Melamed backing down?

[wonga66]

Now that his parnossah is threatened, it looks like Melamed is backing down
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1260930884131&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Rav Kahane would never backdown on his principles.

R.Kahane was fortunate in having generous US benefactors, & was never dependent on the Israeli government for monies and who would thereby pressure him, like poor Melamed.

Melamed's ability to put the chicken on his shabbos family table each week is directly dependent on gloating Erev Rav like Barak, and unless he's a gilgul of a Biblical warrior, as R.Kahane was, he'll be eating humble pie.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

                                                           בס"ד

What is wrong with you? are you even Jewish? are you a dude or a gal?

[wonga66]

You underestimate the Erev Rav.

If Melamed's call for "insubordination" really took hold in Zahal, he would quickly be 'taken off the scene', one way or another.

The Erev Rav would jus' love a bloody confrontation, so that they can close down the right-wing yeshivahs and even shut down the entire settler movement. To achieve this, they are not averse to sending in disguised agent provacateurs, or bribing/threatening/brainwashing/drugging heretofore good guys, as the "Meraglim" footage on Youtube shows.

Sharon would have loved just one of our boys in Gush Katif to have opened fire on the Yasamniks and Yamasniks in 2005, thereby giving him a handle to send in his tanks and helicopters and literally take out all our youth. It goes that deep!

The Erev Rav of today are consciously or unconsciously playing out their meta-historical role that have had had since the Exodus from Egypt: to undermine True Torah (what we call "Kahanism"), to thwart Jewish possession of the True Heartland of Eretz Yisrael, and to keep separate the two Moshiachs, as the Vilna Gaon writes in his Kol Hator, and as quoted by Rav Kahane in his "The Jewish Idea".

And the closer we get to the Geulah and their ultimate demise, the more vicious and desperate they will get - "You ain't seen nuffin yet".........!

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

בס''ד

Nonsense. The Erev Rav are evil traitors, but the conspiracy theories that you and Barry Chamish promote are ridiculous. The Erev Rav would not try to murder HaRav Melamed chas vechalila because to do so is too risky. The vast majority of Israeli Jews would not support the murder of rabbis. And Amona proved that violent confrontations are bad for the Erev Rav because most secular Israelis do not have the stomach for such violence between Jews.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

The Erev Rav would jus' love a bloody confrontation, 

Oh no they wouldn't.

What they would really love is if we keep backing down and keep surrendering to them and if the traitors of yesha council and others keep refusing to do what's necessary.   THAT is what they would love.   A bloody confrontation is their worst nightmare.   And a bloody confrontation will be their worst nightmare, just like it was for the British.

so that they can close down the right-wing yeshivahs

If they tried to "close down" yeshivas (how?   How is that even possible?  They wouldn't dare do this.   I don't see a single yeshiva that they've shut down).... If they even tried this, they would truly spark a civil war.   And in that case, they are finished.   

and even shut down the entire settler movement.

They are already actively trying and doing this!  And what enables them to?  When there is no resistance and no backbone amongst the so-called leaders of the settlers to stick it to the govt and give them a run for their money.  If they stand up to the govt strong enough, they will back down like they back down to everyone (arabs included) because they have no choice but to back down.    A strong enough resistance to compel concession by the govt involves very serious means.

To achieve this, they are not averse to sending in disguised agent provacateurs, or bribing/threatening/brainwashing/drugging heretofore good guys, as the "Meraglim" footage on Youtube shows.   

Yes, Meraglim shows that they are desperate to AVOID a true conflict.  THAT is why they bribe and cajole and blackmail and infiltrate the yesha council and the leadership.   Because they wish to neuter the resistance.     Because they are afraid for what will happen if they don't!    Didn't you view the part of the video where the police indicate that a strong resistance in one place will undermine the entire operation?   They were testing the waters there, and once that was dispersed (with aid of the traitors), they felt they could carry out the rest with ease.

Sharon would have loved just one of our boys in Gush Katif to have opened fire on the Yasamniks and Yamasniks in 2005, thereby giving him a handle to send in his tanks and helicopters and literally take out all our youth. It goes that deep! 

This is fantasy.

