Where did Chayim learn his Hebrew?

[wonga66]

For someone who hasn't been to Israel in decades, where did Chayim learn his pretty good Hebrew? (although it's very far from the "refined' old-school Biblical- type Hebrew of eg Menachem Begin)

For an Anglo, colloquial spoken fluent Hebrew can really only be acquired by living cheek and jowl for a whole year with Israelis and speaking only Hebrew with them, no English at all ie with Israelis who can't speak any English! This is generally only in Sefardi neighborhoods in Israel, on an all-Israeli kibbutz, or in an all-Israeli yeshivah. 

This is how R.Kahane mastered "street Hebrew" in the 60s, when he found that his Hebrew was so poor on his first visit to Israel.

Attending an Israeli government ulpan is worse than useless for learning spoken Hebrew!

Or did Chayim learn his Hebrew by kowtowing with the massive Israeli Sefard elements who came to New York in the 70s?

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

                                                                           בס"ד

For an Anglo, colloquial spoken fluent Hebrew can really only be acquired by living cheek and jowl for a whole year with Israelis and speaking only Hebrew with them, no English at all ie with Israelis who can't speak any English! This is generally only in Sefardi neighborhoods in Israel, on an all-Israeli kibbutz, or in an all-Israeli yeshivah. 

Do you even live in Israel?

[wonga66]

Of course. Where do you think I live? 'Palestine'?!

What's good is that Chayim constantly brings up the 8 keywords that really get the goat of native Sefardic Israeli Hebrew speakers and resonates with them: shchitut (corruption), stiyut (deviancy), ivut (distortion), rishut (wickedness), rashlanut (criminal negligence), tembelyut (stupidity), yehudon (Jew boy) and kushan (schvartzer)!

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

                                                                      בס"ד

Of course. Where do you think I live? 'Palestine'?!

Are you an Oleh Chadash?

And about your post --- BS. It's not that hard to learn Hebrew, especially when you learn it for years. Just ask Moshe92.

[wonga66]

To learn Hebrew is one thing. But to be able to master fluent grammatically correct coherent Hebrew and speak without pause, for an Anglo over 15, is almost impossible unless one lives with Israelis for a whole year and speaks only Hebrew with them.

With which Israelis did Chayim learn his Hebrew? Maybe from childhood from his mother?

Unless he's exceptionally intelligent! What is Chayim's IQ?

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

                                                             בס"ד

To learn Hebrew is one thing. But to be able to speak fluent grammatically correct spoken coherent Hebrew without pause, for an Anglo over 15, is almost impossible unless one lives with Israelis for a whole year and speaks only Hebrew with them.

With which Israelis did Chayim learn his Hebrew?

Unless he's exceptionally intelligent! What is his IQ?

My parents started learning Hebrew after the middle of their 20's. So what? They didn't even live with Israelis but rather Russian-descended Jews from Beit Shemesh (mostly Bukharim) right next to Arabs. It really depends on the person rather than on the age.
I've learnt Arabic and English in less than 2 years. They're a lot tougher than Hebrew and I never lived among English speakers (yet I did live among Arabic speakers). Moshe92 also kinda knows how to speak Hebrew, not flunetly (Chaim doesn't speak really fluently).

אל תהיה חצוף.

[wonga66]

Even though he knew a "Yeshivish loshon kodesh" of sorts (which is very different from the profane Strassen-Ivrit of the Israeli shuk), Libi Kahane relates of the great effort R.Kahane made in his 30s to master spoken rhetorical Hebrew, which he knew was absolutely was essential if he was to start a grass-roots from scratch political movement among Sefardic Jews.

With its tenses, binyanim, apocopatives, conjugations and genders, Hebrew is not at all easy to master for the thinking man who comes to it late. Hebrew is much more difficult than English, which is probably the easiest language to learn. Let alone getting the right accent. The Hebrew accent of most Anglos is painful. How the crook Flatto Sharon got in to the Knesset without knowing a word of Hebrew was a travesty!

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

                                                                             בס"ד

Even though he knew "Yeshivish Hebrew", Libi Kahane relates of the great effort R.Kahane made in his 30s to master spoken rhetorical Hebrew, which was essential if he was to start a grass-roots from scratch political movement among Sefardic Jews. With its tenses, binyanim, conjugations and genders, Hebrew is not at all easy to master for the thinking man. It is much more difficult than English, which is probably the easiest language to learn.

 

Since the Western culture generally and the American culture particularly is so widespread, it's really easy to learn basic English. But then again, that's no fluent, clear, rich English.
My parents speaks Hebrew just like Chaim, they reached to this level in about 5 years, how can you compare this joke of time to Chaim's long activity?

