If anyone wants to have a battle of with with some athiests/pagans, let me know

[~Hanna~]

I am a moderator at a Christian forum, but all the Christians seem to be non-existant.

We need some fresh blood over there....

If anyone here likes to discuss/argue things with athiests/pagans, let me know, you can sign up and PM me your name there and I will approve you right away.....(they send me an email but too many spambots, so gotta do it this way).

All they do is find ways to pick on me and Im tired of it.

help.

http://www.laststophell.com/repent/



if you sign up, PM me here and Ill approve you, I just need to know your screenname.

thanks.

p.s. I am Screaming Eagle.

 

I even had a Christian there putting me down cuz I was not all for Obama....there, I could not believe it.

[~Hanna~]

I am a moderator at a Christian forum, but all the Christians seem to be non-existant.

We need some fresh blood over there....

If anyone here likes to discuss/argue things with athiests/pagans, let me know, you can sign up and PM me your name there and I will approve you right away.....(they send me an email but too many spambots, so gotta do it this way).

All they do is find ways to pick on me and Im tired of it.

help.

http://www.laststophell.com/repent/



if you sign up, PM me here and Ill approve you, I just need to know your screenname.

thanks.

p.s. I am Screaming Eagle.

 

I even had a Christian there putting me down cuz I was not all for Obama....there, I could not believe it.




[Let me warn you though, YOU WILL NEED THICK SKIN TO BE OVER THERE, cuz they will try to push your buttons.../quote]

[~Hanna~]

I really botched up this thread, didnt I?

[~Hanna~]

Well, let me know.

I guess you would have to be realoy bored to go over there.....

[Shamgar]

BaptistJihad is knocking at the door...   

[Lisa]

Hanna, I don't think I would worry about average atheists and pagans.  I mean, if you like arguing with them on your own time, that's your business. 

But as I see it, we need to focus on opposing B. Hussein, so he doesn't ruin America more than he's already done.  We also need to fight against the Islamo terrorists, and their domestic apologists on the left here in the media, Hollyweird and academia. 

[~Hanna~]

[Ok,Ill go let you in right now.

We have had oh, at least two dozen Christians over there and gave up....

its a tough, but loveable group...Jackis a Christian, he just gets drunk alot....

.quote author=Shamgar link=topic=34221.msg346737#msg346737 date=1240966770]
BaptistJihad is knocking at the door...   
[/quote]

[~Hanna~]

[Yes, but just so you all know, everyone over there is FOR Obama, except me, I think...

Well, all the ones posting, anyway....

quote author=Lisa link=topic=34221.msg346744#msg346744 date=1240968538]
Hanna, I don't think I would worry about average atheists and pagans.  I mean, if you like arguing with them on your own time, that's your business. 

But as I see it, we need to focus on opposing B. Hussein, so he doesn't ruin America more than he's already done.  We also need to fight against the Islamo terrorists, and their domestic apologists on the left here in the media, Hollyweird and academia. 


[/quote]

[~Hanna~]

I think some of them are Muslims, too, not sure, but they talk like they could be. They really hate Christians though.

I could be wrong.

[Rubystars]

I've got some good experience doing just that, but I don't know how your Christian friends would deal with me. I'm a little bit of an enigma. Some Christians think I'm going to hell because I accept certain scientific principles even though I definitely believe God had his creative Hand involved in every step.

[briann]

I've got some good experience doing just that, but I don't know how your Christian friends would deal with me. I'm a little bit of an enigma. Some Christians think I'm going to hell because I accept certain scientific principles even though I definitely believe G-d had his creative Hand involved in every step.

I assume you are talking about intelligent design?

[Rubystars]

I've got some good experience doing just that, but I don't know how your Christian friends would deal with me. I'm a little bit of an enigma. Some Christians think I'm going to hell because I accept certain scientific principles even though I definitely believe G-d had his creative Hand involved in every step.

I assume you are talking about intelligent design?

Well I think God is definitely intelligent and God designed, but I don't like the term "Intelligent Design".

It's associated with some real wackos that are trying to challenge the teaching of science in schools. It's a sort of "Stealth creationism" that says that God HAD to intervene in order to make things happen. Science is naturalistic and so trying to account for things in nature by referring to miraculous interventions is not scientific.

I believe that God guided evolution and influenced certain events that happened, such as mass extinctions that eventually led to a world we could live in. I think God did this by guiding natural processes that He had already created. I don't think there's direct evidence for God's intervention, but I do believe in it as a matter of faith. What "ID" people try to do is not rely on faith for belief in God but try to prove it somehow, and I don't think that's really possible, although there may be an inferred presence of God's Hand, there is no objective evidence of God.

I prefer the term "Theistic evolutionist" because the term "Intelligent Design" is attached to some really silly things.

[Confederate Kahanist]

Hanna, I don't think I would worry about average atheists and pagans.  I mean, if you like arguing with them on your own time, that's your business. 

