Author Topic: New witnesses regarding Karadzic-Holbrooke deal  (Read 8918 times)

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Offline george_jtf

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New witnesses regarding Karadzic-Holbrooke deal
« on: March 23, 2009, 12:06:30 PM »
On the following link is the article regarding about how Holbrooke has repeatedly lied that he did not make any deal with Radovan Karadzic:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/03/22/europe/bosnia.php

Every time Radovan Karadzic, the onetime Bosnian Serb leader, appears in court on war crimes charges, he hammers on one recurring claim: A senior American official pledged that he would never be standing there.

The official, Richard C. Holbrooke, now a special representative on Afghanistan and Pakistan for the Obama administration, has repeatedly denied having promised Mr. Karadzic immunity from prosecution in exchange for abandoning power after the Bosnian war.

But the rumor persists, and different versions have recently emerged that line up with Mr. Karadzic's assertion, including a new historical study of the Yugoslav wars published by Purdue University in Indiana.

Charles W. Ingrao, the study's co-editor, said that three senior State Department officials, one of them retired, and several other people with knowledge of Mr. Holbrooke's activities had told him that Mr. Holbrooke had assured Mr. Karadzic in July 1996 that he would not be pursued by the war crimes tribunal in The Hague if he left politics.

Mr. Karadzic had already been charged by the tribunal with genocide and other crimes against civilians.

Two of the people cited anonymously in the new study, a former senior State Department official who spent almost a decade in the Balkans and another American who was involved with international peacekeeping there in the 1990s, provided additional details in interviews with The New York Times, speaking on condition that they not be further identified.

The former State Department official said he had been told of the offer by people who were close to Mr. Holbrooke's team at the time. The other person said Mr. Holbrooke had personally and emphatically told him about the deal on two occasions.

While the two men agreed, as one of them put it, that "Holbrooke did the right thing and got the job done," the recurring story of the deal has dogged Mr. Holbrooke.

Last summer, after more than a decade on the run, Mr. Karadzic was found living disguised in Belgrade, Serbia's capital. He was arrested and sent to the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia in The Hague for his trial, which is expected to start this year.

Asked for comment for this article, Mr. Holbrooke repeated his denial in a written statement. "No one in the U.S. government ever promised anything, nor made a deal of any sort with Karadzic," he said, noting that Mr. Karadzic had stepped down in the summer of 1996 under intense American pressure.

"In subsequent meetings, as a private citizen, I repeatedly urged officials in both the Clinton and Bush administrations to capture Karadzic," Mr. Holbrooke said. "I am glad he has finally been brought to justice, even though he uses his public platform to disseminate these fabrications."

Mr. Holbrooke declined to accept further questions and did not address the specifics of the new accounts.

Mr. Karadzic, by insisting that he is exempt from legal proceedings, has now forced the war crimes tribunal to deal with his allegations, illustrating the difficulty of both administering international justice and conducting diplomacy.

In December, tribunal judges ruled that even if a deal had been made, it would have no bearing on a trial. They said no immunity agreement would be valid before an international tribunal in a case of genocide, war crimes or crimes against humanity. Mr. Karadzic is charged with all three.

But Mr. Karadzic has appealed and filed motions demanding that prosecutors disclose every scrap of confidential evidence about negotiations with Mr. Holbrooke. He has asked his lawyers to seek meetings with American diplomats.

His demands have led the court to write to the United States government for clarification.

Peter Robinson, a lawyer for Mr. Karadzic, said he had received a promise from Washington that he could interview Philip S. Goldberg, who was on the Holbrooke team meeting in Belgrade the night the resignation was negotiated.

"Goldberg took the notes at that meeting," Mr. Robinson said. "The U.S. government has agreed to search for the notes and provide them if they find them."

A State Department spokesman said the government was cooperating with the tribunal but would provide no further details.

Mr. Holbrooke, who brokered the peace agreement that ended the Bosnian war in 1995, returned to Belgrade in 1996 to press Mr. Karadzic to resign as president of the Bosnian Serb republic. Mr. Holbrooke's memoirs recount a night of fierce negotiation on July 18, 1996, but make no mention of any pledge of immunity.