[wonga66]

In what years was Chayim actually living in Israel? Wiki doesn't say http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Vancier

An unthinkable alternative would be that his cellmate was an Israeli, of whom very many were in US slammers at that time, though unlike Chayim, for all the wrong reasons.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

                                                                   בס"ד

In what years was Chayim actually living in Israel? Wiki doesn't say http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Vancier

An unthinkable alternative would be that his cellmate was an Israeli, of whom very many were in US slammers at that time, though unlike Chayim, for all the wrong reasons.

And why would it be neccesary for Chaim to live in Israel in order to learn Hebrew?

[wonga66]

Chaim's Hebrew is considerably better than Mike Guzofsky's.

Listen to eg Chaim running down the Moldovian Lieberman 

A good basic spoken Hebrew like that could only be picked up from being among native Israelis, either in Israel or in the US.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

                                                                 בס"ד

Chaim's Hebrew is considerably better than Mike Guzofsky's.

Listen to eg Chaim running down the Moldovian Lieberman 

A good basic spoken Hebrew like that could only be picked up from being among native Israelis, either in Israel or in the US.

Yekutiel speaks better. Chaim has enough mistakes in this video btw. And I say it as a native Jewish Israeli.

[Moshe92]

                                                                 בס"ד

Chaim's Hebrew is considerably better than Mike Guzofsky's.

Listen to eg Chaim running down the Moldovian Lieberman 

A good basic spoken Hebrew like that could only be picked up from being among native Israelis, either in Israel or in the US.

Yekutiel speaks better. Chaim has enough mistakes in this video btw. And I say it as a native Jewish Israeli.

Here's a video of Guzofsky.



I don't think he speaks Hebrew better than Chaim does.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

In what years was Chayim actually living in Israel? Wiki doesn't say http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Vancier

An unthinkable alternative would be that his cellmate was an Israeli, of whom very many were in US slammers at that time, though unlike Chayim, for all the wrong reasons.

Why is that "unthinkable" ?

Anyway, Chaim has already said he studied Hebrew for a very long time on his own.   You CAN learn the language that way.  Living with people who speak it fluently (and/or only Hebrew) will speed the process and help it along, but who says you can't learn from books given enough time?

You asked when was Chaim in Israel, but he told us that when he arrived on his flight to make aliyah they threw him in jail and sent him back.   I had assumed that he had not been there before that?

[wonga66]

Was the photo of Chayim with R.Kahane taken in the US or Israel? In what year was it taken?

On what exact legal grounds, if any, do the Israelis have to refuse Chayim entry in to Israel as a tourist today?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Was the photo of Chayim with R.Kahane taken in the US or Israel? In what year was it taken?

On what exact legal grounds, if any, do the Israelis have to refuse Chayim entry in to Israel as a tourist today?

I'm not so sure that was Chaim in the picture.   He never confirmed (or denied) it, did he?

[Irish Zionist]

Was the photo of Chayim with R.Kahane taken in the US or Israel? In what year was it taken?

On what exact legal grounds, if any, do the Israelis have to refuse Chayim entry in to Israel as a tourist today?

I'm not so sure that was Chaim in the picture.   He never confirmed (or denied) it, did he?

No it wasn't. He said on last weeks ASK JTF.

[angryChineseKahanist]

What's Hebrew similar to??

[Moshe92]

What's Hebrew similar to??

What do you mean? Are you asking which languages are similar to Hebrew?

[angryChineseKahanist]

Yeah.
Like English and spanish are similar.
Chinese/japanese/korean are similar.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

                                                                  בס"ד

Arabic, Aramaic, Amharic, etc.

[angryChineseKahanist]

I'm out of luck. I'm not familliar with any of those.

[WestCoastJTF]

Yeah.
Like English and spanish are similar.
Chinese/japanese/korean are similar.

Saying "English and Spanish" are similar is really not true.

English is primarily descended from the German/Dutch family.  However, a lot of vocabulary comes from Romance languages (Latin, Italian, French, Spanish, Romanian, etc.)

[WestCoastJTF]

To learn Hebrew is one thing. But to be able to master fluent grammatically correct coherent Hebrew and speak without pause, for an Anglo over 15, is almost impossible unless one lives with Israelis for a whole year and speaks only Hebrew with them.

I don't think that's true.  I don't know about Hebrew specifically, but people have mastered difficult languages without living in the mother country.  It is certainly not easy, but one could become a near-native speaker simply through study and practice with skilled tutors/speakers.  Hebrew is not one of the easiest languages, but neither is it one of the most difficult.