Author Topic: Get ready for fireworks on this Sunday's Ask JTF!  (Read 8207 times)

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Offline jsullivan

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Get ready for fireworks on this Sunday's Ask JTF!
« on: March 09, 2007, 03:00:25 AM »
Yekutiel's forum is full of endless vicious personal attacks against Chaim and JTF. Literally hundreds of posts spouting the most venomous lies and slander by jealous, hateful informers and rats.

I finally attempted to respond with just one post, and it was immediately deleted.

The forum has posters like Sababa who called me a "shagitz", which means a male Gentile in Yiddish, but the context in this case was intended to be derogatory. These hypocrites call Chaim a "racist" for condemning black Jew-haters. But the same frauds who call Chaim a racist condemn me simply because I am a Gentile. That's not racist?

I will let Chaim know what is going on there before he does the program. I already posted a question that will give Chaim a chance to respond to the ugly jealously and hatred on that forum that we have been ignoring for a long time.

Just for the record: Yekutiel has personally posted messages on the JTF Forum, and his admins have posted here many times. We never deleted a single word from any of their posts. I do not believe that we should allow them to post here anymore if they are going to attack us on their forum and then delete our very first response.
 
Incidentally, the reason for their hatred and jealously is because our forum is much more active than theirs. We usually have ten times as many people on our forum as they do. That's despite the fact that our forum is only nine months old, while their forum has been around for many years.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2007, 03:42:04 AM by jsullivan »

Din Rodef

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Re: Get ready for fireworks on this Sunday's Ask JTF!
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2007, 03:47:20 AM »
The only reason I know who these people are is because they are mentioned at JTF

Is it possible to ignore them? ...or do they have to be confronted?

Offline Sarah

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Re: Get ready for fireworks on this Sunday's Ask JTF!
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2007, 07:53:23 AM »
Chaim should Mock them and kindly correct their errors......then they'll feel like downright childish idiots.

Offline jdl4ever

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Re: Get ready for fireworks on this Sunday's Ask JTF!
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2007, 08:47:10 AM »
Kahane.org did not delete all the anti JTF stuff like you said. Here is one thread where Chaim was attacked.  http://forum.kahane.org/index.php/topic,1295.15.html. Here is another http://forum.kahane.org/index.php/topic,1520.0.html.

It looks like they deleted a thread dedicated to attacking JTF titled "why won't JTF get lost" started by a nutcase.  That is where jsullivan responded.  I don't see what the problem is.  The admins probably didn't want to see an anti Chaim thread on their site since they have no problem with him.  JTF would probably have deleted anti Yukutiel threads as well.  So why are you making a big deal over nothing?

The kahane.org site lets a lot of crazy people post nonsense to liven things up since they have very few dedicated posters.  They only censor things when it gets out of hand.  So they have a more open policy than this site and they shouldn't be attacked if they have a different method of running their forum by allowing crazy people to post stuff.  Kahane.org has only deleted a thread dedicated to attacking JTF since it was slander but they kept scattered attacks on Chaim in other threads to allow for an open debate.  Jsullivan should repeat his nice response on these threads.  Personally, I wouldn't have deleted jsullivan's comments and it was probably a mistake on their part when they did so.  Yukutiel has stated many times that he has nothing against Chaim and he respects anyone working toward a common goal. 

This is what Yukutiel said on kahane.org "Generally speaking there are tons of JTF stuff here. When there apears to be a war of slander, posts might get deleted..however, as everybody knows they are welcome to post stuff here. I am not at war with them. If they are at war with us, that's cool too, They can join the line. They will never find a more inclusive site than this one, so enough of the crying already...if somebody's post got deleted with a bunch of others, and should not have been , then i apologize. But i reserve the right to delete any and all posts that go off topic and resort to unrelated personal slander...If that post did not contain any personal attacks, then it was a mistake.let's move on and try and keep on topic..."
« Last Edit: March 09, 2007, 09:12:49 AM by jdl4ever »
"Enough weeping and wailing; and the following of leaders & rabbis who are pygmies of little faith & less understanding."
"I believe very much in a nation beating their swords into plowshears but when my enemy has a sword I don't want a plowshear"
-Rabbi Meir Kahane Zs'l HYD

Offline Maccabi

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Re: Get ready for fireworks on this Sunday's Ask JTF!
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2007, 10:17:30 AM »
I hope Chaim doesn't waste time talking about these schmucks.

