Author Topic: Warren's inauguration prayer could draw more ire  (Read 2362 times)

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Offline Americanhero1

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Warren's inauguration prayer could draw more ire
« on: December 30, 2008, 08:50:19 PM »
President-elect Barack Obama's choice of Rick Warren to deliver the inaugural invocation drew one kind of protest. Whether the evangelical pastor offers the prayer in the name of Jesus may draw another. At George W. Bush's 2001 swearing-in, the Revs. Franklin Graham and Kirbyjon Caldwell were criticized for invoking Christ. The distinctly Christian reference at a national civic event offended some, and even prompted a lawsuit.

Warren did not answer directly when asked whether he would dedicate his prayer to Jesus. In a statement Tuesday to The Associated Press, Warren would say only that, "I'm a Christian pastor so I will pray the only kind of prayer I know how to pray."

"Prayers are not to be sermons, speeches, position statements nor political posturing. They are humble, personal appeals to God," Warren wrote. His spokesman would not elaborate.

Evangelicals generally expect their clergymen to use Jesus' name whenever and wherever they lead prayer. Many conservative Christians say cultural sensitivity goes way too far if it requires religious leaders to hide their beliefs.

"If Rick Warren does not pray in Jesus' name, some folks are going to be very disappointed," Caldwell said in a recent phone interview. "Since he's evangelical, his own tribe, if you will, will have some angst if he does not do that."

Advocates for gay rights protested Obama's decision to give Warren a prominent role at the swearing-in. The California megachurch founder supported Proposition 8, which banned same-sex marriage in his home state. Obama defended his choice, saying he wanted the event to reflect diverse views and insisting he remains a "fierce advocate" of equal rights for gays.

The Rev. Joseph Lowery, a United Methodist who is considered the dean of the civil rights movement, said he hasn't yet written the benediction for the Jan. 20 ceremony. But he said "whatever religion the person represents, I think he has a right to be true to his religion."

Caldwell, also a Methodist, said no one from the Bush team told him what to say in his 2001 and 2005 benedictions.

The Houston pastor said he had "no intention whatsoever of offending" people when he quoted from Philippians and delivered the 2001 prayer "in the name that's above all other names, Jesus the Christ." In 2005, he still prayed in Jesus' name, but added the line, "respecting persons of all faiths." In the 2008 election, Caldwell supported Obama.

Franklin Graham, son of evangelist Billy Graham, who was a presence at presidential inaugurations for several decades, said it's wrong to expect members of any faith to change how they pray in public.

"For a Christian, especially for an evangelical pastor, the Bible teaches us that we are to pray in the name of Jesus Christ. How can a minister pray any other way?" Franklin Graham said. "If you don't want someone to pray in Jesus' name, don't invite an evangelical minister."

Graham, who in 2001 stepped in for his ailing father, ended the invocation with, "We pray this in the name of the Father, and of the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit."

The lawsuit, which claimed that inaugural prayer was an unconstitutional endorsement of religion, failed in federal court. It had been filed by atheist Michael Newdow, who separately sued to remove the words "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance.

Billy Graham, now 90, didn't say Jesus' name during presidential inaugurations, but made obvious references to Christ.

At Richard Nixon's 1969 swearing-in, Graham prayed "in the Name of the Prince of Peace who shed His blood on the Cross that men might have eternal life." In 1997, for Bill Clinton's inaugural, Graham prayed "in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit."

Leaders of other traditions with experience in interfaith work said they respected Christians who felt strongly that they should pray in Christ's name.

But they argued that a request for some modification is reasonable for a presidential inauguration, considering it's an event representing all Americans.

Imam Yahya Hendi, a Muslim chaplain at Georgetown University who travels to Muslim countries on behalf of the State Department, said that at interfaith events, he refers to Allah, or God, as "almighty creator of us all."

Rabbi Burt Visotzky, a professor at the Jewish Theological Seminary, the flagship institution of Conservative Judaism, said he invokes "God" for interfaith prayer.

"I know that for Christians, Jesus is part of their Trinity," said Visotzky, who has taught at Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome and at Protestant seminaries in the U.S. "For me as a Jew, hearing the name of a first-century rabbi isn't the worst thing in the world, but it's not my God."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081231/ap_on_go_pr_wh/rel_inauguration_prayer

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Warren's inauguration prayer could draw more ire
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2008, 09:06:54 PM »
What a joke and a scam. Whoren's only gd is the almighty schvartze.

