Author Topic: Do you guys think this is true or a waste of money?  (Read 1293 times)

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Offline ItalianZionist

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Do you guys think this is true or a waste of money?
« on: February 04, 2009, 10:50:40 PM »
http://www.rabbibarbara.com/italian_jewish_roots_conference_2009.html

I found it from the post by J.A.P. ......sounds interesting, but I don't know about this synagogue

Offline דוד בן זאב אריה

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Re: Do you guys think this is true or a waste of money?
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2009, 11:25:45 PM »
They seem like good people but I think it is too much money and a waste of time to try and spread our word there.
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Offline IsraelForever

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Re: Do you guys think this is true or a waste of money?
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2009, 03:04:57 AM »
Only by going by the link, I do not think it's a waste of time -- provided that the topic interests you.  If I were Italian and if I thought that I might be a Jew, I would definitely go to something like that.  My feeling though is always to go with your "gut feeling".  So, if you're not sure about, I would tell you not to go, because something about it doesn't seem right to you.  And, of course, it's totally possible that it will be a waste.  But how do you know if you don't go?

Offline mord

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Re: Do you guys think this is true or a waste of money?
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2009, 07:12:43 AM »
Sicily and southern Italy have had Jewish populations for 2500 yrs many of Jews must have become Christian.Yes i would go many Italian names sound like they have Hebrew roots as opposed to latin
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Offline JewishAmericanPatriot

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Re: Do you guys think this is true or a waste of money?
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2009, 02:27:13 PM »
I have researched Italian-Jewish genealogy for over 25 years, and can tell you almost anything you need to know.

The conference is good, I know Barbara Aiello (I cannot refer to her as 'rabbi' because I don't believe in women rabbis, sorry). She is a reform "rabbi" in Milan, Italy, originally from PA.

If you can stomach the fact that its held in a liberal "synagogue", and run mostly by liberal Jews, you can get a lot out of it.

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Offline Ulli

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Re: Do you guys think this is true or a waste of money?
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2009, 03:13:14 PM »
I think it is interesting.

But on the other hand it showes how unsecure many people are about their identity.

This people should read in the first place the bible and study the different Christian believes and Judaism.

Then they should find their identity. After it they should seek for like minded people and in the end they should join them as their people and as their religious community.

I can tell it takes years and takes a lot of reading and studying. And it is not easy (I am not finally arrived at the end of my voyage)

But this is the only way to go, because most of us are educated nonreligious.

The genetic test is the easy way, so will the outcome be light.

But if you torture yourself you will have success in the end.

This is my oppinion.



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Offline JewishAmericanPatriot

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Re: Do you guys think this is true or a waste of money?
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2009, 04:07:20 PM »
I agree about the genealogical DNA testing (I had it done myself, through http://www.familytreedna.com )

My background is that my father was a Jew of Russian ancestry, and my mother was raised an Italian Catholic. She converted to Torah Judaism in 1944, then met/married my father a few years later. Then they had my older sisters, and I was their "accident" baby  :o born in the late 1950s when my mom was in her late 30s.

I always thought of my Mom as a ger, and so did she...even though her parents were rather weird for Italian Catholics. My grandmother used to be mortally afraid of crucifixes and refused to allow any in her home. She used to say to me, "When you see one of those (crucifixes), it means someone is going to die". She had nothing Catholic in her home except a Catholic Bible, which no one seemed to read (lol.)

On Friday nights she would light two candles before dinner; she explained it to me as 'an old family custom'. She would also insist on closing the kitchen curtains first. My Mom did this too, so I figured it was normal.

Grandmom did lots of other things that I thought were just typical for Italians (I was very sheltered and Mom's family were the only Italians I knew as a child.)

Grandmom also told me, "You must never eat pork; its dirty and has worms..it can kill you". I was amazed at how much like Jews Italians were!  :laugh:

What a SHOCK I got later in life when I found out that most Italians wear crucifixes and eat pork!  :o

Anyway, in the 1980s I got into genealogy, and met a distant cousin from my mom's side online. The first thing he said to me was, "Did you know your mom's family is Jewish?" I said, "Well, I know SHE is Jewish and so am I, but her family is not".