The Purdue University study, "Confronting the Yugoslav Controversies: A Scholars' Initiative," says that Mr. Holbrooke "instructed his principal assistant, Christopher Hill, to draft the memorandum to be signed by Karadzic," committing him to give up power.
Mr. Ingrao said Mr. Holbrooke had used Slobodan Milosevic, then the Serbian leader, and other Serbian officials as intermediaries to convey the promise of immunity and to reach the deal with Mr. Karadzic.

"The agreement almost came to grief when Holbrooke vigorously refused Karadzic's demand, and Hill's appeal, that he affix his signature to it," the study says, citing unidentified State Department sources.

The study, the product of eight years of research by historians, jurists and social scientists from all sides of the conflict, was an effort to reconcile disparate views of the wars that tore the former Yugoslavia apart in the 1990s, Mr. Ingrao said.

Neither Mr. Hill nor Mr. Goldberg responded to requests for interviews for this article.

In an interview, the former State Department official, who had access to confidential reports and to members of the Holbrooke team, said that in 1996, Mr. Karadzic had wanted written assurances that he would not be pursued for war crimes and had refused to sign without them.

"Holbrooke told the Serbs, 'You can give him my word he won't be pursued,' but Holbrooke refused to sign anything," the official said. Mr. Holbrooke could make that promise because he knew that American and other Western militaries in Bosnia were not then making arrests, the official said.

American and NATO troops had no orders to arrest indicted Bosnians, for fear of inciting local rebellion.

In the brief statement Mr. Karadzic eventually signed, he agreed to withdraw "from all political activities" and to step down from office. It carried the signatures of Mr. Milosevic and four other Serbian leaders acting as witnesses and guarantors. It did not include any Americans' names and made no mention of immunity.

The American who had been involved in peacekeeping insisted in an interview that Mr. Holbrooke himself had told him that he had made a deal with Mr. Karadzic to get him to leave politics. He recalled meeting Mr. Holbrooke in Sarajevo on the eve of Bosnian elections in November 2000, just after Mr. Milosevic had finally been ousted from power in Serbia.

Mr. Holbrooke was worried about the outcome of the Bosnian vote because he knew that Mr. Karadzic was still secretly running his nationalist political party and picking candidates who had run prison camps and organized massacres.

"Holbrooke was angry; he was ranting," the American said. . He quoted Mr. Holbrooke as saying: "That son of a [censored] Karadzic. I made a deal with him that if he'd pull out of politics, we wouldn't go after him. He's broken that deal, and now we're going to get him."

Mr. Karadzic's party won those elections in the Bosnian Serb republic. Shortly afterward, he disappeared.



IS THERE NO END TO LIES WITH THIS CLINTON SCUMBAG?

Offline SerbChicago

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Re: New witnesses regarding Karadzic-Holbrooke deal
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2009, 02:58:35 PM »
Good article.
The truth,justice and Serbian way

Offline Mario

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Re: New witnesses regarding Karadzic-Holbrooke deal
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2009, 07:40:02 PM »
Where do serbs see The Republic of Serbia in the future? Do you guys see it joining Serbia Proper? Do you want it joining Serbia proper? What about the Bosnia and Hercegovina as a whole? Its a melting pot really when you think about it. You have Serbs (orthodox), Croats (Catholics) and Bosnians (muslims). This is something that needs to be adressed because the status quo wont hold. I think the serbs should take what they have already and the Croats should annex thier territories and leave the muslims with the crumbs. Is it possible for a militry alliance with the Croats against the muslims? Lets face it in this day and age nobody want islam in thier country. They are the cancer of europe and they are spreading at an alarming rate. Just look at Germany they are infested with Turks. France as well.

Offline Nik_Srb

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Re: New witnesses regarding Karadzic-Holbrooke deal
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2009, 12:23:55 PM »
the "croats" have far to much land then really belongs to them,and the areas in bosnia they live today,they got it by killing serbs with they're muslim brothers in the last 100 years(i say brothers,because they are bought people defected(by outside influence!) from the main part of the ppl,and took other religion(were forced to accept it!)so they are basicaly card with which they can start a war any time "they"(ouside influence) want,and basicaly every little more smarter person and those most important proclamed them selves catholic/muslim serbs,from the top of my brain,Ivo Andric,Mesa Selimovic...)


Offline Jasmina

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Re: New witnesses regarding Karadzic-Holbrooke deal
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2009, 02:36:38 PM »
Is it possible for a militry alliance with the Croats against the muslims?