The Erev Rav of today are consciously or unconsciously playing out their meta-historical role that have had had since the Exodus from Egypt: to undermine True Torah (what we call "Kahanism"), to thwart Jewish possession of the True Heartland of Eretz Yisrael, and to keep separate the two Moshiachs, as the Vilna Gaon writes in his Kol Hator, and as quoted by Rav Kahane in his "The Jewish Idea". 

And?  So what?  Couch it in whatever terms you want, mystical or otherwise, it is our duty to resist their evil, not to imagine them indestructable and therefore neuter ourselves before they even get the chance to infiltrate.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I think it is a shame that certain rabbis, including those on the "council" of the hesder yeshiva program are paid Israeli-govt employees and therefore act as agents of the state rather than what they should be: rabbis without achrayot who are committed to truth and the Torah above all else.    It seems that there is a strong faction of mamlachtiut within the leadership of the hesder program that is drowning out the other voices.   How did this mamlachtiut (state worship) heresy become so widespread and pervasive?

[wonga66]

Only men who are hungry, lean, mean and desperate can really revolt ie be prepared to physically lay their lives on the line, as in every revolution.

Most people in the West will not revolt, because..... there is just too much food: they are too obese to riot, their bellies are swollen, and they have satiated bank accounts!

The Jew, including the Israeli Jew, is in an even worse state, because in addition to being satiated, after 2000 years of golus the Jew is in a state of moyrah, and terrified of being physically injured: "The second skin of every Jew is fear!" (Anwar Sadat).

But there may yet be hope in achduss as per this report
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1135825.html

If the Erev Rav perceive they are losing control of Zahal, and their power is starting to become unzipped, including the media, taxation system, education system, judicial system etc, they are literally prepared to liquidate the State of Israel: "The State of Israel survives because of me; and if I want to, it will end because of me!" (Shimon Peres).http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/135056

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

because in addition to being satiated, after 2000 years of golus the Jew is in a state of moyrah, and terrified of being physically injured: "The second skin of every Jew is fear!" (Anwar Sadat).

That didn't stop David Raziel, Menachem Begin, and thousands of Jewish underground fighters/supporters in the 1930's-40's.  That did not stop even the Haganah who, in the most drastic circumstances that even they could not deny or wish away, united for a 10 month period in a united resistance with the Irgun and Lechi and fought against the British.

The galuth has ended.   It may be reassuring to you to give mystical explanations to rationalize inaction on the part of certain Jews, but that says nothing about what is possible or what is impossible.  If the Jews will it, it is no dream.   If people become resolved to actively resist in measures more practical than merely marching with signs and getting beaten by police, they can achieve great things just like we have in the past.    The only question is willingness.   Do not purvey this sheker that there is some mystical fairy-dust cloud that will spoil our plans and ruin us if we try anything daring.   On the contrary.   God will give our warriors help.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

                                                                    בס"ד

You underestimate the Erev Rav.

If Melamed's call for "insubordination" really took hold in Zahal, he would quickly be 'taken off the scene', one way or another.

The Erev Rav would jus' love a bloody confrontation, so that they can close down the right-wing yeshivahs and even shut down the entire settler movement. To achieve this, they are not averse to sending in disguised agent provacateurs, or bribing/threatening/brainwashing/drugging heretofore good guys, as the "Meraglim" footage on Youtube shows.

Sharon would have loved just one of our boys in Gush Katif to have opened fire on the Yasamniks and Yamasniks in 2005, thereby giving him a handle to send in his tanks and helicopters and literally take out all our youth. It goes that deep!

The Erev Rav of today are consciously or unconsciously playing out their meta-historical role that have had had since the Exodus from Egypt: to undermine True Torah (what we call "Kahanism"), to thwart Jewish possession of the True Heartland of Eretz Yisrael, and to keep separate the two Moshiachs, as the Vilna Gaon writes in his Kol Hator, and as quoted by Rav Kahane in his "The Jewish Idea".

And the closer we get to the Geulah and their ultimate demise, the more vicious and desperate they will get - "You ain't seen nuffin yet".........!

Not really, let's just sum it up by saying, that the vast majority of Jewish Israelis would never agree with Rabbis' murder (not talking about arrest or anything), it'd rise all religious groups  up and there'd be a Holocaust for Lefties.
Now what you've posted is not true --- Rav Melamed isn't gonna give up, that's just a fraud posted and published by the Leftie media.
What the Jews have done in Amona clearly proves that the Jewish youth would not stand quiet in front of the IDF. That was only the beginning of the revolution.

