General Category > General Discussion
orthodox jew wanna be [censored] rappa what would chaim and david think of this guy?
jdl4ever:
I am a amateur musician I guess and think there are 3 types of music based on the methods one must use to sing them (I practice singing on my spare time and play guitar).
Opera style music which is the same as old style Europian Cantor prayer music (oh, I come from a line of famous cantors) is sung deeply from one's lungs and it takes a lot of practice to sing this way (took me five years to develop the talent to sing this way).
Pop music is sung in a speaking style with very little vibrato of the opera style mixed in once in a while to give it an edge.
Rock music is sung in a rough edgy manner.
Every other style of music is based on one of these three styles. The only genuine musical style is the first, opera style since a talented singer can sing this very load so hundreds of people can hear one sing without a mic. The other 2 styles are of modern era out of necessity since no one can sing these styles of music loud enough to be heard over a band or for hundreds of people to hear without a mic. Rock music is of even more modern origin since it absolutely needs compression for it to sound like rock music. No one can sing a genuine rock song by mouth without using a microphone with a compressor. Pop music and rock music need microphones to be heard so they are not really as genuine as opera style music. The real music is opera which the last songs sung this way was duop and a few celine dion songs here and there.
Addendum: Modern rap music basically someone speaks using very heavy compression so it gives the voice an upfront type of sound. It requires no talent. All you need is a compressor and you can be a rapper.
Allen-T:
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on March 25, 2007, 02:52:15 AM ---Where did pop come from? Where did Britney type music come from? Did it come from rock originally?
--- End quote ---
Here is a loose theory of mine; Rock and Roll from the 1950's was very catchy and simple, beautiful little nuggets of sound. As the 60's rolled on things started to expand and influences from everywhere started to flesh out Rock and Roll and the "catchy and simple" pop song was sometimes embellished, sometimes discarded. As the 70's rolled on the expansion was being taken to absurd heights[Emerson Lake & Palmer touring with a 100 piece Orchestra, Pink Floyds huge Animals floating around the venues] and still the "catchy & simple" pop tune never totally disappeared. Then, as the youth in England were becoming fed up with all this pomp and circumstance in "Rock" the lone catchy and simple pop song remerged and it was pissed off. The freight train called Punk was about to wreak havoc!! Sex Pistols singer Johnny Rotten regularly trashed every icon known to the rock pantheon. Once the temperature dropped a bit this led the way to New Wave, a sanitized version of punk that was radio friendly. Britney Spears is a twinkle in her father's eye at this point. Truth is that the more corporate interests touch something the dirtier and weaker it becomes, combined with a general dumbing down of people. The greatest pop song writers in my opinion were Marc Bolan & T-Rex,The Beatles and Elton John. Kurt Cobain had a great pop sensability that made Nirvana a good group, I think.
Mishmaat:
--- Quote from: Allen-T on March 25, 2007, 02:25:37 AM ---Rap music first appeared around 1969-1970 with Gil Scott-Heron and the Last Poets. They both recited poetic Black Panther rhetoric over conga drums initially and later jazzed up funk. Both are musically great but their ideas are not. By the end of the 1970's Rap was beginning to take the shape of a "rapper" rhyming over "beats" meaning a DJ that manipulated two copies of the same record at once to create a static "beat", something VERY difficult to do, by the way. Rap is a totally black "street" art form that initially was an intended replacement for gang violence in the South Bronx, gangsters battle rapped with their words instead of weapons. By the late 80's technology was such that samplers replaced the dual turntable thing and "beats" became more sophisticated and multi-layered. Myself and a friend were specialising in "beat digging" at that time, that is finding interesting sounds on obscure records and selling them to the highest bidder. So I was in that world for awhile and made alot of money digging up beats. The record companies were throwing money at these guys in the early 90's to buy "samples/beats" and there were some very talented producers, like DJ Premier. The current degenerate sounding rap noise is no different than the degeneration that has gone on in music in general. Can you compare 60's 70's rock like Jimi Hendrix, Pink Floyd, Lynyrd Skynyrd or Blondie to crap like Kid Rock or Limp Bizkit? By the way, the greatest DJ/Producer in the world who has a grasp of music in general that makes me feel stupid is a white guy named DJ Shadow :-*
--- End quote ---
This is very informative and you are very knowledgable. I'd just like to insert one comment: Kid Rock and Limp Bizkit fall under a new genre of "music" called "nu-metal" which is a fusion of rap and rock.
