Author Topic: Are self-hating liberal Jews beyond help? Does JTF do "outreach" to them? (Read 2456 times)

Xoce · « **on:** February 11, 2009, 01:50:48 AM »

As in "deformed"/"reformed" Jews, as Chaim calls them
and ALL the LIBERAL Jews, etc etc
who vote for SELF-ANNIHILATION or slow death.
(livni, hussein obama, etc etc)

SavetheWest · « **Reply #1 on:** February 11, 2009, 02:34:24 AM »

Quote from: xoce on February 11, 2009, 01:50:48 AM

As in "deformed"/"reformed" Jews, as Chaim calls them
and ALL the LIBERAL Jews, etc etc
who vote for SELF-ANNIHILATION or slow death.
(livni, hussein obama, etc etc)

They are like that show "intervention."

ChaimBenMordechai · « **Reply #2 on:** February 11, 2009, 10:35:16 AM »

I used to be one

I've dealt with them all too well. Sad to say, they are blinded by their self-hatred. I say..let them find out the hard way

Xoce · « **Reply #3 on:** February 12, 2009, 05:02:20 AM »

Any more thoughts?

Dr. Dan · « **Reply #4 on:** February 13, 2009, 12:36:58 AM »

there is a chance to reason with some with the proper orientation towards understanding kahanism and loving Israel and Jews. But you can't win them all.

outreach should come at a time when kahanism becomes more popular while antisemetism starts rising. We need to bring into all jews' minds that we need to be winners and not feel like losers and enjoy watching sad holocaust movies. We need to request happy victorious movies..

Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks · « **Reply #5 on:** February 13, 2009, 12:46:14 AM »

I honestly think most of them are beyond hope.

Jews who are just worldly and ignorant might be reachable, but the Kadima Jews of the world are probably all a lost cause.

muman613 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 13, 2009, 12:50:16 AM »

Quote from: C.F. on February 13, 2009, 12:46:14 AM

I honestly think most of them are beyond hope.

Jews who are just worldly and ignorant might be reachable, but the Kadima Jews of the world are probably all a lost cause.

Rubbish.... There are many Jews who come back to religion and become pro-Israel. I am a prime example. I was one of those lefty liberal Jews for most of my adult life {from 17-38} and yet now I am fully 100% Israel nationalistic and observant.

As a result I believe it is effective to reach out to Jews of all stripes and levels of observance. This is a basic wisdom of Judaism called Kiruv {Outreach}. I have witnessed many people changing their world view to the truth.

PS: Even my liberal Kadima Israeli friend at work has shifted his position more to the right in the five years we have discussed politics.

Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks · « **Reply #7 on:** February 13, 2009, 12:52:19 AM »

There's a difference between just being secular and liberal and being a true self-hating Nazi.

The former, I said, are reachable (at least some of them). I think though that the Chomskys/Livnis/Rabins of the world are beyond redemption though.

Zelhar · « **Reply #8 on:** February 13, 2009, 07:18:36 AM »

We never give up on them. However in some unfortunate situations we must fight them.

VforVendetta · « **Reply #9 on:** February 13, 2009, 07:38:53 AM »

Quote from: Zelhar on February 13, 2009, 07:18:36 AM

We never give up on them. However in some unfortunate situations we must fight them.

Zelhar said the right thing.
That is why we have to avoid calling them Nazis etc.
You also have to understand that most of the power Likud and Kadima and Shas have is coming from innocent, naive and sometimes ignorant jews.
Those jews are our brothers, they are not guilty they were brainwashed all these years, they think that when Livni says "WE are not Giving Up"
she really means it. They think that when our suicidal leaders say "Never again" (referring to the holocaust), They really mean it.
Belive me alot of my relatives and friends voted for Likud and even Shas, yes, thats what I am trying to explain to you all.
So we must never give up hope on any jew, trust me if only they had any idea what they are missing, If they ever had a chance to hear our voices in JTF,
they would so quickly change their minds.

AsheDina · « **Reply #10 on:** February 13, 2009, 07:54:51 AM »

Quote from: VforVendetta on February 13, 2009, 07:38:53 AM

Quote from: Zelhar on February 13, 2009, 07:18:36 AM
We never give up on them. However in some unfortunate situations we must fight them.
Zelhar said the right thing.
That is why we have to avoid calling them Nazis etc.
You also have to understand that most of the power Likud and Kadima and Shas have is coming from innocent, naive and sometimes ignorant jews.
Those jews are our brothers, they are not guilty they were brainwashed all these years, they think that when Livni says "WE are not Giving Up"
she really means it. They think that when our suicidal leaders say "Never again" (referring to the holocaust), They really mean it.
Belive me alot of my relatives and friends voted for Likud and even Shas, yes, thats what I am trying to explain to you all.
So we must never give up hope on any jew, trust me if only they had any idea what they are missing, If they ever had a chance to hear our voices in JTF,
they would so quickly change their minds.