[wonga66]

The only daring thing that would achieve anything would pertain to the Mosques of Omar and Al Aksa, and no one except a non-Jew like Michael Rohan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Michael_Rohan
would be crazy enough or have the guts to even touch them!

Without worthy leadership, we're not going anywhere fast.

In the current atmosphere, RMK and RBZK would be jailed and the key thrown away. Chaim would also be immediately jailed for "hassatah and "gazanut"", and is not being allowed in to Israel at this time, b'chasdei Hashem  to preserve him, possibly for greater things: "The biggest enemy of the Jewish People is the Jewish State! In order for the People of Israel to survive, the State of Israel (ie the ideological foundations of the Medinat Yisrael as it is currently formulated) must be terminated!" (Professor Paul Eidelberg, Arutz 7 www.foundation1.org ).

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

                                                                  בס"ד

Actually I think that the only counter to the exile of so many Jews from Judea and Samaria is a rise from there right to the Temple Mount. It wouldn't be hard for the Jews to take over it, it'd be much harder to do so in other parts of Eastern Jerusalem.

I don't think resisting the army by force would accomplish anything.
We have 2 major fronts:
The public opinion (popularity of the Jewish idea among Jews) and finacing. The only way to take over the country is not running to the Knesset, they'd disqualify us; But rather creating a counter-elite to the rulling elite, based upon 5 major power points.

In the day Medinaht Israel will be destroyed G-D forbid, we're doomed.

[Secularbeliever]

Only men who are hungry, lean, mean and desperate can really revolt ie be prepared to physically lay their lives on the line, as in every revolution.

Most people in the West will not revolt, because..... there is just too much food: they are too obese to riot, their bellies are swollen, and they have satiated bank accounts!

The Jew, including the Israeli Jew, is in an even worse state, because in addition to being satiated, after 2000 years of golus the Jew is in a state of moyrah, and terrified of being physically injured: "The second skin of every Jew is fear!" (Anwar Sadat).

But there may yet be hope in achduss as per this report
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1135825.html

If the Erev Rav perceive they are losing control of Zahal, and their power is starting to become unzipped, including the media, taxation system, education system, judicial system etc, they are literally prepared to liquidate the State of Israel: "The State of Israel survives because of me; and if I want to, it will end because of me!" (Shimon Peres).http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/135056

Actually revolutions are typically led and peopled by elites.  All of the 19 911 hijackers were from families of at least reasonable means.  The same for the Russian Revolution.  No poverty among the Lenins, Trotskys, etc.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

The only daring thing that would achieve anything would pertain to the Mosques of Omar and Al Aksa,

Not true.  Just flat out, not true.

There are many many practical measures that can be taken.  Is there a willingness amongst enough people and is there a courage to act on the willingness.   Those are the real questions.    There is no question that many practical deeds can accomplish political goals.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Chaim... is not being allowed in to Israel at this time, b'chasdei Hashem  to preserve him, possibly for greater things:

 
Ludicrous.  We need Chaim in Israel now more than ever.   And only a Jew who expects that geula happens while watching from afar on the sidelines could possibly say that there is something "more important" to be done in the Diaspora in a critical time of need in Eretz Yisrael - in fact, those who remained in Bavel also had this attitude and it brought upon us so many sorrows.   But the fact of the matter is that geula will come not on the sidelines but in land of our forefathers.  Has God not made that clear to us by now?   Let us lose this foolhardy and dangerously mistaken attitude of embracing the galuth.   

"The biggest enemy of the Jewish People is the Jewish State! In order for the People of Israel to survive, the State of Israel (ie the ideological foundations of the Medinat Yisrael as it is currently formulated) must be terminated!" (Professor Paul Eidelberg, Arutz 7 www.foundation1.org ).

Hehehe, is Prof. Eidelberg 'daas Torah' for you now?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Only men who are hungry, lean, mean and desperate can really revolt ie be prepared to physically lay their lives on the line, as in every revolution.

Most people in the West will not revolt, because..... there is just too much food: they are too obese to riot, their bellies are swollen, and they have satiated bank accounts!

