The Haredim are getting ready to bust out!

[muman613]

Saduceees were never Haredi/Hassidic, in fact they were the 180 opposite of Haredism. In fact, modern Caraites Jews are philosophical descendants of Ssaduccess. Why would you say that communist Jews were Haredi when they were not? You are making too many broad strokes. I think that most of haredi/hassidic Jews are doing a great disservice to Israel and to Judaism. The sooner they'll leave their cults, the better.

I really don't appreciate your denigrating Chassidic Judaism... This is my lineage and there are many great Torah giants who were Chassids. I can name so many Gedolim from the Chassidic camp including the Bal Shem Tov, Rabbi Nachman, and the Lubavitcher Rebbe... You cannot condemn all of Chassidus like this!

I am ashamed to have read this here... And during the beginning of the nine days..

I am sorry that you are offended. The Chassidic Judaism was an important part of Jewish self-preservation while we were in Galut. I think it is an unfortunate anachronism now and is a perversion of Judaism as I see it.

It is unfair because Many Breslovers are now in EY and studying Torah and teaching... Also the Lubavitchers, despite maintaining a strong presence in the exile, always have supported aliyah to Israel. I don't know what you mean a 'perversion' of Judaism? What is perverted about Chassidus? Have you studied Mesilat Yesharim and learned what it means to be a Chassid? I think it is perverse to level such an accusation at all of Chassidic judaism. I do not attack other forms of Jewish belief because we are taught that all forms of Jewish belief, including Ashkenazim, Sefaradim, and all other forms, are just as Jewish as my beliefs. We each have our own minhagim {customs} but they are all from Hashem...

http://www.breslev.co.il/default.aspx?language=english
http://www.ou.org/about/judaism/rabbis/breslov.htm

[Spectator]

I think Manch understands the word "Chassid" as a physically weak, coward person who is weirdly dressed and full of superstitions.
At least some writers portrayed "Chassids" as such.

Actually, there were really some such people in galut in Jewish shtetles. Some of them were wearing traditional Chassidic clothes, hence the wrong association.

In fact, Chassid is the type of Orthodox Jew whose service to G-d is mainly expressed through emotions, as opposed to so-called "Litvaks" ("Lithuanians") whose main "weapon" is logical analysis used in Talmud study. Both ways are valid and kosher and it's up to a person to decide which one is more appropriate to him.

[Manch]

Saduceees were never Haredi/Hassidic, in fact they were the 180 opposite of Haredism. In fact, modern Caraites Jews are philosophical descendants of Ssaduccess. Why would you say that communist Jews were Haredi when they were not? You are making too many broad strokes. I think that most of haredi/hassidic Jews are doing a great disservice to Israel and to Judaism. The sooner they'll leave their cults, the better.

I really don't appreciate your denigrating Chassidic Judaism... This is my lineage and there are many great Torah giants who were Chassids. I can name so many Gedolim from the Chassidic camp including the Bal Shem Tov, Rabbi Nachman, and the Lubavitcher Rebbe... You cannot condemn all of Chassidus like this!

I am ashamed to have read this here... And during the beginning of the nine days..

I am sorry that you are offended. The Chassidic Judaism was an important part of Jewish self-preservation while we were in Galut. I think it is an unfortunate anachronism now and is a perversion of Judaism as I see it.

It is unfair because Many Breslovers are now in EY and studying Torah and teaching... Also the Lubavitchers, despite maintaining a strong presence in the exile, always have supported aliyah to Israel. I don't know what you mean a 'perversion' of Judaism? What is perverted about Chassidus? Have you studied Mesilat Yesharim and learned what it means to be a Chassid? I think it is perverse to level such an accusation at all of Chassidic judaism. I do not attack other forms of Jewish belief because we are taught that all forms of Jewish belief, including Ashkenazim, Sefaradim, and all other forms, are just as Jewish as my beliefs. We each have our own minhagim {customs} but they are all from Hashem...

Like I said Muman, I respect Lubavitches, my rebbe is Lubavitch, but I am not overly impressed with them. I don't know much about Breslovs, but I think they are both nice people, again, these two sects I respect and love. But I absolutely detest Satmars and other anti-Zionist sickos. I've read Tanya and didn't appreciate it, perhaps for the lack of knowledge on my part. I think that Chassidism is an unfortunate occurrence in Jewish people that has nothing to do with Judaism of HaRav Kahane, King David, King Solomon, King Ahab, King Hezzekiah, etc. What do you think or what did Rebbe think of Caraite Judaism? Do you consider Caraites a part of Jewish people? BTW, I don't mean the tartars of Crymea, but true Caraites.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Saduceees were never Haredi/Hassidic, in fact they were the 180 opposite of Haredism. In fact, modern Caraites Jews are philosophical descendants of Ssaduccess. Why would you say that communist Jews were Haredi when they were not? You are making too many broad strokes. I think that most of haredi/hassidic Jews are doing a great disservice to Israel and to Judaism. The sooner they'll leave their cults, the better.