For leftist Jews in USA, I really dont think there will be a change, UNTIL harsh persecution comes, UNFORTUNATELY, it is here. JTF protects ALL Jews. I have a leftist on my email. I rebuke her as much as take up for her.

VforVendetta · « **Reply #11 on:** February 13, 2009, 07:57:28 AM »

I am not talking about those Billionare jews in USA, of course they are leftist and they will never change, they are the ones who start everything,
we have the same jews in Israel, 5 families who control all the economy and the media, and they are the ones who seed the leftist Ideas and brainwash everyone.

AsheDina · « **Reply #12 on:** February 13, 2009, 08:10:33 AM »

Quote from: VforVendetta on February 13, 2009, 07:57:28 AM

I am not talking about those Billionare jews in USA, of course they are leftist and they will never change, they are the ones who start everything,
we have the same jews in Israel, 5 families who control all the economy and the media, and they are the ones who seed the leftist Ideas and brainwash everyone.

They didnt ask if we were left or right going into the chambers or the FORCEFUL INDOCTRINATIONS!! G-d I HATE forceful indoctrinators! Well, Bernie Madoff---- MADE OFF with the rich Jewish $$ so, POETIC Justice? I think so. They will repent and turn back very soon. I hope they will, and come and THROW ALL SUPPORT HERE, ALL OF IT.

VforVendetta · « **Reply #13 on:** February 13, 2009, 08:36:24 AM »

I think that your Poll itself is not comprehensive enough, I couldnt fine my opinion, most of the things you chose are similar.

ChaimBenMordechai · « **Reply #14 on:** February 13, 2009, 09:50:18 AM »

If you want to see an example of a self-hating Jew, just look up the name Kivie Kaplan.

GoIsraelGo! · « **Reply #15 on:** February 13, 2009, 09:59:43 AM »

Quote from: xoce on February 12, 2009, 05:02:20 AM

Any more thoughts?

My sister in law is Orthodox, I have attempted to reason with her on a number of ocassions about Moslems.
She is so stubborn and keeps her eyes closed to the truth about the Moslems and Islam.
How can she stand Moslems knowing that they have a quest to kill Jews and destroy Israel?
How can my sister in law go to Shul and dare to be in G-d's presence while she likes Israel's enemy?
The only conclusion I can come up with is she is ignorant, or she is a dihimmi Jew who thinks we
should all live under Islamic law.

eb22 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 13, 2009, 10:44:11 AM »

Hi Dox,

Is your Sister aware of JTF?

What I would consider is sending her one or two of the videos that JTF did on Islam:

Some of them are JTF's home page. http://www.jtf.org/

Many are on the JTF Archives site http://www.jtfarchive.org/youtube_videos.pl

If these videos don't have an impact on her, then its an uphill battle ( though not hopeless ) to change her point of view.

teddyR · « **Reply #17 on:** February 13, 2009, 11:01:48 AM »

Liberalism is a mental disorder. Think about it, if a person honestly believes taking (stealing) the fruits of somebody else's labor (e.g. taxing one person to pay for someone else) is "social justice", that person is not a psychologically sound individual.

Whether or not it's curable is another story.

GoIsraelGo! · « **Reply #18 on:** February 13, 2009, 11:11:18 AM »

Quote from: eb22 on February 13, 2009, 10:44:11 AM

Hi Dox,

Is your Sister aware of JTF?

What I would consider is sending her one or two of the videos that JTF did on Islam:

Some of them are JTF's home page. http://www.jtf.org/

Many are on the JTF Archives site http://www.jtfarchive.org/youtube_videos.pl

If these videos don't have an impact on her, then its an uphill battle ( though not hopeless ) to change her point of view.

Hi eb22, I have no idea if she is aware of the JFT or not. My sister in law would think this is racist against Moslems so I won't even bother.
I do appreciate your suggestion though. I know her well and she is not one to change her mind, even if the evidence is right before her eyes.
This is sad. My brother used to be Conservative, politically speaking. Now I believe she has turned him into a Liberal.
My sister in law keeps busy raising her children and works for her Shul. While I commend her for her being a good jew, I condemn her for keeping her eyes shut to the truth about Islam and Moslems. I get the feeling she may not be able to handle the truth ( psychologically ) because it may be too much for her to bear, or it could be her stubborness alone. I am not sure of which reason.
Thanks for the suggestion eb22..may G-d bless you always and keep you safe!