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Warren's inauguration prayer could draw more ire
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2008, 09:10:52 PM »
I usually get angry if people don't pray in Jesus' name if they're offering a Christian prayer. However in this case I don't know if it would be more insulting for him to include that or more insulting for him not to include it. Warren has really turned his back on Christian values.

Offline muman613

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Re: Warren's inauguration prayer could draw more ire
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2008, 09:11:45 PM »
Please leave the prayers out of the inauguration. I dont expect to watch the event but if they pray to some deity which is not Hashem I will certainly change the station. Sorry if that offends anyone but its been a tough time for Jews in a season of HoHoHo... Besides, isn't Obama anti-religious anyway? Why mock G-d like this?



You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Warren's inauguration prayer could draw more ire
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2008, 09:14:51 PM »
Please leave the prayers out of the inauguration. I dont expect to watch the event but if they pray to some deity which is not Hashem I will certainly change the station. Sorry if that offends anyone but its been a tough time for Jews in a season of HoHoHo... Besides, isn't Obama anti-religious anyway? Why mock G-d like this?

Obama has to hold up the pretense of being Christian. In general, if not in this one so much, I think it's a good thing that there are prayers at inaugurations. America has always been a predominately Christian country so it makes sense for there to be Christian prayer at public events.

I'm sorry you had such a miserable December by letting some other religion's holiday upset you so badly. I hope January is better for you.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Warren's inauguration prayer could draw more ire
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2008, 09:18:13 PM »
Sorry if that offends anyone but its been a tough time for Jews in a season of HoHoHo...
I don't understand; why does Christmastime threaten Jews? Real Christians are very devout Zionists, and nobody wants or expects Jews to celebrate Christian holidays.

Offline muman613

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Re: Warren's inauguration prayer could draw more ire
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2008, 09:24:19 PM »
Sorry if that offends anyone but its been a tough time for Jews in a season of HoHoHo...
I don't understand; why does Christmastime threaten Jews? Real Christians are very devout Zionists, and nobody wants or expects Jews to celebrate Christian holidays.

It is not a threat... It is just that the media and society as a whole kinda skipped over Channukah this year. Maybe because Christmas fell in the middle of the Channukah week... Last year I noticed at least FOX news had a menorah and a Happy Channukah greeting which it broadcast. This year I did not notice that they did.

No stores had any Channukah greetings, everyone greets with Merry Christmas. All the local papers {In SF Bay area} had minimal if any mention of the Channukah holiday {yet SF gate had a front page article about Kwanza!?!? whatever that is!}. I feel like the push-back on the war against Christmas has caused everyone to forget about Channukah.

Even the mainstream media when they run stories on Channukah get it completely wrong. I read numerous stories last year which painted Channukah as the Jewish version of Christmas {Which it most certainly is not}.

That is why it is hard... In a society where everyone is doing something it is hard to continue doing what is right.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Warren's inauguration prayer could draw more ire
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2008, 09:54:29 PM »
OK, you do have a point. Chanukah was neglected this year. I do think Christians should learn all about Chanukah and its real meaning. But all of the public emphasis on Christmas is on Santa Claus. Nobody in the leftist whore media talks about the real significance of Christmas either.

Offline DownwithIslam

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Re: Warren's inauguration prayer could draw more ire
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2008, 10:40:19 PM »
Sorry if that offends anyone but its been a tough time for Jews in a season of HoHoHo...
I don't understand; why does Christmastime threaten Jews? Real Christians are very devout Zionists, and nobody wants or expects Jews to celebrate Christian holidays.

It is not a threat... It is just that the media and society as a whole kinda skipped over Channukah this year. Maybe because Christmas fell in the middle of the Channukah week... Last year I noticed at least FOX news had a menorah and a Happy Channukah greeting which it broadcast. This year I did not notice that they did.

No stores had any Channukah greetings, everyone greets with Merry Christmas. All the local papers {In SF Bay area} had minimal if any mention of the Channukah holiday {yet SF gate had a front page article about Kwanza!?!? whatever that is!}. I feel like the push-back on the war against Christmas has caused everyone to forget about Channukah.

Even the mainstream media when they run stories on Channukah get it completely wrong. I read numerous stories last year which painted Channukah as the Jewish version of Christmas {Which it most certainly is not}.