While I don't agree with everything Chaim says and don't put him on a pedastal (he is obviously very human) I would trust him and his honesty anyday over any of these 'politically savvy' types if my life was a stake.

Frankly it was boring to hear him rebut the guy who posted in ask JTF a few weeks ago.  It was the most boring part of any ask JTF I have ever listened to. 

Why should he waste his time and our time addressing obvious slander when people on this forum have more interesting questions?


Offline kahaneloyalist

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Re: Get ready for fireworks on this Sunday's Ask JTF!
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2007, 11:12:49 AM »
MackaB, you should know the facts before you speak, Yekutiel was Rabbi Kahane's zt'l closest aide and Rabbi Kahane trusted him as director of operations in Israel.
"For it is through the mercy of fools that all Justice is lost"
Ramban

Offline jsullivan

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Re: Get ready for fireworks on this Sunday's Ask JTF!
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2007, 02:02:59 PM »
MackaB, you should know the facts before you speak, Yekutiel was Rabbi Kahane's zt'l closest aide and Rabbi Kahane trusted him as director of operations in Israel.

Not true. Despite what Yekutiel says now, he never held a major position when the Rabbi was alive. The Rabbi's closest aide and director of operations in Israel would be someone who speaks Hebrew poorly?

Offline Maccabi

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Re: Get ready for fireworks on this Sunday's Ask JTF!
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2007, 02:23:20 PM »
MackaB, you should know the facts before you speak, Yekutiel was Rabbi Kahane's zt'l closest aide and Rabbi Kahane trusted him as director of operations in Israel.

well I read some of the posts there an Yekutiel did not sound so bad from the post or 2 I read. I personally do not know if his claims about being appointed by Kahane are true but even if they are, it does not mean he hasn't changed course.  Just because he once worked with Kahane doesn't mean what he is presently doing is any good. 

I have a hard time believing anyone who was genuinly trusted by Kahane AND still on the same course would be a part of a group that dislikes Chaim except if for reasons of jealousy - which would still make them imbecile clowns - or political rivalry - which means they are resorting to lowly political tactics - which would again make them clowns.

Whatever though...hopefully Chaim won't spend too much time on it.

I still don't think it is interesting, exciting, or educational to hear bogus attacks on Chaim rebutted.


Offline jdl4ever

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Re: Get ready for fireworks on this Sunday's Ask JTF!
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2007, 02:24:45 PM »
Kahaneloyalist is correct.  Yukutiel would not have been elected Meir of Tapauch if he did not speak decent hebrew.  Also, Yukutiel is a humble man who never lies.  He has posted many times on his forum and in chat that he was Kahane's closest aide especially before he died where everyone else betrayed him including the Kach board. 
« Last Edit: March 09, 2007, 02:29:22 PM by jdl4ever »
"Enough weeping and wailing; and the following of leaders & rabbis who are pygmies of little faith & less understanding."
"I believe very much in a nation beating their swords into plowshears but when my enemy has a sword I don't want a plowshear"
-Rabbi Meir Kahane Zs'l HYD

Offline Maccabi

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Re: Get ready for fireworks on this Sunday's Ask JTF!
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2007, 02:33:58 PM »
Kahaneloyalist is correct.  Yukutiel would not have been elected Meir of Tapauch if he did not speak decent hebrew.  Also, Yukutiel is a humble man who never lies.  He has posted many times on his forum and in chat that he was Kahane's closest aide especially before he died where everyone betrayed him including the Kach board. 

Yekutiel sounds ok then. I was mainly talking about that Mike-Krause.

Offline jsullivan

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Re: Get ready for fireworks on this Sunday's Ask JTF!
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2007, 02:36:00 PM »
jdl4ever and MackaB, I like and respect both of you, but we disagree on this issue. I urged Chaim to respond strongly. Here's what I posted on Yekutiel's forum this morning (we'll see if they delete it):

It's OK to attack a non-Jew as a shagitz on this forum, but it's not OK for him to be able to respond? If Yekutiel does not allow goyim to post on this forum, then say so openly. Yekutiel clearly DOES allow the vicious haters of "Revava" to post here.