  No way!
The whole system works because everyone is not mentally ill on the same day!!!!

Offline Mario

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Re: New witnesses regarding Karadzic-Holbrooke deal
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2009, 04:27:39 PM »
What about the flip side of that coin? What if Muslims and Croats join together? Bosnia as an independant fully functioning state in the heart of europe controlled by muslims is a scary thought. Do you know they preach wahhabi islam in the mosques in Sarajevo. Thats the same strict militant islam followed by Osama Bin Laden. This maybe a case of the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Offline Jasmina

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Re: New witnesses regarding Karadzic-Holbrooke deal
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2009, 04:45:44 PM »
  What do you want to demonstrate by posting pictures with NAziSerbs here and then saying Serbia needs to ally with Croats to fight Muslims!?
The whole system works because everyone is not mentally ill on the same day!!!!

Offline Mario

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Re: New witnesses regarding Karadzic-Holbrooke deal
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2009, 04:51:06 PM »
Because I dont like muslims thats why.

Offline Spectator

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Re: New witnesses regarding Karadzic-Holbrooke deal
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2009, 05:07:55 PM »
Because I dont like muslims thats why.

You need to study recent Serbian history to understand why Serbs don't consider siding with Croats against anyone. Just google for words "Jasenovac", "Stara Gradiska", "Oluja" and you'll understand.
Do not put your trust in princes, nor in a son of man, in whom there is no help (Psalms 146:3)

Offline Jasmina

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Re: New witnesses regarding Karadzic-Holbrooke deal
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2009, 05:09:52 PM »
Because I dont like muslims thats why.

  That's very good!! We don't like Muslims too! but that is not the case for you to compromize Serbs reputation by posting nazi stuff about us! We are not nazi lovers!
The whole system works because everyone is not mentally ill on the same day!!!!

Offline Nik_Srb

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Re: New witnesses regarding Karadzic-Holbrooke deal
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2009, 05:17:13 PM »
What about the flip side of that coin? What if Muslims and Croats join together? Bosnia as an independant fully functioning state in the heart of europe controlled by muslims is a scary thought. Do you know they preach wahhabi islam in the mosques in Sarajevo. Thats the same strict militant islam followed by Osama Bin Laden. This maybe a case of the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

fully functioning???you kidding me?they are a nato puppet!dude?! hey?! and thats why ypu have saudi mosques in sarajevo.

Offline Mario

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Re: New witnesses regarding Karadzic-Holbrooke deal
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2009, 05:23:49 PM »
I didnt say it was, I said IF it was.

Offline sonja_yu

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Re: New witnesses regarding Karadzic-Holbrooke deal
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2009, 06:04:06 PM »
Where do serbs see The Republic of Serbia in the future? Do you guys see it joining Serbia Proper? Do you want it joining Serbia proper? What about the Bosnia and Hercegovina as a whole? Its a melting pot really when you think about it. You have Serbs (orthodox), Croats (Catholics) and Bosnians (muslims). This is something that needs to be adressed because the status quo wont hold. I think the serbs should take what they have already and the Croats should annex thier territories and leave the muslims with the crumbs. Is it possible for a militry alliance with the Croats against the muslims? Lets face it in this day and age nobody want islam in thier country. They are the cancer of europe and they are spreading at an alarming rate. Just look at Germany they are infested with Turks. France as well.

Are you on Muslim side or are you just stealing the name of Bosnian people by accident?
MUSLIMS are only some 44% of population there. In the past, it was even less.
What rights do Muslims have to declare ONLY themselves as "Bosnians", while Bosnian has geographic meaning and it is applied to EVERYONE who lives in that mixed federal state called Bosnia and Herzegovina?
What rights do they have to claim the whole country, while they have never been even a half and while they are in identity crisis, since they deny their origins?
Come on, explain!

Offline sonja_yu

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Re: New witnesses regarding Karadzic-Holbrooke deal
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2009, 06:24:25 PM »
I didnt say it was, I said IF it was.

You have been asked SOMETHNG ELSE by Jasmina and it is expected from you to answer it.

Offline Mario

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Re: New witnesses regarding Karadzic-Holbrooke deal
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2009, 08:09:23 PM »
First of all you idiot, I was responding to Nik_Srb, not Jasmina. Secondly I dont understand your tirade about me using the term Bosnian, I was referring to the muslim population in Bosnia. I have no clue what point you are trying to make. How old are u btw?