That is why it is hard... In a society where everyone is doing something it is hard to continue doing what is right.


Muman613, I disagree with you. You live in a Christian country so it is wrong for you to expect people to recognize CHanuka. This is a perfect reason that you should make aliyah. Also, you should not feel uncomfortable during christmas time. Evangelical christains like chaimfan are the best friends jews can have and you have to realize that they fully support you.
I am urinating on a Koran.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Warren's inauguration prayer could draw more ire
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2008, 10:43:18 PM »
Evangelical christains like chaimfan are the best friends jews can have
Thanks DownwithIslam.

Offline muman613

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Re: Warren's inauguration prayer could draw more ire
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2008, 10:47:48 PM »
Evangelical christains like chaimfan are the best friends jews can have
Thanks DownwithIslam.

I never said anything bad about C.F... The question was asked about why I felt this way about the holidays this year.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Warren's inauguration prayer could draw more ire
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2008, 10:52:26 PM »
No, I know you didn't Muman. I was just thanking DWI for the compliment about me. And I agree with you that Chanukah was neglected by the Establishment completely this year, in favor of Kwanzaa.

Offline muman613

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Re: Warren's inauguration prayer could draw more ire
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2008, 10:52:56 PM »
Sorry if that offends anyone but its been a tough time for Jews in a season of HoHoHo...
I don't understand; why does Christmastime threaten Jews? Real Christians are very devout Zionists, and nobody wants or expects Jews to celebrate Christian holidays.

It is not a threat... It is just that the media and society as a whole kinda skipped over Channukah this year. Maybe because Christmas fell in the middle of the Channukah week... Last year I noticed at least FOX news had a menorah and a Happy Channukah greeting which it broadcast. This year I did not notice that they did.

No stores had any Channukah greetings, everyone greets with Merry Christmas. All the local papers {In SF Bay area} had minimal if any mention of the Channukah holiday {yet SF gate had a front page article about Kwanza!?!? whatever that is!}. I feel like the push-back on the war against Christmas has caused everyone to forget about Channukah.

Even the mainstream media when they run stories on Channukah get it completely wrong. I read numerous stories last year which painted Channukah as the Jewish version of Christmas {Which it most certainly is not}.

That is why it is hard... In a society where everyone is doing something it is hard to continue doing what is right.


Muman613, I disagree with you. You live in a Christian country so it is wrong for you to expect people to recognize CHanuka. This is a perfect reason that you should make aliyah. Also, you should not feel uncomfortable during christmas time. Evangelical christains like chaimfan are the best friends jews can have and you have to realize that they fully support you.

DWI,

What makes this a 'Christian Country'? Our constitution does not evoke the Christian g-d because the original settlers wanted to seperate from the Church of England so they created a country where there was no religion established by the Constitution {Establishment Clause}. One of the reasons this country was so great in its early times was because immigrants could come to America to get away from religious persecution in Europe. I really don't like the idea of America being a 'Christian Country' and don't think it is a country where religion is established. Maybe you are referring to a Christian majority in this country. If it is a Christian country why is there no Cross on the flag like in many European countries? If it is a Christian country why is there no mention of establishing a national religion? It must be that you are referring to a majority of Christians in this country because there is nothing in the Constitution which supports the idea America is a "Christian Country".

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline nessuno

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Re: Warren's inauguration prayer could draw more ire
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2008, 11:14:27 PM »
What country do I live in?
I thought this was a country based on Judeo Christian values.
Be very CAREFUL of people whose WORDS don't match their ACTIONS.

Offline Americanhero1

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Re: Warren's inauguration prayer could draw more ire
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2008, 01:07:45 AM »
What country do I live in?
I thought this was a country based on Judeo Christian values.


That is true

Offline briann

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Re: Warren's inauguration prayer could draw more ire
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2008, 01:46:19 AM »
I must say that Christmas has very little to do with Christianity or the birth of Christ the way it is celebrated here and abroad.

What does shopping bonanzas, and a guy in a red suit being pulled by magic flying reindeer with red noses have to do with the birth of Jesus?

If anyone should be offended by Christmas celebrations, it would be religious Christians.

I have relatives in Japan... and they say the exact same thing.... some Japanese dont even REALIZE that it is a 'christian holiday'.  They just thought it was a fun winter celebration of consumerism.