The Jew, including the Israeli Jew, is in an even worse state, because in addition to being satiated, after 2000 years of golus the Jew is in a state of moyrah, and terrified of being physically injured: "The second skin of every Jew is fear!" (Anwar Sadat).

But there may yet be hope in achduss as per this report
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1135825.html

If the Erev Rav perceive they are losing control of Zahal, and their power is starting to become unzipped, including the media, taxation system, education system, judicial system etc, they are literally prepared to liquidate the State of Israel: "The State of Israel survives because of me; and if I want to, it will end because of me!" (Shimon Peres).http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/135056

Actually revolutions are typically led and peopled by elites.  All of the 19 911 hijackers were from families of at least reasonable means.  The same for the Russian Revolution.  No poverty among the Lenins, Trotskys, etc.

You really should learn about the revolt against the british prior to the state of Israel being founded.... you know, the revolution that was done .... by our people.   Look at where those fighters came from and the means with which they resisted the world's biggest empire.

There are countless other examples, but I mention that one specifically because for a Jew to not be well-read on those events is tragic in my opinion.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Only men who are hungry, lean, mean and desperate can really revolt ie be prepared to physically lay their lives on the line, as in every revolution.

Most people in the West will not revolt, because..... there is just too much food: they are too obese to riot, their bellies are swollen, and they have satiated bank accounts!

The Jew, including the Israeli Jew, is in an even worse state, because in addition to being satiated, after 2000 years of golus the Jew is in a state of moyrah, and terrified of being physically injured: "The second skin of every Jew is fear!" (Anwar Sadat).

But there may yet be hope in achduss as per this report
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1135825.html

If the Erev Rav perceive they are losing control of Zahal, and their power is starting to become unzipped, including the media, taxation system, education system, judicial system etc, they are literally prepared to liquidate the State of Israel: "The State of Israel survives because of me; and if I want to, it will end because of me!" (Shimon Peres).http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/135056

Actually revolutions are typically led and peopled by elites.  All of the 19 911 hijackers were from families of at least reasonable means.  The same for the Russian Revolution.  No poverty among the Lenins, Trotskys, etc.

Also, I fail to see how 9/11 was a "revolution."

[muman613]

See the petition which many Rabbis signed in support of Rabbi Melamed. Please cease this Lashon Hara until the facts are made available.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

                                                                  בס"ד

Actually I think that the only counter to the exile of so many Jews from Judea and Samaria is a rise from there right to the Temple Mount. It wouldn't be hard for the Jews to take over it, it'd be much harder to do so in other parts of Eastern Jerusalem.  

That could be very groundbreaking, but I don't know that I would start with that.

I don't think resisting the army by force would accomplish anything.

We would not want a civil war either.   But if we succeed in forcing them to use solely the police force for expulsions and keep the IDF out of it, there will be much less ideological (theological) opposition to the idea of resisting the police force expulsions with credible threat and potentially violent measures.    IMO, the resistance never gets off the ground if it's against the IDF.  And that's because of opposition WITHIN the dati camp to opposing the IDF, even "nonviolently."    For this reason, I think datim refusing to serve will go a long way toward pushing the govt's hand.   If 50% of the combat soldiers are datim, they will miss that and they will not want a weaker army.
 

We have 2 major fronts:
The public opinion (popularity of the Jewish idea among Jews) and finacing. The only way to take over the country is not running to the Knesset, they'd disqualify us; But rather creating a counter-elite to the rulling elite, based upon 5 major power points.

Very good points.  And the 'Jewish idea' can be expressed in many formats.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

See the petition which many Rabbis signed in support of Rabbi Melamed. Please cease this Lashon Hara until the facts are made available.

I never made any lashon hara against Rabbi Melamed.

Please cease your accusations unless they are directed specifically against the actual offender.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/134977

This article and Rabbi Melamed's comments also contradict what seems to have been said in that petition.  Rabbi Melamed claims that he never encouraged protest within the IDF and actually in this article discourages the refusal of orders to expel Jews.   I give him credit for standing up to Barak's tyranny, but at the same time, how can he justify his encouragement to expel Jews if the tyrants ask for it?

[muman613]

See the petition which many Rabbis signed in support of Rabbi Melamed. Please cease this Lashon Hara until the facts are made available.