I really don't appreciate your denigrating Chassidic Judaism... This is my lineage and there are many great Torah giants who were Chassids. I can name so many Gedolim from the Chassidic camp including the Bal Shem Tov, Rabbi Nachman, and the Lubavitcher Rebbe... You cannot condemn all of Chassidus like this!

I am ashamed to have read this here... And during the beginning of the nine days..

I am sorry that you are offended. The Chassidic Judaism was an important part of Jewish self-preservation while we were in Galut. I think it is an unfortunate anachronism now and is a perversion of Judaism as I see it.

It is unfair because Many Breslovers are now in EY and studying Torah and teaching... Also the Lubavitchers, despite maintaining a strong presence in the exile, always have supported aliyah to Israel. I don't know what you mean a 'perversion' of Judaism? What is perverted about Chassidus? Have you studied Mesilat Yesharim and learned what it means to be a Chassid? I think it is perverse to level such an accusation at all of Chassidic judaism. I do not attack other forms of Jewish belief because we are taught that all forms of Jewish belief, including Ashkenazim, Sefaradim, and all other forms, are just as Jewish as my beliefs. We each have our own minhagim {customs} but they are all from Hashem...

Like I said Muman, I respect Lubavitches, my rebbe is Lubavitch, but I am not overly impressed with them. I don't know much about Breslovs, but I think they are both nice people, again, these two sects I respect and love. But I absolutely detest Satmars and other anti-Zionist sickos. I've read Tanya and didn't appreciate it, perhaps for the lack of knowledge on my part. I think that Chassidism is an unfortunate occurrence in Jewish people that has nothing to do with Judaism of HaRav Kahane, King David, King Solomon, King Ahab, King Hezzekiah, etc. What do you think or what did Rebbe think of Caraite Judaism? Do you consider Caraites a part of Jewish people? BTW, I don't mean the tartars of Crymea, but true Caraites.

Not to really get into this discussion but....

What do you think or what did Rebbe think of Caraite Judaism? Do you consider Caraites a part of Jewish people?

Rabbi Kahane didn't.   (Or if he did I'd be completely shocked).  But it is clear that Rabbi Kahane was a rabbinical Orthodox Jew.

[Yochai]

The only person who should criticize a Chossid is one who performs mitzvas as fervently as they do.

[muman613]

The only person who should criticize a Chossid is one who performs mitzvas as fervently as they do.

I understand what you are saying but I think they were referring to the term Chassidic, from the Chassidic sects of Judaism. To me, the term Chossid is more generic and does mean any Jew who goes beyond the letter of the law. This was the origin of calling Chassidic Judaism this name.

http://www.chassidus.net/

Chassidism: (a) The movement within Judaism founded by Rabbi Israel Baal Shem Tov (1698-1760), stressing service of G-d through the mystical in addition to the legalistic dimension of Judaism, the power of joy, love of G-d and one's fellow, emotional involvement in prayer, finding G-dliness in every aspect of one's existence, and the elevation of the material universe; (b) the teachings and philosophy of this movement; see also Chabad

[galileerat]

Zahal has found that the Nahal Haredi soldiers are so much more motivated and disciplined than even the knitted-kippa Hesder ones, let alone the average demotivated, semi-zombified Israeli soldier, that they are forming a second Nahal Haredi batallion.

Haredim are found to be very good at computers.

The Haredim of Zaka are much better and more conscientious medical orderlies and ambulance crews than your average Arab Christian Magen David Adom ones.

Indeed given the burgeoning Haredi numbers, the chilloni and knitted- kippot Jews will be nearly extinct by 2025, thus forcing the Israeli educational institutions and universities to cater for and to raise a new generation of Haredi doctors, dentists, lawyers, surgeons, opticians etc.

What is needed is a Lubavitcher rebbe/Samson Raphael Hirsch/R.Kahane/Moshiach type "Torah im Derech Eretz" figure to lead and galvanize all that Haredi potential.

[Spectator]

Nahal Haredi soldiers are indeed highly motivated but why do you say they are "so much more motivated and disiciplined than the knitted-kippa Hesder ones"? Both of them are very good soldiers and patriots of the Land of Israel, I don't think it's proper to argue who is better.
There are also many good secular soldiers who are not any worse than Haredi and Dati Leumi (knitted kipas).