And the reason my post was deleted was not because it was off topic, or because I'm a goy. It was deleted because I exposed the truth about the traitor Irv Rubin who said on the Merv Griffin Show before a national audience of 30 million people, "Jonathan Pollard should not have been sentenced to life in prison without parole. Pollard should be killed because he is a traitor to the United States".

Meir Weinstein, Yekutiel's new hero, actually defended Rubin's unforgivably evil actions. Weinstein in effect said that what Rubin did is no big deal because other Jewish organizations took the same position. Really? Which Jewish organizations called for Pollard's DEATH? Even in the left-wing Jewish establishment, name one Jewish organization that called for Pollard's DEATH. What Rubin did was even more evil than the ADL, the UJA, the AJC, etc. And Weinstein defends Rubin. Weinstein writes that he's more concerned about Bob Manning than Pollard anyway. What chutzpah! Someone like Weinstein who never spent time in prison or sacrificed for the Jewish people doesn't want to be bothered about Pollard who has spent the past 22 years in prison because of his love for Israel. Weinstein says it's "petty" to bring up this minor issue of Rubin calling for the DEATH of a Jewish hero in front of 30 million goyim. It's "petty" that JTF condemns Rubin for deliberately trying to incite tens of millions of Americans against Pollard on national television. And Yekutiel obviously agrees that JTF is being "petty" about such a small matter as backstabbing Jewish heroes who are serving sentences of life imprisonment.

Rubin was a serial rat. He also backstabbed Bob Manning and Chaim when they went to prison.

And Irv and Shelly Rubin betrayed the Land of Israel when they wrote on the "JDL" web site that we have to support Sharon's expulsion of Jews from Gush Katif because Sharon was "democratically elected". How "petty" of JTF to bring up such minor issues! Yekutiel's hero Meir Weinstein writes how much he admires and respects Shelly Rubin and her "JDL".

I may be a goy, but I'm not a rat. I must have been brainwashed by JTF who teach us that Jews and bnei Noach are supposed to respect and defend each other. I didn't understand that the true Torah way is to insult bnei Noach with derogatory remarks the way Sababa did.

I spoke to Chaim this morning about this. I don't know how he's going to react on the upcoming "Ask JTF" program to my question about Meir Weinstein. But if there's one thing that makes Chaim go ballistic, it's when someone betrays Jewish heroes who are serving long prison sentences. Maybe that's because Chaim himself spent five and a half years in the worst maximum security federal prisons for his activities on behalf of Soviet Jewry. Sababa, Weinstein, Yekutiel and Mike Kraut should really explain to Chaim that it's "petty" to zealously defend Pollard against backstabbing rats. Chaim and JTF have to learn that being an informer and a rat is no big deal. So what if Rubin wanted Pollard to be killed, and said similar things about the "terrorists" Bob Manning and Chaim Ben Pesach. What's all the fuss about? Can't we all just get along?

Offline jdl4ever

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Re: Get ready for fireworks on this Sunday's Ask JTF!
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2007, 02:48:38 PM »
I am aware of the disagreement between Yukutiel and Chaim on Irv Rubin.  Yukutiel says that the man did some evil things and a lot of good things and that you should not call him evil since he repented.  Chaim says what Irv did is not forgivable and he is therefore evil.  Who is right?  Good question.  I don't know the man well enough to decide.  He sure sounds like a traitor though but after going through hell he might have been cleaned of his sins if he really intended to repent. 

Yukutiel and Chaim also have different approaches.  Chaim doesn't take in those who disagree with him.  Yukutiel will take in anyone who shares a common goal even if they disagree with him on most issues.   For example, Yukutiel said openly on his forum that if Chaim moves to Israel, he was willing to join forces with him.  Chaim however, would never join Yukutiel since he has an old disagreement with him. 

