How common are partial-birth abortions?

[RationalThought110]

Are they usually due to medical reasons?

[genteelgentile]

There is absolutely NO medical reason to have a partial birth abortion!!!!! NONE!!!!!!!!  It is just a reason to sell body parts, and so-called medical research.  A partial-birth abortion is a procedure where a baby is almost born, just a matter of inches before a baby is completely out of the womb.  SICK!!  If a woman does not want to have a baby, and is considering an abortion, why would she wait until right before delivery???

[cosmokramer]

If the mothers life is in danger then the baby can be aborted. I think R" Moshe Feinstein did a whole article on this.

[dawntreader]

I don't care what the reason is...UNLESS a woman's life is in physical danger..I.E. if the mother is going to DIE because the baby is being born, there is NO reason for abortion.

America uses it as birth control because the baby or "Fetus" is an "inconvenient truth" the baby's mother does not wish to deal with.

One should think that the mother should have dealt with the "inconvenience of abstinence" if she wished to avoid pregnancy and the "inconvenience" of progeny.

[Trumpeldor]

I don't care what the reason is...UNLESS a woman's life is in physical danger..I.E. if the mother is going to DIE because the baby is being born, there is NO reason for abortion.

America uses it as birth control because the baby or "Fetus" is an "inconvenient truth" the baby's mother does not wish to deal with.

One should think that the mother should have dealt with the "inconvenience of abstinence" if she wished to avoid pregnancy and the "inconvenience" of progeny.

What if the baby is going to be born with Down Syndrome or some horrific neural ailment?

[jdl4ever]

In my opinion, you can't kill a baby even if it will be born with a horrible defect and only live a short time.  The only acceptable situation to do an abortion is in an ectopic pregnancy or in pre ecclampsia or ecclampsia since the mother will die if the baby is not aborted or delivered.  If it can be delivered alive, then go do that without doing an abortion.  An abdominal pregnancy (very rare) in my opinion is questionable since it is possible for the mother to live and  have a healthy child  and has happened (my professor witnessed this) so the mother should be monitored in the hospital for such a pregnancy in my opinion.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "...What if the baby is going to be born with Down Syndrome or some horrific neural ailment?..."

It doesn't matter.

The life is sacred, unless it threatens the mother's life.

If your "logic" disagrees, go tell Stephen Hawkings how much better off the world would be had he been killed in the womb.

Once the gap is breached, in that man decides "which kind of life shall man allow to be born; which kind of life is unacceptable and must be ended", the path to Holocaust has been mapped.

The inertia which follows the acceptance of such "man plays G-d" scenarious, leads directly to the crematoria of Auschwitz.

Do you actually believe that the condition of the world in which we find ourselves this very day, is not the direct result both of society's acceptance of abortion, together with society's acceptance of The State's right to "pull the plug" on comatose hospital patients?

The Next Holocaust is here, now..., short of G-d's direct intervention, all of us on the planet will very soon be consumed by it.

[Trumpeldor]

Re:  "...What if the baby is going to be born with Down Syndrome or some horrific neural ailment?..."

It doesn't matter.

The life is sacred, unless it threatens the mother's life.

If your "logic" disagrees, go tell Stephen Hawkings how much better off the world would be had he been killed in the womb.

Once the gap is breached, in that man decides "which kind of life shall man allow to be born; which kind of life is unacceptable and must be ended", the path to Holocaust has been mapped.

The inertia which follows the acceptance of such "man plays G-d" scenarious, leads directly to the crematoria of Auschwitz.

Do you actually believe that the condition of the world in which we find ourselves this very day, is not the direct result both of society's acceptance of abortion, together with society's acceptance of The State's right to "pull the plug" on comatose hospital patients?

The Next Holocaust is here, now..., short of G-d's direct intervention, all of us on the planet will very soon be consumed by it.

What would you do if G-d forbid(!) your baby was predicted to be born with this condition? It is a very difficult question and while I do not question your moral fiber, I do question what you and your wife to-be, whom you will love with all your heart, would do in such a scenario. It is not black, and white, as you portray it.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "...What would you do if G-d forbid(!) your baby was predicted to be born with this condition?..."

How about if the baby is born perfectly normal, after a perfect pregnancy, and at age two develops a completely debilitating and incurable illness?

Do you then kill your child because of the expense of maintaining their life?