Shalom - Dox

arksis · « **Reply #19 on:** February 13, 2009, 11:12:55 AM »

I agree that we cannot give up! I guess more to the point, is like VforVendetta says, stop calling them Nazis and using negative name calling. Stay more focused on the REASON that Moslems are taking over the world and WHY and then ask them if they understand this. If not, then we'll HAVE to show them clips on the internet so they can see it with their own eyes. I am amazed at how many people have such an opinion on others, yet NEVER read a newspaper or watch the news! I mean AMAZED! I just want to ask them what planet they are from!

eb22 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 13, 2009, 11:23:52 AM »

Quote from: republicandox on February 13, 2009, 11:11:18 AM

Quote from: eb22 on February 13, 2009, 10:44:11 AM
Hi Dox,

Is your Sister aware of JTF?

What I would consider is sending her one or two of the videos that JTF did on Islam:

Some of them are JTF's home page. http://www.jtf.org/

Many are on the JTF Archives site http://www.jtfarchive.org/youtube_videos.pl

If these videos don't have an impact on her, then its an uphill battle ( though not hopeless ) to change her point of view.

Hi eb22, I have no idea if she is aware of the JFT or not. My sister in law would think this is racist against Moslems so I won't even bother.
I do appreciate your suggestion though. I know her well and she is not one to change her mind, even if the evidence is right before her eyes.
This is sad. My brother used to be Conservative, politically speaking. Now I believe she has turned him into a Liberal.
My sister in law keeps busy raising her children and works for her Shul. While I commend her for her being a good jew, I condemn her for keeping her eyes shut to the truth about Islam and Moslems. I get the feeling she may not be able to handle the truth ( psychologically ) because it may be too much for her to bear, or it could be her stubborness alone. I am not sure of which reason.
Thanks for the suggestion eb22..may G-d bless you always and keep you safe!

Shalom - Dox

Thanks, Dox.

It seems like it's indeed an uphill battle with your Sister In-Law ( I inadvertently wrote Sister in my previous reply. ).

Here's my two cents on the situation. Based on what you mentioned, if it was just your Sister In-Law who was being affected by her liberal positions, I wouldn't go the extra mile to convince her to change her mind. Because your brother and their children are being influenced by your Sister In-Law's liberal positions, at the very least I believe you should share the JTF site with your brother. If their children become liberals, it's going to be difficult for them to see the light later on.

~Hanna~ · « **Reply #21 on:** February 13, 2009, 11:29:01 AM »

Personally, I only feel someone is beyond redemption is when they are dead...

But that is just me....

There is still hope, in my opinion.....

The most powerful weapon we have is prayer.....

GoIsraelGo! · « **Reply #22 on:** February 13, 2009, 12:12:28 PM »

Thanks eb22, I will tell my brother about it. If his wife finds out I am 100 percent sure she will scream about it and he will do the usual, give in to her for the sake of peace in his home. This is the worst thing about Liberals, their stubborness leads to control issues with other family members. If Liberals are not challenged, they are quite nice. You challenge them and all hell breaks loose.

Shalom - Dox : )

zachor_ve_kavod · « **Reply #23 on:** February 13, 2009, 12:19:32 PM »

Quote from: teddyR on February 13, 2009, 11:01:48 AM

Liberalism is a mental disorder. Think about it, if a person honestly believes taking (stealing) the fruits of somebody else's labor (e.g. taxing one person to pay for someone else) is "social justice", that person is not a psychologically sound individual.

Whether or not it's curable is another story.

I think that's true, except I would add that Jewish self-hatred is a pathology, a real sickness. It may be possible to cure them, but it is very unlikely.

muman613 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 13, 2009, 12:24:56 PM »

Quote from: republicandox on February 13, 2009, 12:12:28 PM

Thanks eb22, I will tell my brother about it. If his wife finds out I am 100 percent sure she will scream about it and he will do the usual, give in to her for the sake of peace in his home. This is the worst thing about Liberals, their stubborness leads to control issues with other family members. If Liberals are not challenged, they are quite nice. You challenge them and all hell breaks loose.

Shalom - Dox : )

Then my family must be an exception. My mother and father always were on opposite ends of the left/right spectrum. My mother has moved to the right over the years and my father has mellowed hard-right opinions {he admitted that the Beatles made good music}.

It is possible for families to have differences in political outlooks. We should always remember that they are a part of us and try to be understanding. In my personal relationship with my brother, who was always the good guy, and I was the 'bad' guy, there was much jealousy and resentment. I really wish I could have cleared the slate with my brother before he was murdered by the muslim terrorists. I always thought there would be 20-30 more years to rectify the situation.