Are you offended that i consider jews as white???

[christians4jews]

I always thought/considered jewish people as white. And only thought the idiot white supremicists considered jews as not pure white...but i hate them, they behave like blacks...

david swimmer, larry david, jerry springer etc are white...yet alot of the jews on here seperate themselves from whites..

So am i offending you if i refer to you and chaim etc as white???


cheers, btw sorry if this post caused offence..

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Where did this come from? Who was offended by you?

[rhayat1]

Unlike some people, I am not easily offended.  If you consider yourself "white", then you probably are white.  Nothing wrong with that.  As for me, I'm a few shades darker than white and I'm a "non-Gringo" according to my Hispanic co-workers - which means they consider me non-white.  Whatever.  Either way, I am pro-white in that I support the rights of whites to feel good about what they are, to congregate amongst themselves, to have their own neighborhoods, cities and countries (just like every other race on Earth).  But I am not a "white supremacist" because I do not consider whites to be supreme - though I'd much rather live in a white society than in a black one if I only had those two choices.

For the record, ancient Jews (of Roman times) apparently did NOT consider themselves white.  A lot has happened since then.

[New Yorker]

I'm a Sepharadic Jew, which means a Mediterranean Jew, ancestors most likely from Spain, I have blue eyes, and I'm white, too much sun and I get burnt, I consider myself white. So er, no offense.  

[christians4jews]

Where did this come from? Who was offended by you?

no, no one was offended by me...

it just sometimes chaim(for example) refers to jews and white seperately and then sometimes he refers to himself as white. Even though chaim etc is of jewish faith i consider him white.

ive offended myself if anything with this bizzare question..

[Rubystars]

I think some Jews are white, but many are not. I thought Jews had converts of all races, so obviously some are white.

[New Yorker]

I think we're mostly white. 

Some of us have a tan. 

[rhayat1]

"Said Ribbi Yishma'el... the Children of Yisrael are neither black like Ethiopians nor white like Germans; but in between like an Eshcroa' tree (a type of Ceder)."  Mishna Negha'im.

[Ze'ev]

Define White...

If by White you mean Caucasian, and/or having a lack of pigmentation in the skin, then the answer of course is that some Jews are and some aren't.

[mord]

Couldn't care i'm white so call me white

[New Yorker]

Couldn't care i'm white so call me white

I'm white, whitey, honky, crackah! 

[Ze'ev]

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I always thought/considered jewish people as white. And only thought the idiot white supremicists considered jews as not pure white...but i hate them, they behave like blacks...

david swimmer, larry david, jerry springer etc are white...yet alot of the jews on here seperate themselves from whites..

So am i offending you if i refer to you and chaim etc as white???


cheers, btw sorry if this post caused offence..

I don't really care either way.  You don't offend me.   The important thing is what a person considers himself.   IMO, Far worse than someone considering Jews white, or a European considering Jews "not white" or someone calling Jews "black" (ie black hebros) - worse than any of that is in my opinion when a Jew self-identifies as any of these terms or definitions.  IMO, A Jew must always see himself as a Jew first and foremost and no other ethnicity besides that.    The nation of Avraham, Yitzhak, Yaaqov...

[briann]

This is so absurd.  Judaism should'nt be about skin color.

Yes, most Jews are white.  BUT NOT ALL!!!  Some are black, some are brown, some are even yellow.  

And who cares anyway.  If someone is righteous, then who cares if they are white or brown or black.  

[rhayat1]

This is so absurd.  Judaism should'nt be about skin color.

Yes, most Jews are white.  BUT NOT ALL!!!  Some are black, some are brown, some are even yellow.  

And who cares anyway.  If someone is righteous, then who cares if they are white or brown or black.  

I think he was asking about Jews.  Not about Judaism.  There seems to be some confusion due to the fact that there is more than one definition of "Jew".  Any person can convert to Judaism and become a "Jew", but one cannot become an ethnic Jew by converting.  For that, he must be descended from Jews.  In the old days, this distinction was taken very seriously - to the point where R. Yehudha haLlewi, in haKkuzari, tells the king of the Khazars that though he may convert, he will always remain a second class citizen among real Jews.  Even Ribbi 'Aqiva, who was descended from converts, was not considered on the same level as true ethnic Jews.  Over the generations, as ethnic Jews became fewer, dispersed and lost their lines of lineage, those of mixed/convert background gained the upper hand.   No, ethnic Jews are not a race - but we are associated with the Middle East and we are, therefore, of Mediterranean type.  DNA studies have (reportedly) shown a strong genetic link between ethnic Jews in most of the world.  My own gut feeling is that if a person looks entirely Nordic in every respect - he's probably mostly Nordic.  If he looks entirely Negro, then he's probably Negro.

[muman613]

Remember this:

Moses Wife Tzipporah was a convert, Ruth the grandmother of King David was a convert.... Judaism has virtually always allowed converts... What is important is a honest and sincere conversion...

http://www.beingjewish.com/identity/kingdavidjew.html

Some argue that "there was no conversion process back then." I must wonder how they know this. They simply mean to say that they do not believe that the Laws of Judaism existed back then, and therefore it was okay to marry Gentile women. This entails ignoring the Torah's Commandment not to marry Gentiles.

Not only that, but the great people of Jewish history certainly did not consider it permitted to marry unconverted Gentiles.

Let's take Moses, for example. Moses was married to an Ethiopian woman, Zipporah. Yet when the soldiers brought back Gentile women from Midian, Moses got angry at them (Numbers 31:14-15). What was the difference? The difference is that Zipporah converted to Judaism.