Do you then kill your child because "you want to spare the child the suffering of being abnormal"?

Do you then kill your child because "no defects allowed"?

When Dave Duke becomes President, and declares "all genetic defectives" must be eliminated from society, and rounds up and murders all Jews, then isn't he 100% correct in doing so?  After all...they're a problem "for the community".  When Hitler did round up and murder all cripples, birth defective children, mental retards, and Jews, he was absolutely 100% correct.  You see....those problem people cost Germany a lot of money.  Not to mention wasted lots of good health workers who should have been assisting the building of healthy Aryan stock.  Not only that, but if allowed to live, the "bad genetic types" reproduce and spread the bad genetic matter right into the population; weakening the entire nation!

[dawntreader]

Whoa, Massuh....

Don't you think you ought to clarify your statements so people don't think you are advocating what Hitler did? I think you were being sarcastic, but others might not get it.

[Trumpeldor]

How about if the baby is born perfectly normal, after a perfect pregnancy, and at age two develops a completely debilitating and incurable illness?

In the scenario you just described, obviously you will have to devote your life to helping your child. There's no way around it.

However, there is a big difference between the situation I described and this one. To me, a 2 year-old is human whereas a 13-week fetus is not. Then again, I am not a scientist.

[ftf]

Massuh, I'm with you entirely, if we allow abortion, where does it end?

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Trumpeldor, we believe human life is sacred at all times, starting from conception. Basic genetic science proved a hundred years ago that the very first moment a conceptus (zygote or fertilized egg) exists, it is a 100% genetically distinct being that has all of the coding and parts of a complete specimen of whatever animal it is. That isn't some ethics lesson... it's elementary biology!

For the record, it does not matter how common partial-birth slaughter is. No partial-birth abortion ban does not contain an exemption to save the life of the mother. That is an ABSOLUTE LIE being sold by the baby-murder establishment that runs both parties and the entire American media and cultural establishment. 

Furthermore, the notion that abortion would be okay if the fetus has deformities is straight out of the Reich. How would you like it if somebody decided YOU do not deserve to live because a genetic test supposedly showed you'd grow up to be obese, have a low I.Q., have a high risk for cancer, etc.? This is eugenics, plain and simple. Nobody has the right to murder human life for any reason, and I most certainly would NOT want my wife to murder a retarded or otherwise abnormal fetus under any circumstances. That would be our child for heaven's sake.

That said, as I hope (and pray that the Lord sees fit to so grant) to only adopt children, I will never have to deal with this, hopefully... 

[MassuhDGoodName]

"...if we allow abortion, where does it end?..."

Try this scenario...

State of the art genetics allows for cloning, identifying families of individuals who carry certain genetic predispositions.

Here's what's coming:

Soon, all computerized ID cards will carry the owner's complete life record including DNA analysis, etc... .

The "health care industry" will soon have analysed every single individual in the country, and drawn up dossiers on everyone based on "risk" potential.

Expectant parents who register as "suspect" will be offered the ultimatum:  either abort the baby, or have your entire familys' insurance cancelled.

All embryos in their mothers' wombs will soon be examined by "specialists" looking for any possible gene sequences indicating a "risk" for developing virtually any disease or problem; even if it is not expected to develop until very late in life.

In the coming socialist world of "single payer" insurance, "universal coverage", etc., all that will matter is "how much are you costing "the community"?

If an individual requires medical care outside of an occasional routine exam, they will be told that they "are damaging our perfect system", and their insurance and "right to health care" will be immediately cancelled by the State.

In addition, the technology will soon present the ability to clone any and all human organs, as replacements for worn out or damaged ones.

Surgery as we have known it, will be a thing for the history books.  Instead, most aging or damaged organs will be regenerated through the new miracles of modern genetic science.

Result:  The "health care professionals", "associated health-care industries", and "The State", are all going to take a good look around at all the billions of humans now living in overpopulation.  They will set quotas allowing only the currently wealthy individuals capable of affording organ & limb regeneration to live as full citizens.  All others will be completely "cut off" from all rights as human beings.  Some will be actually enslaved, cloned, & mass produced so that they can be murdered & have their organs harvested for use by the rich elites.