But as I see it, we need to focus on opposing B. Hussein, so he doesn't ruin America more than he's already done.  We also need to fight against the Islamo terrorists, and their domestic apologists on the left here in the media, Hollyweird and academia. 

Oh I agree athiets and pagans are nothing compared to Quaranimals.  Choosing to fight pagans and atheists rather than quaranimals would be like choosing to stop on a bug than nuke a giant cockroach. 

[Rubystars]

Often times atheists and pagans are Ex-Christians who have a real hatred and animosity toward Christians. Not in every case, of course. There was this one pagan woman I talked to in a chat I used to go to who was a real sweetheart, but most of them for some reason have this thing against Christians in particular.
Also atheists usually had some experience with some really wacko Christians and it made them think all religious people were wacko so they sought atheism as a seemingly more logically sound position even though they're wrong.

[muman613]

I do not understand atheists at all. At this time in my life it seems so clear to me that Hashem has been so kind to me all my life. Even when I was far from him I know he was protecting me, giving me slack because he knew I would come back to him. This is the miracle of Teshuva, the Jewish super-concept of repentance, and Hashem has promised it to each and every Jew. I honestly can say that I see miracles each and every day. I say several blessings on all the goodness and beauty which I see around me. Even the ugly and the bad I say blessings on, such as the dead animals I see every day as I drive to work. It is sad to think people live in a world without a loving father. I told my mother that without my faith I would certainly have fallen into a deep pit due to the challenges in my life six years ago. I was saved from the pit by a strong hand and a mighty arm, he saved me from depression and going down the path of drugs and craziness. Instead I found holy people doing kiruv at the synagogue which is down the street from me. I separated from the bad people and started to study Torah. As sure as the sun rises my life turned around in a matter of eight months. I had lost a job in 2002 and went without work till August 2003, eight months after joining an Orthodox minyan. I don't believe material possessions are the true blessing, but Hashem does provide what you need. My material blessings increased speedily. I am able to sustain a man who would be homeless if not for my charity. Charity is called Tzedakkah in hebrew, which is also the word for Righteousness. A Tzadik is a righteous man. Doing Mitzvot for a Jew should be like breathing air. I have been so joyous for the last six years doing all the holiday related mitzvot. I seek to beautify the mitzvahs as a true Chassid should.

I just want to say that those who don't have Emmunah {Faith} are missing out on a very human nature. We are made in Hashems image and it is up to us to make use of our G-dly potential. We are different from animals and we are capable of understanding and performing the miracles that Hashem provided through his holy mitzvot.

 

[Rubystars]

Hannah I hope that the list I sent you of common questions to avoid and the Web page with more info on it will help.

[briann]

I've got some good experience doing just that, but I don't know how your Christian friends would deal with me. I'm a little bit of an enigma. Some Christians think I'm going to hell because I accept certain scientific principles even though I definitely believe G-d had his creative Hand involved in every step.

I assume you are talking about intelligent design?

Well I think G-d is definitely intelligent and G-d designed, but I don't like the term "Intelligent Design".

It's associated with some real wackos that are trying to challenge the teaching of science in schools. It's a sort of "Stealth creationism" that says that G-d HAD to intervene in order to make things happen. Science is naturalistic and so trying to account for things in nature by referring to miraculous interventions is not scientific.

I believe that G-d guided evolution and influenced certain events that happened, such as mass extinctions that eventually led to a world we could live in. I think G-d did this by guiding natural processes that He had already created. I don't think there's direct evidence for G-d's intervention, but I do believe in it as a matter of faith. What "ID" people try to do is not rely on faith for belief in G-d but try to prove it somehow, and I don't think that's really possible, although there may be an inferred presence of G-d's Hand, there is no objective evidence of G-d.

I prefer the term "Theistic evolutionist" because the term "Intelligent Design" is attached to some really silly things.

What is the difference between 'Theistic evolution' and 'Intelligent Design'?    Why would you have the word 'Theistic' there? 
What is the difference between evolution and theistic evolution?

[muman613]

Just one more note on this topic...

I was reading this afternoon from "Lights along the way" a commentary on Mesilat Yesharim and I was reading the section on Gemilut Chessed. Here is what Chabads site says about it:

Torah & Gemilut Chassadim

The Biblical and Rabbinical writings abound with references to the significance, need, and redeeming qualities of this mitzvah. For Gemilut Chassadim is the very foundation-stone and pillar of the universe1. Without social justice and morality, the righteousness and compassion signified by the concept of Gemilut Chassadim, there can be no society; humanity cannot exist2.

Our Sages note that the beginning, middle, and end of the Torah deal with Gemilut Chassadim3. Thus whoever says that he cares for nothing but Torah, to the exclusion of Gemilut Chassadim, he has not even Torah, as it is written: "Learn them and be careful to perform them" (Deuteronomy 5:1)4. For the study of Torah is meaningful only when it leads to an actual observance of the mitzvot5. By the same token, "an am ha'aretz, a person who knows not the Torah, cannot be a chassid (a pious person)," i.e., one who performs chessed6. When ignorant of the teachings of the Torah one cannot possibly act in the manner that the Torah requires7. It is the Torah that determines which deeds are regarded as acts of Gemilut Chassadim, and lends them their sacred character of being a mitzvah.