That was when my cousin Joe sent me a huge file with documentation fro Italy, showing my Mom's family was Ebrei (Hebrews) from way back. They had originally come from Spain, left in 1492 rather than convert to Catholicism, went to Sicily and southern Italy, and later when Spain took those areas over too, they finally decided to convert externally rather than run again, but stayed Jewish in secret (conversos, "marranos").

Naturally over 500 or so years much of that got lost, but they did evidently keep some Jewish customs, which is why my grandmom felt as she did on pork, crucifixes, etc. Grandmom also used to tie a red string around doorknobs of a new home or car; I always thought that was "an Italian thing"; I later learned its from Kabbalah, something many Sephardic Jews were heavily into.

No one in my mom's family ever ate blatant traif like shellfish or pork; in fact when my uncle went into a nursing home, he lied and told them he was allergic to pork/shellfish so they would not feed it to him.

I have to admit when I first learned my family's true history, I developed a very deep hate for the Catholic church, something that I am only recently learning to moderate. I just HATE the way their monarchs STOLE my family's way of life from them!  >:( :'(

This was a hard thing for me because I've been active in the pro-life mvmt for years, which is heavily Catholic, and I began seeing Catholics as my enemy, but I was told by members of a converso genealogy list I belong to that that is a very normal first reaction to finding out about my heritage...they said you mellow out over time, and I have....a bit.
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Offline Ulli

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Re: Do you guys think this is true or a waste of money?
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2009, 04:19:33 PM »
I agree about the genealogical DNA testing (I had it done myself, through http://www.familytreedna.com )

My background is that my father was a Jew of Russian ancestry, and my mother was raised an Italian Catholic. She converted to Torah Judaism in 1944, then met/married my father a few years later. Then they had my older sisters, and I was their "accident" baby  :o born in the late 1950s when my mom was in her late 30s.

I always thought of my Mom as a ger, and so did she...even though her parents were rather weird for Italian Catholics. My grandmother used to be mortally afraid of crucifixes and refused to allow any in her home. She used to say to me, "When you see one of those (crucifixes), it means someone is going to die". She had nothing Catholic in her home except a Catholic Bible, which no one seemed to read (lol.)

On Friday nights she would light two candles before dinner; she explained it to me as 'an old family custom'. She would also insist on closing the kitchen curtains first. My Mom did this too, so I figured it was normal.

Grandmom did lots of other things that I thought were just typical for Italians (I was very sheltered and Mom's family were the only Italians I knew as a child.)

Grandmom also told me, "You must never eat pork; its dirty and has worms..it can kill you". I was amazed at how much like Jews Italians were!  :laugh:

What a SHOCK I got later in life when I found out that most Italians wear crucifixes and eat pork!  :o

Anyway, in the 1980s I got into genealogy, and met a distant cousin from my mom's side online. The first thing he said to me was, "Did you know your mom's family is Jewish?" I said, "Well, I know SHE is Jewish and so am I, but her family is not".

That was when my cousin Joe sent me a huge file with documentation fro Italy, showing my Mom's family was Ebrei (Hebrews) from way back. They had originally come from Spain, left in 1492 rather than convert to Catholicism, went to Sicily and southern Italy, and later when Spain took those areas over too, they finally decided to convert externally rather than run again, but stayed Jewish in secret (conversos, "marranos").

Naturally over 500 or so years much of that got lost, but they did evidently keep some Jewish customs, which is why my grandmom felt as she did on pork, crucifixes, etc. Grandmom also used to tie a red string around doorknobs of a new home or car; I always thought that was "an Italian thing"; I later learned its from Kabbalah, something many Sefardic Jews were heavily into.

No one in my mom's family ever ate blatant traif like shellfish or pork; in fact when my uncle went into a nursing home, he lied and told them he was allergic to pork/shellfish so they would not feed it to him.