Even further:  Because the ability to clone life without sexual reproduction will soon exist, and because pre-natal care and childbirth place a financial burden on "the community", sex will be complete outlawed for all except the elite rich few able and willing to pay a tremendous license fee for that luxury.  Holders of a sex license will be forced to be either sterilized or injected with long lasting birth control drug devices.

Cloned slaves will function in all servile positions; everything from housecare to manufacturing will be the domain of the clones; some of whom will be genetically engineered to be true androids.

"I've seen the future; and it's murder."...Leonard Cohen

[Imerica]

Last year, I made the unfortunate decision to have an abortion. I've given birth to three girls who were born premature due to me having Pre-ecclampsia, which is a disease that hits mostly African American women in pregnancy. They were all born between 4 and 6 weeks premature and were all low birthweight. They were also in NICU for a long time. Two actually have developmental delays because of the severity of their interaction with the sickness in utero. As for me, my body doesn't respond well to pregnancy with this sickness. My complications were, excessive swelling of the feet and legs, EXTREMELY high blood pressure, (which caused a seizure with my first child), inability to walk, inability to physically take care of myself, my children or my other responsibilities. It was agonizing.

We didn't plan to have another child after our 2 year old was born because of the eminent return of the pre-e...so I used a method of birth control that worked so well in the past  (for 4 years) that I trusted it. Needless to say, the method (the Patch) failed.

I am pro choice, and was pro choice before I had my first child. I always said thought that I wouldn't' get one myself, until I had to. I can't see myself standing in judgment of another woman for making that decision because its very personal, and very agonizing. Its not something I'll repeat. Its not something I'm jumping for joy over, but I'm glad that the choice was there for me. I might not be here to help raise my other girls.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Was your life distinctly in danger?

I mean this in no critical way at all, but I think you and your husband should perhaps look into a vasectomy, to avoid this horrible potential consequence from ever happening again. Why did you continue to have kids after you suffered such horrific consequences with the first?

Sidenote: Blacks are 13% of the U.S. population but constitute 37% of abortions.

[Imerica]

Was your life distinctly in danger?

I mean this in no critical way at all, but I think you and your husband should perhaps look into a vasectomy, to avoid this horrible potential consequence from ever happening again. Why did you continue to have kids after you suffered such horrific consequences with the first?

Sidenote: Blacks are 13% of the U.S. population but constitute 37% of abortions.

Did you not read my symptoms? Pre ecclampsia causes a significant rise in blood pressure, sperratic weight changes (I gained at least 10 lbs a week for months because of the excess water retention.) Pre e does put the life of the mom and baby in danger. *My children were born premature*. I didn't have any help around the house (while my husband was at work) taking care of my older kids (who were 7 and 9 when I was pregnant with my third daughter). I couldn't get up to do simple things like , go into the kitchen to prepare dinner, get them up for school, walk down the stairs or up the stairs to even use the bathroom. You'd have to walk in my shoes to understand where I'm coming from or where I've been.

He's going to get a vas before he leaves for Iraq. However like I said, I used a birth control method that didn't steer me wrong for 4 years. When I tried it again, it failed. So it wasn't like I was NOT on birth control when we conceived the last time.

I conceived after my first child because I was told that Pre ecclampsia would only happen in one of my pregnancies. I guess I'm just one of the unlucky few who happened to get it 3 times. My first two children are 22 months apart but my third came 7 years after my second child was born. I didn't think it would show up, yet again after 7 years of not conceiving a child...and it did.

As for the percentage you brought up, that has no baring on what I went through. That 37% isn't representative of what I went through. Just like the 37% of the black women who did have an abortion, did it for their own reasons. That's why I don't' stand in judgment of them or anyone whose ever experienced having an abortion. Its not fun.

[leo]

>I am pro choice, and was pro choice before I had my first child. I always said thought that I wouldn't' get one myself, until I had to. I can't see myself standing in judgment of another woman for making that decision because its very personal, and very agonizing. Its not something I'll repeat. Its not something I'm jumping for joy over, but I'm glad that the choice was there for me. I might not be here to help raise my other girls.

I see. So the fetus doesn't have any choices. Chop up the fetus because of confused women. Suck out the brain as they do in partial birth abortion. Only the pregnent mother should have choices. G-d help us. 