Offline sonja_yu

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Re: New witnesses regarding Karadzic-Holbrooke deal
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2009, 10:00:06 PM »
First of all you idiot, I was responding to Nik_Srb, not Jasmina. Secondly I dont understand your tirade about me using the term Bosnian, I was referring to the muslim population in Bosnia. I have no clue what point you are trying to make. How old are u btw?

Look who's talking!
You don't even have basic knowledge about the region ad YOU are calling ME an idiot???

Than you should say MUSLIMS, not BOSNIANS.
Do you understand now, or, is it still too hard for you?

Offline Mario

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Re: New witnesses regarding Karadzic-Holbrooke deal
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2009, 10:02:05 PM »
actually that is not correct. Im a catholic, but when people ask me what your nationality is I dont say catholic I say Italian. So there is a difference. OWNED.

Offline sonja_yu

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Re: New witnesses regarding Karadzic-Holbrooke deal
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2009, 10:05:49 PM »
actually that is not correct. Im a catholic, but when people ask me what your nationality is I dont say catholic I say Italian. So there is a difference. OWNED.

"Owned", how?

For your information, they are a fake nation invented by Tito, called by Communists "Muslim by nationality", they are only 44% of B&H and have NO RIGH, to take for themselves the name of the WHOLE region!

Offline Mario

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Re: New witnesses regarding Karadzic-Holbrooke deal
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2009, 10:10:27 PM »
actually that is not correct. Im a catholic, but when people ask me what your nationality is I dont say catholic I say Italian. So there is a difference. OWNED.

"Owned", how?

For your information, they are a fake nation invented by Tito, called by Communists "Muslim by nationality", they are only 44% of B&H and have NO RIGH, to take for themselves the name of the WHOLE region!




well my point is that its not correct to distinguish a people by RELIGION. What are people in Egypt? Egyptian or Muslims? There are many muslims in the world. Unfortunately. ;D


Why are we even arguing this?

Offline Serbian Canadian

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Re: New witnesses regarding Karadzic-Holbrooke deal
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2009, 10:24:24 PM »
There is no such thing as a "Bosnian". They used to call themselves Bosniaks, now they call themselves Bosnians. Yet a Bosnian can be a Muslim, Catholic or Christian Orthodox. They can only be turks or serbian muslims by blood, there is no such thing as a Bosniak. There is no such thing as a Kosovar, only Albanian.

The terms "Bosnian" and "Kosovar" are both made up terms. That's the point. They never existed before.

Offline Mario

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Re: New witnesses regarding Karadzic-Holbrooke deal
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2009, 10:26:01 PM »
There is no such thing as a "Bosnian". They used to call themselves Bosniaks, now they call themselves Bosnians. Yet a Bosnian can be a Muslim, Catholic or Christian Orthodox. They can only be turks or serbian muslims by blood, there is no such thing as a Bosniak. There is no such thing as a Kosovar, only Albanian.

The terms "Bosnian" and "Kosovar" are both made up terms. That's the point. They never existed before.


whatever man than what the hell do I call MUSLIMS FROM BOSNIA?

Offline Serbian Canadian

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Re: New witnesses regarding Karadzic-Holbrooke deal
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2009, 10:26:50 PM »
Bosnian Muslims! That's what they called themselves before the war.

Offline Mario

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Re: New witnesses regarding Karadzic-Holbrooke deal
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2009, 10:28:19 PM »
Alrighty than.

Offline sonja_yu

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Re: New witnesses regarding Karadzic-Holbrooke deal
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2009, 10:43:08 PM »
Alrighty than.

If he wasn't dead, I would tell you to ask Tito that, but since he is dead, I will tell you, THEY NEEDED A NEW NATIONALITY, they have made a "nationality" upon religion called "Muslim by nationality", than called Bosniaks, NOT Bosnians.
Muslims can be Bosnians, Bosnians are NOT Muslims!
And you here are talking something, you have absolutely NO idea what you're talking about and you still can tell me "OWNED"???

Offline Serbian Canadian

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Re: New witnesses regarding Karadzic-Holbrooke deal
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2009, 10:45:48 PM »
Ma Sonja nemoj da gubis vreme ni energiju sa ovim kretenom.