 

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Nahal Haredi soldiers are indeed highly motivated but why do you say they are "so much more motivated and disiciplined than the knitted-kippa Hesder ones"? Both of them are very good soldiers and patriots of the Land of Israel, I don't think it's proper to argue who is better.
There are also many good secular soldiers who are not any worse than Haredi and Dati Leumi (knitted kipas).

 

Yes I have to agree with you.   Galilee likes to speak in sweeping terms (albeit anecdotally), but I find his pro-haredi love-fest somewhat nauseating.   Yeah many haredim are good people, but there are plenty of good people who aren't haredi too.   Get off the high horse.

"the chilloni and knitted- kippot Jews will be nearly extinct by 2025, thus forcing the Israeli educational institutions and universities to cater for and to raise a new generation of Haredi doctors, dentists, lawyers, surgeons, opticians etc.

This is an absolute joke.   You don't honestly believe this do you galilee?   If you do, I must inform you that it is completely false.    Knitted-kipot Jews will be nearly extinct ?   Are you kidding me?    When you speak about demographics you really should try to take into account..... demographics.

The "knitted-kippot" are a rising sector that have come to fill many institutions as professionals - lawyers, doctors, dentists, in the army ranks, etc  in great numbers like never before.   What, they're going to disappear after someone waves a magic wand?  LOL.


And no one will have to cater to anything until the haredi so-called 'leaders' decide that haredim should work like normal people in society.   Until that comes from the leadership, the vast majority will continue to hang on in squalor by "just learning" (so-called bitachon).  And as the financial pressures mount (because indeed they are rising, due to the demographics economic decline and other factors) on these young haredi couples/families who will feel forced to not work because a. the leadership says it's "second-class" to do so and their community looks at them as second class for doing so and b. they haven't been properly educated in order to do so, they will resort to desperate measures to make ends meet unfortunately.       And thus deal, NJ fiascos in the making ....   

[galileerat]

I meant this breed of "knitted-kippa" becoming extinct!


Not this breed!

[muman613]

Shalom KWRBT & Gallileerat,

I ask you only one thing... Please do not continue the Sinat Chinam which I feel has been demonstrated here. What is the purpose to speak Lashon Hara against either Haredim or National Religious? Does it help us when we sow conflict between Chabad and Mizrachi? I do not think that it is good for the nation of Israel to continue such machlokes.

I love haredim, and I love Chabad, and I love Litvish, and I love Sephardim. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. I think that we can achieve more together than we can when we continue to spread the Sinat Chinam.

Don't we yearn for the Third Temple? Don't we learn that every generation in which the Temple is not rebuilt is guilty of the same sin that it was destroyed for?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Shalom KWRBT & Gallileerat,

I ask you only one thing... Please do not continue the Sinat Chinam which I feel has been demonstrated here. What is the purpose to speak Lashon Hara against either Haredim or National Religious? Does it help us when we sow conflict between Chabad and Mizrachi? I do not think that it is good for the nation of Israel to continue such machlokes.

I love haredim, and I love Chabad, and I love Litvish, and I love Sefaradim. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. I think that we can achieve more together than we can when we continue to spread the Sinat Chinam.

Don't we yearn for the Third Temple? Don't we learn that every generation in which the Temple is not rebuilt is guilty of the same sin that it was destroyed for?

I don't believe I have spoken lashon hara.  I sympathize with haredi families who are forced into scenarios of overwhelming (sometimes insurmountable, where they are forced to live off of hand-outs or dependent on others) financial pressure.  It is a faulty system that puts them in such a precarious situation.   And a system against the principles of the Torah which encourages Jews to work in the other 6 days a week.   Is it lashon hara to criticize homosexuality which goes against the Torah?   No.  And it is also not lashon hara to criticize a disfunctional system that makes haredim suffer.

Look at "haredi" Jews in America.  Those who identify as haredi and don't consider themselves as "modern" or "MO."  They work.  They get enough education so that they can keep at least half decent jobs and provide for their families.  Many of them have great jobs and do exceptionally well in their education.   The adult full-time learning is much rarer, except in breakoff sect communities like the Satmar.  This is not the case in Israel, and it's a system imposed from the top down.    I of course have nothing against haredim, I love them in fact.   But what is done to their society is an injustice if you ask me.

And about America we can see that how these breakoff sect communities provide for entire populations only learning is not sustainable ethically.  Without elaborating further, you hopefully catch my drift.    And we see also that the 'full time learning' and 'kollel craze' is catching on in America only because it is so widespread in Israel.  Look at the older generation of frum Jews.   They work/ worked.

The cost of yeshiva education for children in the US is immense.   They really have no choice but to work.  And that is normal.

[Debbie Shafer]

Keep putting the truth and knowledge out there, we don't know how many souls are actually waking up!