Unless it is a threat to the women's life there is no excuse to have an abortion. The only time there may be some leniancy is in the first 40 days of the pregnency. Do you know how many women have health problem BECAUSE of abortions. Many doctors who do abortions are not the best doctors. Do you know it increases the risk of certain cancers having abortions. Why do you assume that abortion is so helathy. Do you know how many women are brainwashed to having abortions. Do you know how evil the women who started planned parenthood is who try to teach girls at 8 or 9 years old about abortions.

[Imerica]

>I am pro choice, and was pro choice before I had my first child. I always said thought that I wouldn't' get one myself, until I had to. I can't see myself standing in judgment of another woman for making that decision because its very personal, and very agonizing. Its not something I'll repeat. Its not something I'm jumping for joy over, but I'm glad that the choice was there for me. I might not be here to help raise my other girls.

I see. So the fetus doesn't have any choices. Chop up the fetus because of confused women. Suck out the brain as they do in partial birth abortion. Only the pregnent mother should have choices. G-d help us. 

Unless it is a threat to the women's life there is no excuse to have an abortion. The only time there may be some leniancy is in the first 40 days of the pregnency. Do you know how many women have health problem BECAUSE of abortions. Many doctors who do abortions are not the best doctors. Do you know it increases the risk of certain cancers having abortions. Why do you assume that abortion is so helathy. Do you know how many women are brainwashed to having abortions. Do you know how evil the women who started planned parenthood is who try to teach girls at 8 or 9 years old about abortions.

No one was saying that. This is the problem I continue to have with people who misread my posts. I was saying that I can't control the lives of other women and I won't try. My life is my life, my experiences are my experiences, my hardships are mine alone.

Who said abortions are healthy? You're going off on a tagent.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Imerica, if your life was truly in imminent danger, we do not hold anything against you. Only you know if that was the case.

In any event, we oppose all abortions, for any reason, besides to save the woman's life.

[jdl4ever]

If she suffered pre ecclampsia early in the pregnancy then her life was probably in imminent danger in my opinion.  If she suffered ecclampsia which is pre ecclampsia plus seizures then her life definitely was in imminent danger.  You were careless since you should be using an intrauterine birth control device instead since the pill or the patch is not the most effective way of birth control since many forget to put it on and you knew that you shouldn't get pregnant again so you should have been double as careful and used barrier protection as well as the patch at the very minimum.  So I can't understand how you could be so careless if you had pre ecclampsia and ecclampsia before. 

Anyways, I was born 2 months premature and I have no problems (in fact, I have a very high IQ).

[genteelgentile]

Well, whatever the case is, Imerica, we appreciate that you shared your story with us.  It gives us all something to think about...

[Imerica]

I wasn't careless, jdl. This is exactly what's wrong with our country now. People prejudge you without knowing the entire story. I gave it to you and you read what you wanted to read.
I didn't forget to put the patch on, I had it on for 3 weeks before we even concieved. I also gave background on that as well. I used the patch for 4 years without getting pregnant once. Then, when my youngest child at the time turned 7, I found out I was pregnant with our 3rd child. I didn't know that pre-e and ecclampsia would catch up with me again. I know women and of situations where women have only had pre e once. I happened to be that unlucky person who would have it everytime I'd become pregnant.

And who are you to tell me what I 'should have' done? That's not why I shared this story here.

And I'm glad you are okay since you were 2 months premature... however that's not EVERYONE's situation. Yours is only anecdotal.

[RationalThought110]

There is absolutely NO medical reason to have a partial birth abortion!!!!! NONE!!!!!!!!  It is just a reason to sell body parts, and so-called medical research.  A partial-birth abortion is a procedure where a baby is almost born, just a matter of inches before a baby is completely out of the womb.  SICK!!  If a woman does not want to have a baby, and is considering an abortion, why would she wait until right before delivery???

At that point, the woman should give the baby up for adoption. 

[RationalThought110]

How about if the baby is born perfectly normal, after a perfect pregnancy, and at age two develops a completely debilitating and incurable illness?

In the scenario you just described, obviously you will have to devote your life to helping your child. There's no way around it.

However, there is a big difference between the situation I described and this one. To me, a 2 year-old is human whereas a 13-week fetus is not. Then again, I am not a scientist.

Judaism doesn't equate a fetus to being equal to human life.  Consequently, liberal Jews use this as an excuse to promote abortions.  Just because a fetus and a human aren't viewed as equivalent, Judaism is still against abortion.