I have to admit when I first learned my family's true history, I developed a very deep hate for the Catholic church, something that I am only recently learning to moderate. I just HATE the way their monarchs STOLE my family's way of life from them!  >:( :'(

This was a hard thing for me because I've been active in the pro-life mvmt for years, which is heavily Catholic, and I began seeing Catholics as my enemy, but I was told by members of a converso genealogy list I belong to that that is a very normal first reaction to finding out about my heritage...they said you mellow out over time, and I have....a bit.

Very intresting and moving story. Thank you for telling it.  :)
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Offline IsraelForever

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Re: Do you guys think this is true or a waste of money?
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2009, 08:03:33 PM »
Wow, what a story indeed!  I can't imagine what it must be like to one day discover that you're not what you thought you were.  If, for example, I discovered that I was really catholic, I think I'd have a total nervous breakdown.  This is not to insult Catholics.  This is just my way of saying that this would cause me a terrific loss of identity.  It would be like a cat waking up one day and finding out it was a dog.  It would be quite a shock!  And the reverse, it seems to me, would also be a shock; that is, to go through life as a Catholic and one day to discover that you were a Jew.  Same thing.  Well, thank God, I can assure you that, in my case, you would only have to look at me to know that I will never have this problem.  And maybe it's not a problem for some people.  Anyhow, that's quite a story.  Thanks for sharing.

Offline JewishAmericanPatriot

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Re: Do you guys think this is true or a waste of money?
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2009, 11:46:55 PM »
Wow, what a story indeed!  I can't imagine what it must be like to one day discover that you're not what you thought you were.  If, for example, I discovered that I was really catholic, I think I'd have a total nervous breakdown.  This is not to insult Catholics.  This is just my way of saying that this would cause me a terrific loss of identity.  It would be like a cat waking up one day and finding out it was a dog.  It would be quite a shock!  And the reverse, it seems to me, would also be a shock; that is, to go through life as a Catholic and one day to discover that you were a Jew.  Same thing.  Well, thank G-d, I can assure you that, in my case, you would only have to look at me to know that I will never have this problem.  And maybe it's not a problem for some people.  Anyhow, that's quite a story.  Thanks for sharing.

Well, for me and my mother, it was not thinking we were Catholic and then finding out we were Jews. Though my mother was raised Catholic, she was really Jewish but didn't know it. She converted to Torah Judaism and not until years later did she find out she was really Jewish by birth all that time anyway.

For me, it was weird finding out my mom's family WAS Jewish, because I always thought of my mom as a convert to Judaism.
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Offline IsraelForever

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Re: Do you guys think this is true or a waste of money?
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2009, 12:06:22 AM »
Yes, I know that my reply didn't correspond exactly to your situation, but more to your mother's.  In a way, your mother's conversion, in hindsight, wasn't even necessary.  Of course, at the time she converted, it WAS necessary, because she didn't know that she was Jewish! 

Offline JewishAmericanPatriot

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Re: Do you guys think this is true or a waste of money?
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2009, 06:42:37 PM »
Yes, I know that my reply didn't correspond exactly to your situation, but more to your mother's.  In a way, your mother's conversion, in hindsight, wasn't even necessary.  Of course, at the time she converted, it WAS necessary, because she didn't know that she was Jewish! 

I know...until the day she died, she couldn't get over finding out she was always Jewish. She started doing a lot of retrospection, and told me of things that never made sense from her childhood, that now did...like the kids in Catholic school who would say to her when she showed up for class on Jewish holydays, "Why are you here? Aren't you Jewish?" She thought they were just trying to tease her, but maybe they recognized her last name as not being truly Italian?

Also, I noticed something when I got into genealogy...I went to the church where she had attended as a child, and when they looked up the records, we found that both she and her brother were not baptized until they were about 12 months old. That's REALLY odd for Catholics of that time.

The Cathiolic church used to teach that babies had to be baptized right away (preferably the same day), because unbapitzed babies did not go to heaven. VERY odd that her parents waited a year. Even the church secretary commented on it!
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