Allen-T:
--- Quote from: jdl4ever on March 25, 2007, 03:04:01 AM ---I am a amateur musician I guess and think there are 3 types of music based on the methods one must use to sing them (I practice singing on my spare time and play guitar).
Opera style music which is the same as old style Europian Cantor prayer music (oh, I come from a line of famous cantors) is sung deeply from one's lungs and it takes a lot of practice to sing this way (took me five years to develop the talent to sing this way).
Pop music is sung in a speaking style with very little vibrato of the opera style mixed in once in a while to give it an edge.
Rock music is sung in a rough edgy manner.
Every other style of music is based on one of these three styles. The only genuine musical style is the first, opera style since a talented singer can sing this very load so hundreds of people can hear one sing without a mic. The other 2 styles are of modern era out of necessity since no one can sing these styles of music loud enough to be heard over a band or for hundreds of people to hear without a mic. Rock music is of even more modern origin since it absolutely needs compression for it to sound like rock music. No one can sing a genuine rock song by mouth without using a microphone with a compressor. Pop music and rock music need microphones to be heard so they are not really as genuine as opera style music. The real music is opera which the last songs sung this way was duop and a few celine dion songs here and there.
Addendum: Modern rap music basically someone speaks using very heavy compression so it gives the voice an upfront type of sound. It requires no talent. All you need is a compressor and you can be a rapper.
--- End quote ---
Although some of your technical points may be correct I think you are also over generalising things. Etta James could project herself quite effectively without a mic, and although I love Maria Callas I find Opera terribly boring, all technique and for me often no substance. I think because it is so unnatural. People don't communicate that way, wailing at one another! Lotsa technique, but very dull for me. Though I did hear some Wagner opera music yesterday that way pretty intense.
Allen-T:
--- Quote from: Yirmiyahu on March 25, 2007, 03:23:37 AM ---
--- Quote from: Allen-T on March 25, 2007, 02:25:37 AM ---Rap music first appeared around 1969-1970 with Gil Scott-Heron and the Last Poets. They both recited poetic Black Panther rhetoric over conga drums initially and later jazzed up funk. Both are musically great but their ideas are not. By the end of the 1970's Rap was beginning to take the shape of a "rapper" rhyming over "beats" meaning a DJ that manipulated two copies of the same record at once to create a static "beat", something VERY difficult to do, by the way. Rap is a totally black "street" art form that initially was an intended replacement for gang violence in the South Bronx, gangsters battle rapped with their words instead of weapons. By the late 80's technology was such that samplers replaced the dual turntable thing and "beats" became more sophisticated and multi-layered. Myself and a friend were specialising in "beat digging" at that time, that is finding interesting sounds on obscure records and selling them to the highest bidder. So I was in that world for awhile and made alot of money digging up beats. The record companies were throwing money at these guys in the early 90's to buy "samples/beats" and there were some very talented producers, like DJ Premier. The current degenerate sounding rap noise is no different than the degeneration that has gone on in music in general. Can you compare 60's 70's rock like Jimi Hendrix, Pink Floyd, Lynyrd Skynyrd or Blondie to crap like Kid Rock or Limp Bizkit? By the way, the greatest DJ/Producer in the world who has a grasp of music in general that makes me feel stupid is a white guy named DJ Shadow :-*
--- End quote ---
This is very informative and you are very knowledgable. I'd just like to insert one comment: Kid Rock and Limp Bizkit fall under a new genre of "music" called "nu-metal" which is a fusion of rap and rock.
--- End quote ---
It's not new, Run-DMC and Aerosmith did that 20 years ago and Public Enemy and Anthrax did it about 17 years ago. :)
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