I would not call Meir Weinstein a shmuck like jsullivan did.  He is trying to do a wonderful thing, form a JDL of Toronto.   So big deal if he disagrees with you on Rubin.  Who cares? 
« Last Edit: March 09, 2007, 03:15:11 PM by jdl4ever »
"Enough weeping and wailing; and the following of leaders & rabbis who are pygmies of little faith & less understanding."
"I believe very much in a nation beating their swords into plowshears but when my enemy has a sword I don't want a plowshear"
-Rabbi Meir Kahane Zs'l HYD

Offline Maccabi

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Re: Get ready for fireworks on this Sunday's Ask JTF!
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2007, 03:34:32 PM »
JSullivan: Maybe it will be interesting to hear the repsonse to some of the questions you have just raised.

As to whether Irv is forgivable, who knows? I'm way too young to have a perspective on that but I wouldn't ever even consider trusting anyone who finds that type of betrayal a small thing.

I do know based on track records that I would rather work with and support someone with a strong stance like Chaim than any of those other guys...no questions.

If they censor you though, call you a shagitz, talk bad about Chaim, and say the Rubin/Pollard thing is not big deal, it is pretty much a moot point: Schmucks. Case closed. More of the same story.

fuggetaboutem

Offline TheCoon

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Re: Get ready for fireworks on this Sunday's Ask JTF!
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2007, 03:46:09 PM »
A lot of the people there are very bigoted towards gentiles. You better not say you're a Christian who supports Israel. Those kahane.org freaks hate Christians just as much as muslims. They think all gentiles are against Jews.
The city isn't what it used to be. It all happened so fast. Everything went to crap. It's like... everyone's sense of morals just disappeared. Bad economy made things worse. Jobs started drying up, then the stores had to shut down. Then a black man was elected president. He was supposed to change things. He didn't. More and more people turned to crime and violence... The town becomes gripped with fear. Dark times, dark times... I am the hero this town needs. I am... The Coon!!!

Offline kahaneloyalist

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Re: Get ready for fireworks on this Sunday's Ask JTF!
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2007, 04:30:06 PM »
actually Yaakov, Yekutiel was on the Kach board and Rabbi Kahane's closest aide, why dont you ask Baruch Marzel the next time you are in Israel if that is true, I can attest that others from the Rav's inner circle, who I personally know, like Baruch Ben Yosef, and Yosef Dayan will confirm that Yekutiel is telling the truth regarding his relationship with the Rav. Furthermore Rav Binyamin Zeev chose Yekutiel to be his second.

A lot of the people there are very bigoted towards gentiles. You better not say you're a Christian who supports Israel. Those kahane.org freaks hate Christians just as much as muslims. They think all gentiles are against Jews.
Well, Thunder the last two thousand years of persecution may have a tiny part in our view of Goyim. Furthermore, Chaim follows the Meiri regarding who is a righteoud Gentile. The Meiri is the most lenient of all opinons. Most Kahanists follow the Rambam who had a stricter definition of who can be considered a righteous gentile. Consider that the Rav quoted the Rambam many times, and I know of no occasions where he quoted the Meiri.

I leave you with a quote from the Rav, "If you wish to support us do so from afar, for if you missionize we will perform Hereg upon you."
(The form of death mandated to those who try to draw Jews to foreign religions, a form of beheading.)
"For it is through the mercy of fools that all Justice is lost"
Ramban

Offline jsullivan

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Re: Get ready for fireworks on this Sunday's Ask JTF!
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2007, 05:01:35 PM »
actually Yaakov, Yekutiel was on the Kach board and Rabbi Kahane's closest aide, why dont you ask Baruch Marzel the next time you are in Israel if that is true, I can attest that others from the Rav's inner circle, who I personally know, like Baruch Ben Yosef, and Yosef Dayan will confirm that Yekutiel is telling the truth regarding his relationship with the Rav. Furthermore Rav Binyamin Zeev chose Yekutiel to be his second.

A lot of the people there are very bigoted towards gentiles. You better not say you're a Christian who supports Israel. Those kahane.org freaks hate Christians just as much as muslims. They think all gentiles are against Jews.
Well, Thunder the last two thousand years of persecution may have a tiny part in our view of Goyim. Furthermore, Chaim follows the Meiri regarding who is a righteoud Gentile. The Meiri is the most lenient of all opinons. Most Kahanists follow the Rambam who had a stricter definition of who can be considered a righteous gentile. Consider that the Rav quoted the Rambam many times, and I know of no occasions where he quoted the Meiri.

