which Rabbi Ahron Cohen said, which I started the thread with.
I know that charedim when the righteous are killed, they don't like it but they see it as a korban/sacrifice to G-d, dying al kiddush hashem, sanctifying G-d's name. But since they see zionists as big sinners, this can't even be explained that way at all. It just looks like anti-semitism .. I guess they see it as a chillul hashem, a public sin, and that zionists deserve to die. I don't know how they'd -try to- justify a statement like that.
You mention the holocaust. But in their view the gedolim were not wrong, and cannot be, and they said stay in poland , and died in kiddush hashem.
(I wonder though if given the chance again, if they would have left, as anti-zionists, to israel). They would see the holocaust as a punishment for some sin.. maybe reform, maybe zionism, they would probably say zionism.
Rabbi Kahane suggested that it was punishment for the sin of -not- going to israel! That actually makes alot of sense naturally , because if G-d wants us to go to israel, and we don't go of our own volition, then maybe he would force us there through persecution.. (though we are persecuted there too.. though that could be explained - naturally- as the sin of keeping arabs - gentiles that don't accept the 7 noachide laws - in our land. Or the sin of merely risking jewish lives by keeping arabs - killers - in our land)
Topic: was NK. Now,charedi thinking, Dying Al Kiddush Hashem, vs the chillul hashem. (Read 3845 times)