Offline briann

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Re: Warren's inauguration prayer could draw more ire
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2008, 01:49:37 AM »
BTW.... Obama isn't anti-religious.....  He is anti-Western, anti-White.   This explains why he hates bitter Pennsylvanians who cling to their bibles and yet he idolizes evil black pastors who preach fascism.

Obama's God is Black and evil.... plain and simple.






Offline AsheDina

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Re: Warren's inauguration prayer could draw more ire
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2008, 07:29:04 AM »
Sorry if that offends anyone but its been a tough time for Jews in a season of HoHoHo...
I don't understand; why does Christmastime threaten Jews? Real Christians are very devout Zionists, and nobody wants or expects Jews to celebrate Christian holidays.

It is not a threat... It is just that the media and society as a whole kinda skipped over Channukah this year. Maybe because Christmas fell in the middle of the Channukah week... Last year I noticed at least FOX news had a menorah and a Happy Channukah greeting which it broadcast. This year I did not notice that they did.

No stores had any Channukah greetings, everyone greets with Merry Christmas. All the local papers {In SF Bay area} had minimal if any mention of the Channukah holiday {yet SF gate had a front page article about Kwanza!?!? whatever that is!}. I feel like the push-back on the war against Christmas has caused everyone to forget about Channukah.

Even the mainstream media when they run stories on Channukah get it completely wrong. I read numerous stories last year which painted Channukah as the Jewish version of Christmas {Which it most certainly is not}.

That is why it is hard... In a society where everyone is doing something it is hard to continue doing what is right.


  They want this Christian nation GONE FOREVER & I am 100% AGAINST this.
  America is suppose to be a Christian nation. Israel is a Jewish state.  If you even said "Merry Christmas" to people, another would say: "You are suppose to say 'Happy Holidays'" This is the height of INSANITY.
While I KNOW that I have BOTH faiths in my family- I DO NOT WANT EITHER faiths threatened, b/c BOTH are my life- but they ARE THREATENED-BOTH. 

  I believe that ALL Good Jews should take up for the cause of this nation being a Christian nation. I believe that ALL REAL Christians should take up for the cause to keep the Law JUDEAO.

  The story of "Santa Claus" is about a man that went around and made gifts for the poor of the world- children.  The birth of the Christian's Jesus is in October. So, Christmas should not offend ANYONE.

  I believe that many GOOD Jews are upset with Christianity b/c some of their families converted over to Christianity.  This is VERY painful to Jewish people b/c our faith goes to the beginning of time, and when a Jewish person converts- they bombarde their WHOLE family with indoctrination, and MANY MANY MANY times the family feels FORCED into it, and MANY/MOST times, it is NOT a willing thing at ALL- it is almost as if they have been FORCEFULLY indoctrinated, which I AM AGAINST 1000%. 
REAL Jews believe the SAME thing as REAL Christians- it MUST be with the WHOLE heart.

  So, I TRULY believe that Jews MUST go  BACK to the TORAH & a GOOD synagogue, and Christians MUST return to their faith. 

  I believe that it is a BEAUTIFUL thing, the writings in the epistles- BUT- MUCH BETTER WHEN ACTED OUT
  ANYBODY can word a person to DEATH.


   ALL OF THIS ASIDE- HUSSEIN being sworn in with ANY Bible- to me.......................is ABOMINABLE.

 
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Offline mord

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Re: Warren's inauguration prayer could draw more ire
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2008, 09:12:38 AM »
I don't care for Rick Warren he's a Liberal in religious clothing
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Offline cjd

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Re: Warren's inauguration prayer could draw more ire
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2008, 10:01:38 AM »
I have to agree and disagree with muman to some extent. Yes it seemed that Channukah was ignored to some extent in the media this season however some media outlets opted for the more generic seasons greetings slogan which they may feel would encompass both holidays. I like both mentioned separately it shows better respect for each holiday. It could be that the holidays were so close this year however I think its really a move by the media to be more PC. As far as inauguration prayers go I think that Warren should use a format that is used in military prayers where G-d is the subject of the prayer leaving people listening to have the comfort of their own beliefs. America was founded basically on Christian principals that take into account old and new testament principals. It is true that the founding fathers were careful to not establish a state mandated religion however I don't think they intended to eliminate G-d from the government. I think liberals are trying to get us all into a gray area where people don't believe in much of anything. Whatever prayer is used come inauguration day it makes little difference since the person who is being sworn in has about as much use for them as a case of the hives. The entire thing is a sham from start to finish so its best to just avoid watching it.   
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Offline AsheDina