Torah and Gemilut Chassadim are inseparable one from another. That is why we find them usually coupled in the teachings of the Sages8. Thus it was taught: "If Israel would consider the words of the Torah that was given to them, no nation or kingdom would have dominion over them. And what does (the Torah) say to them? Take upon you the yoke of the Kingdom of Heaven to excel one another in the fear of Heaven, and to conduct yourselves, one to another, with acts of loving-kindness9."

[muman613]

<snip>

What is the difference between 'Theistic evolution' and 'Intelligent Design'?    Why would you have the word 'Theistic' there? 
What is the difference between evolution and theistic evolution?

I would assume theistic evolution would be an evolutionary system which is guided by the Creator to its ultimate purpose.

This is basically the idea of Judaism also. But we don't necessarily take the Genesis story as literally. We can allow for questions about what the nature of days are and look at Gan Eden through a mystical lens as allegory for what went on in Eves head. I have heard many interesting Midrashes about Genesis and I am satisfied that it is a divine story. But I will not argue about strict literalist interpretation. I believe that regardless of what evolution says now, it will contradict itself eventually. It may be that we share a common ancestor and it is Hashem himself.

[Rubystars]

What is the difference between 'Theistic evolution' and 'Intelligent Design'? 

Theistic evolution is belief that God created and designed intelligently by working through natural processes such as biological evolution. Intelligent design is less continuous, it thinks God stepped in and intervened at different points.

For example Hugh Ross, an old earth creationist, and also an intelligent design advocate, thinks there are a lot of what appear to be transitional whales because God kept coming in and creating new whale species.

I think there are transitional whales because they were transitional, but God was involved in guiding their development.

Why would you have the word 'Theistic' there? 

Theism is a belief in God. Atheism means without belief in God. They're opposites. the "A" means without and theism means belief in God, so atheism means without belief in God.

When someone says Theistic evolution it means they're someone  who accepts evolution but believes in God.

I definitely believe in God, so I'm theistic.

What is the difference between evolution and theistic evolution?

Evolutionist just means people accept evolution but it doesn't say what their religious beliefs or the lack thereof is. I like the term theistic evolutionist because it shows that I believe in God, but Christian evolutionist is also a good term because I believe in Christian teachings.

[Rubystars]

This is basically the idea of Judaism also. But we don't necessarily take the Genesis story as literally. We can allow for questions about what the nature of days are and look at Gan Eden through a mystical lens as allegory for what went on in Eves head. I have heard many interesting Midrashes about Genesis and I am satisfied that it is a divine story. But I will not argue about strict literalist interpretation. I believe that regardless of what evolution says now, it will contradict itself eventually. It may be that we share a common ancestor and it is Hashem himself.

A lot of Jewish people have told me they accept evolution and a lot of them have told me that they believe in a literal 6 day creation.

Either way God's in control.

[muman613]

I have heard this explanation about the Kabbalistic idea that Hashem created worlds before this world of creation. He destroyed all the prior worlds before bringing humans into the creation.

Here is a discussion on that topic:
http://www.hashkafah.com/Square-Creation-5767-Years-Midrashim-Kabballah-t39732.html&pid=856978&mode=threaded

It's been bothering me for a while and I'm wondering how people make the concordance...

R'Israel Lipschitz explained that we find dinosaurs and mammoths because the world has gone through many eras or cycles of history, which all lasted tens of thousands of years based on Kabbalah. The Netziv concluded that dinosaurs were the remnants of previously destroyed worlds. Rabbeinu Behaye said that the universe was billion of years old based on Kabbalah too. R'Isaac of Akko himself said based on calculations from Kabbalah that the Universe was 15.3B years old, which is pretty much what scientists claim the Universe is. There are many examples like this. There are also various Midrashim which talk about many worlds being created and destroyed or the first week of Creation lasting for a very, very long time (and not 24 hours).

It seems to me that most people around me say "The Universe is 5767 years old", but when presented such information the reactions are diverse and often not very satisfying examples of mental gymnastics. So, how do you square comments like this with a literal view of the Earth being 5767 years old? It's one thing to reject the often shaky "findings" of G-dless scientists, but really esteemed Kabbalists and Midrashim?

[Rubystars]

Actually Muman I think if you stepped into previous time periods before major mammal life forms that you would consider it to be a completely different world. Some periods of time didn't even have air that humans could breathe so they couldn't have been around at those times.

Imagine a world where the most sophisticated form of life is something like this:

[muman613]

Actually Muman I think if you stepped into previous time periods before major mammal life forms that you would consider it to be a completely different world. Some periods of time didn't even have air that humans could breathe so they couldn't have been around at those times.

Imagine a world where the most sophisticated form of life is something like this:

Looks like the Aquarium we have at work...

 

[Rubystars]

You guys must have a really cool aquarium. I like watching fish.