I leave you with a quote from the Rav, "If you wish to support us do so from afar, for if you missionize we will perform Hereg upon you."
(The form of death mandated to those who try to draw Jews to foreign religions, a form of beheading.)

Yekutiel's claim that he was the Rabbi's closest aide is pure fantasy. Yes, ask Baruch Marzel if Yekutiel's claims are true: 1. Was Yekutiel the Rabbi's closest aide?; 2. Did the Rabbi want to fire the Kach board and put Yekutiel in charge?; 3. Was Yekutiel closer to the Rabbi than Marzel, Moshe Neiman, and the others on the board?; 4. When the Rabbi ran for the Knesset in 1984, why wasn't Yekutiel, his "closest aide", on the Knesset list?; 5. When the Rabbi was elected, why did he put Marzel and not Yekutiel on his Knesset staff?; 6. When the Rabbi prepared his Knesset list for the 1988 elections, why was Yekutiel, his "closest aide", not on the list of Knesset candidates? I could go on and on.

kahaneloyalist, with all due respect, there is no machloket (disagreement) among ANY of Chazal (the Talmudic sages) that bnei Noach are righteous Gentiles.  All of Chazal agree that Gentiles who follow sheva mitzvot bnei Noach are to be deemed Chassidei Umot HaOlam (the righteous among the nations). Your forum at best tolerates, and at worst even encourages, hatred toward bnei Noach. Would the Rambam approve of that? Would Rabbi Kahane?

Offline kahaneloyalist

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Re: Get ready for fireworks on this Sunday's Ask JTF!
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2007, 05:23:15 PM »
oh yes, that is true everyone agrees that ALL Bnai Noach are righteous, but the debate then becomes who is a Ben Noach. The Meiri includes most Christians in his definition, whereas the Rambam explicitly excludes Islam and Christianity from the Ben Noach definition. Hilchot Melachim and Hilchot Sanhedrin.

I am not sure who told you that Yekutiel wasnt part of the Kach list, but it simply isnt true. And the letter from the Rav in which he says if he is killed Yekutiel is to lead really cant be argued with.
"For it is through the mercy of fools that all Justice is lost"
Ramban

Offline Mishmaat

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Re: Get ready for fireworks on this Sunday's Ask JTF!
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2007, 07:16:11 PM »
James Sullivan, I happen to really like you. But I think this is a waste of time.

The person that called you a "shagitz" is that putz tzioni, yemach shemo vizichro (may his name and memory be obliterated). These are JINO's (Jews In Name Only) who have no respect for anyone. They don't respect righteous Jews, much less bnai Noach (righteous Gentiles). They have done NOTHING to help our cause other than sit on their fat asses spewing the ugliest anti-Kahanist dreck possible. You, Jimmy, are more knowledgeable in Torah concepts than those ignoramuses.

Shabbat shalom.

Offline jsullivan

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Re: Get ready for fireworks on this Sunday's Ask JTF!
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2007, 08:33:15 PM »
oh yes, that is true everyone agrees that ALL Bnai Noach are righteous, but the debate then becomes who is a Ben Noach. The Meiri includes most Christians in his definition, whereas the Rambam explicitly excludes Islam and Christianity from the Ben Noach definition. Hilchot Melachim and Hilchot Sanhedrin.

I am not sure who told you that Yekutiel wasnt part of the Kach list, but it simply isnt true. And the letter from the Rav in which he says if he is killed Yekutiel is to lead really cant be argued with.

kahaneloyalist, a few points to think about:

1. Yekutiel was never on the Rabbi's Kach Knesset list. I know because I was active in JDL when Chaim was raising money for the Rabbi's Knesset campaign. We showed who the various people on the list were. The members of the Kach board that Yekutiel claims the Rabbi wanted to fire were on the list. Yekutiel was not on the list. No one even knew who Yekutiel was at the time. In 1984 and in 1988, Chaim translated into English what the Rabbi was distributing in Israel so that our American supporters could read it as well. That literature included the Kach Knesset lists.