I never made any lashon hara against Rabbi Melamed.

Please cease your accusations unless they are directed specifically against the actual offender.

Im sorry if I was not more specific. Of course you were not saying anything negative about the Rabbi, but the original poster has made a number of accusations which are very serious. I will not continue with any accusations but I ask that we consider what we are saying. I have nothing but respect for Rabbi Melamed who must be experiencing a great deal of stress in these times.

 

[wonga66]

The Erev Rav (Mixed Multitude) are not "fairy dust": they exist. The Vilna Gaon says that the Erev Rav are a far worse enemy than Ishamel, Edom and even Amolek, and that the geulah can only occur with their defeat and physical removal from the corpus of the Am Yisrael. The Erev Rav are nominal Jews, but who have a totally different soul-root yichus. The Zohar says that there a 5 levels amongst them. Barak, who plans in mobilising most of standing Zahal against the settlers http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/135090
looks like he's turning out to be one of the worst
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/43561/Barak+Preparing+For+Major+Military+Operation+To+Halt+Settlement+Construction.html

The Erev Zeir (Mixed Minitude) are another category of foe: descendants of the Egyptian magicians who joined the Am Yisrael at the time of the Exodus. Orthodox Jews who believe in Hashem and keep are all the mitzvos, but who are prepared to cede parts of Eretz Yisrael to the Yishmaelim are said to their representatives in this generation ie a substantial chunk of the Haredi world.

We will see how today's "Union of Hesder Yeshivot" meeting today goes: whether they rally round R.Melamed, or fall out in internal bickering.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

You failed to address my criticism.   Erev rav are people.     They are against us, so what.   They are not indestructible.   With Hashem's help we can defeat them and defeat any of our enemies.  THAT is what you fail to comprehend.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

What I said was

"The galuth has ended.   It may be reassuring to you to give mystical explanations to rationalize inaction on the part of certain Jews, but that says nothing about what is possible or what is impossible." 

When you say that erev rav are impossible to defeat because they have some mystical force behind them, you are mistaken, and this leads only to a self-perpetuating philosophy of inaction and fear.   It is inaction and fear which gives strength to the erev rav and gives them a stronger grip on power they wish to hold over us.

I also said

" The only question is willingness.   Do not purvey this sheker that there is some mystical fairy-dust cloud that will spoil our plans and ruin us if we try anything daring.   On the contrary.   G-d will give our warriors help." 

Whether you want to call it fairy dust clouds, or mystical mojo, or call it the erev rav, it makes no difference what title it gets.  The problem, your problem, is when you ascribe invincibility to it.   Are you saying that the erev rav will spoil our plans automatically and destroy us if we try anything to undermine them?   Chas ve shalom.   Such thoughts are atrociously misguided.   They are fallible like all men, and like all men they are conquered by the human spirit embedded within the Torah outlook and engaged by one of true faith.   
May God give us strength.

[Spectator]

KWRBT, I am really sorry that you are spending so much time battling this wonga snake. I feel you are really wasting your effort, because wonga is not going to be rational. His goal is to sow anxiety, suspicion and despair among the national-religious Jews, and he will continue to do it until he is banned. There can be different motives for that. He is either:

1) Bored attention-seeking individual, or

2) leftist estabishment employee whose work is to present JTF as crazy fanatics who worship crazy australian but speak lashon hara about great Torah sage Rabbi Melamed (who is one of the few people in Israel who dares to follow Torah principles even if it leads to a direct conflict with the establishent)

3) Neturei-Karta follower whose main objective is to battle the State of Israel, the national-religious movement and its rabbis, starting from Rabbi Kook. An example of such idividual is "Yoel Elchonon" who wrote the ugly propaganda opus "Dat Ha-Tziyonut" (the religion of Zionism).
(btw it was realy sad to read it and see how a person claims to be G-d fearing, distorts facts and smear good Jews and their rabbis).

Anyways, regardless of his motives, wonga is doing a terrible thing: he attacks and defames the great rabbi Melamed while the latter is leading the resistance to the establishment's plan to use IDF soldiers in the evictions of the Jews from Judea and Samaria. This is a grave sin and lowlife snitch cowardly act.

I will be happy when he is banned forever from this forum and never allowed to come back.