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Re: Warren's inauguration prayer could draw more ire
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2008, 10:53:02 AM »
I don't care for Rick Warren he's a Liberal in religious clothing

 I did another audio, it is on Rick Warren  >:( the FRAUD "Christian"  WHY dont Christian people CONDEMN this action?
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Re: Warren's inauguration prayer could draw more ire
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2008, 10:58:36 AM »
I don't care for Rick Warren he's a Liberal in religious clothing

 I did another audio, it is on Rick Warren  >:( the FRAUD "Christian"  WHY dont Christian people CONDEMN this action?
BECAUSE HE'S CUDDLY NONE THREATINING :laugh:
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Offline cjd

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Re: Warren's inauguration prayer could draw more ire
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2008, 11:17:36 AM »
I don't care for Rick Warren he's a Liberal in religious clothing

 I did another audio, it is on Rick Warren  >:( the FRAUD "Christian"  WHY dont Christian people CONDEMN this action?
BECAUSE HE'S CUDDLY NONE THREATINING :laugh:
Sort of like a Panda bear  :o
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Offline Xoce

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Re: Warren's inauguration prayer could draw more ire
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2009, 02:58:06 AM »
Here's a portion from Conservative Christian Preacher Albert Mohler's blog:

Quote
...No matter how cool you think you are or think that others think you are, the hour is coming when the issue of homosexuality -- taken alone -- will be the defining issue in coolness. If you accept the full normalization of homosexuality, you will be cool. If you do not, you are profoundly uncool, no matter how much good work you do nor how much love and compassion you seek to express.

Liberal Protestantism came to this conclusion long ago, and those churches desperately want to be considered cool by the elites. Having abandoned biblical authority, there is nothing to prevent them moving fast into coolness. The only barriers are outposts of conservative opposition, but they will not last long.

Many in the "emerging" and "Emergent church" movements also state their intention to transcend the divisive issues like abortion and homosexuality. Some of these represent the quintessence of cool in cultural identification. But for how long? Eventually, the issue of homosexuality will require a decision. At that point, those churches will find themselves facing a forced decision. Choose ye this day: Will it be the Bible or coolness?

Rick Warren has just found himself in the midst of a whirlwind. We must pray that God will give him wisdom as he decides what to do -- and what to say -- as he stands in this whirlwind. But every evangelical Christian should watch this carefully, for the controversy over Rick Warren will not stop with the pastor from Saddleback. This whirlwind is coming for you and for your church. At some point, the cost of being "cool" will be the abandonment of biblical Christianity. We had better decide well in advance that this is a cost far too high to pay.
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Offline Xoce

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Re: Warren's inauguration prayer could draw more ire
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2009, 03:01:18 AM »
And another from Mohler at http://www.albertmohler.com/blog_read.php?id=3023
Quote

Would I deliver the invocation at the inauguration of Barack Obama as President of the United States? Well, I have not been asked, but I can imagine that it would be difficult to turn down this invitation. After all, the inaugural ceremony is a national event, not a personal ceremony. Yet, in the end, the context of this inaugural ceremony would not allow me to accept. President-elect Obama has pledged to sign legislation including the Freedom of Choice Act, which would affect a pro-abortion revolution in this nation. He has also pledged to sign executive orders within hours of taking office that will lead directly to a vast increase in the destruction of human life. In particular, he has promised to reverse the Bush administration's policy limiting federal funding of human embryonic stem-cell research. Sources inside the transition office have advised activists to expect a flurry of executive orders in the new administration's first hours and days.

Knowing the intentions of this President-elect, I could not in good conscience offer a formal prayer at his inauguration. Even in the short term, I could not live in good conscience with what will come within hours. I could not accept a public role in the event of his inauguration nor offer there a public prayer, but I will certainly be praying for this new President and for the nation under his leadership.

I was interviewed about this question by The Wall Street Journal, and the article appears in today's edition of the paper [see here]. From the article:

Some on the right were unhappy as well. R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, said he wouldn't deliver the invocation for a president who supports abortion rights.

"It certainly doesn't help the pro-life movement to...participate in this kind of public way in the inauguration for one who holds to a very radical pro-abortion position," he said.
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