2. Do you have a copy of the letter in which Yekutiel claims that the Rabbi said that if he is murdered, he wants Yekutiel to lead? Please get us a copy. We want to reprint it on our English and Hebrew forums. In fact, I know that the letter did NOT say anything of the sort. You have been misled, kahaneloyalist. But if you produce the letter, we will be happy to reprint in its entirety.

3. There is indeed a machloket in regard to what constitutes a righteous Gentile. Chaim does NOT claim that most people who today call themselves "Christians" are righteous Gentiles. Most Europeans call themselves "Christians", and the majority of them are anti-Semitic, anti-Israel and anti-American. They clearly are NOT righteous Gentiles. Even most Americans are NOT righteous Gentiles. But there are tens of millions of Bible-believing Christians in the U.S. who genuinely support Israel because of the Biblical commandment to do so. Chaim considers these Bible-believing Gentiles to be righteous, however they are a MINORITY of the American people (about 50 million Americans are Bible-believing Christians out of a total U.S. population of over 300 million - so the real Christians are less than 20% of the American people).

Now there are those who contend that the Christian concept of trinity is idolatry and polytheism, and therefore, Christians cannot be righteous because they are violating the Noahide commandment that forbids idolatry. Chaim believes that even if you accept this premise that Christianity is idolatry, Gentiles can be righteous even if they practice idolatry because Gentiles do not have the benefit of the Torah revelation that the Jews received at Har Sinai. Accordingly, we cannot expect Gentiles to be held to the same monotheistic standard as the Jews. Even if Gentiles mistakenly practice idolatry, as long as they live moral and virtuous lives, and as long as they support Israel and the Jewish people, these Gentiles are righteous and they will receive the ultimate reward of eternal life in the next world. Jews, on the other hand, absolutely must believe in strict monotheism and must follow all of the Torah commandments.

4. Now let's put aside the halachic disagreements above for a moment. I personally do follow the sheva mitzvot bnei Noach, including the prohibition against avodah zara. My guides in life are ONLY the great Rabbinical scholars. And my entire life is dedicated to helping Am Yisrael and Eretz Yisrael. My son is a ger (a convert to Judaism) who lives in Shomron with his Israeli Jewish wife, and my two grandchildren are Jews who are enrolled in yeshiva. Yekutiel's web site tolerates and encourages insults and namecalling even against Gentiles like me. Would Chazal approve of that? Would Rabbi Kahane?

Offline jsullivan

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Re: Get ready for fireworks on this Sunday's Ask JTF!
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2007, 08:34:43 PM »
I think it was Mike Krause who called him a shaygitz.



No, it was Sabbaba.

Offline jdl4ever

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Re: Get ready for fireworks on this Sunday's Ask JTF!
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2007, 10:04:06 PM »
Yukutiel is probably being arrested right now for the Jewish people so don't say lies about him unless you can prove it.
"Enough weeping and wailing; and the following of leaders & rabbis who are pygmies of little faith & less understanding."
"I believe very much in a nation beating their swords into plowshears but when my enemy has a sword I don't want a plowshear"
-Rabbi Meir Kahane Zs'l HYD

Offline Trumpeldor

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Re: Get ready for fireworks on this Sunday's Ask JTF!
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2007, 10:48:17 PM »
It's bad enough that this Yekutiel fellow allows malicious slander against Chaim but the fact that they have gone after Jimmy is a new low. 

Offline Mishmaat

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Re: Get ready for fireworks on this Sunday's Ask JTF!
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2007, 12:56:32 AM »
I think it was Mike Krause who called him a shaygitz.



No, it was Sabbaba.

I think you're attacking Yekutiel too strongly. I disagree with him tolerating all of those ugly anti-Kahane elements (Roman, Sababa, etc.) on his forum, but I think he just made a mistake. He's clearly attempting to clean up his forum and he's modifying messages and deleting messages. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. As I've said earlier, Sababa is tzioni. He just modified the account settings and changed his username. He's a putz. And that other wimp Mike-Krause is a little nothing.