How do we know that Zipporah converted? Because we know that she kept the Commandments. When Moses failed to circumcise his son because he was afraid that the traveling would kill him, what did Zipporah do? "Zipporah took a (sharp) rock and cut off the foreskin of her son..." (Exodus 4:25). Evidently, Zipporah was an observant Jew.

[Aces High]

Many Jews are fair skinned.  Maybe not as pale as Germans or Irish, but pretty close.  Many Jews are lighter than Italians for sure, especially Italians from Southern Italy.  I'm very fair skinned

[Ze'ev]

Many Jews are fair skinned.  Maybe not as pale as Germans or Irish, but pretty close.  Many Jews are lighter than Italians for sure, especially Italians from Southern Italy.  I'm very fair skinned

True.  I myself have very light skin, as well as very light brown (almost blond) hair and light blue eyes. 

Red hair also seems to be prevalent, much as it is among the Celts.  Wasn't King David himself known for having had red hair even?   

In any case, and as has been said; the reality is that Jews come in all colors, as do righteous Gentiles. The color of one's skin is unimportant in the scheme of things.

[The One and Only Mo]

Ani Lavan Meod Meod 

[Spectator]

I always thought/considered jewish people as white. And only thought the idiot white supremicists considered jews as not pure white...but i hate them, they behave like blacks...

david swimmer, larry david, jerry springer etc are white...yet alot of the jews on here seperate themselves from whites..

So am i offending you if i refer to you and chaim etc as white???


cheers, btw sorry if this post caused offence..

I don't really care either way.  You don't offend me.   The important thing is what a person considers himself.   IMO, Far worse than someone considering Jews white, or a European considering Jews "not white" or someone calling Jews "black" (ie black hebros) - worse than any of that is in my opinion when a Jew self-identifies as any of these terms or definitions.  IMO, A Jew must always see himself as a Jew first and foremost and no other ethnicity besides that.    The nation of Avraham, Yitzhak, Yaaqov...

I agree. According to Judaism, the skin color of a Jew is absolutely irrelevant. But it is not offensive when someone calls Jews white as long as he implies that being white is something positive or neutral 

[White Israelite]

I consider myself a white man with a tan. My dad was olive, when he wasn't in the sun, he was pale, when he was outside, he had a light to medium brown complexion. He was lucky because he never had to use sun tan lotion and neither do I, I don't burn.

Anyways, I have dark eyes, brown hair and a medium complexion skin tone. Some of my cousins are lighter than I am.

[Spectator]

I think he was asking about Jews.  Not about Judaism. There seems to be some confusion due to the fact that there is more than one definition of "Jew".

Wrong. A Jew is the one whose mother is Jewish or who has made true giyur (conversion). This is the ONLY true definition.

Any person can convert to Judaism and become a "Jew", but one cannot become an ethnic Jew by converting.  For that, he must be descended from Jews.

The one who converted to Judaism has become real Jew, without any quotation marks.  On the contrary, the concept "ethnic Jew" is misleading.

In the old days, this distinction was taken very seriously - to the point where R. Yehudha haLlewi, in haKkuzari, tells the king of the Khazars that though he may convert, he will always remain a second class citizen among real Jews.

Rabbi Yehuda HaLevi knew that the king of the Khazars wanted to convert all his people to Judaism, which is forbidden, and wanted to prevent it. Mass conversions are not welcome in Judaism becuase there is no chance that all people in such group sincerely believe that Judaism is the truth. They either seek some benefit or they are forced to do so, such motives make the conversion phony and invalid. Khazars didn't truly convert to Judaism, they didn't become Jews.

Even Ribbi 'Aqiva, who was descended from converts, was not considered on the same level as true ethnic Jews.

Of course there is such concept as Ancestral Merit ("Zechut Avot" in Hebrew), and a convert doesn't have it. But it has nothing to do with the definition of Jew. Moreover, Rabbi Akiva was a great Talmudic sage whose Halachic rulings "true ethnic Jews" follow until this day!

No, ethnic Jews are not a race - but we are associated with the Middle East and we are, therefore, of Mediterranean type.  DNA studies have (reportedly) shown a strong genetic link between ethnic Jews in most of the world.

Not DNA but unique Jewish soul defines Jew. And this soul is acquired only either by birth from Jewish mother or immediately after true conversion. And even the Ancestral Merit, which a convert doesn't posess, is purely spiritual concept. DNA is irrelevant.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

This is so absurd.  Judaism should'nt be about skin color.

Yes, most Jews are white.  BUT NOT ALL!!!  Some are black, some are brown, some are even yellow.  

And who cares anyway.  If someone is righteous, then who cares if they are white or brown or black.  

I think he was asking about Jews.  Not about Judaism.  There seems to be some confusion due to the fact that there is more than one definition of "Jew".  Any person can convert to Judaism and become a "Jew", but one cannot become an ethnic Jew by converting.  For that, he must be descended from Jews. 

This is simply not true.   The Rambam says explicitly a convert is now a son of Avraham (not in the biological sense, obviously, which is not relevant to Jewish identity).   That IS what Jewish "ethnicity" is defined by - Membership in the Jewish nation.   We don't have a concept of "racial" ethnicity.   A convert is fully a Jew - ethnically, religiously etc etc.

Even Ribbi 'Aqiva, who was descended from converts, was not considered on the same level as true ethnic Jews.   

Are you joking me?   All of the Oral Torah we currently employ utilizes the unique and innovative methodology of Rabbi Akiva and is based on him moreso than any other figure.   He was within the tradition that came before but introduced incredible new insights and innovation which catapulted the oral tradition to a whole new level.   That is precisely what the gemara means when it says all mishnayot are aleeba d' rabbi Akiva (according to Rabbi Akiva).

  My own gut feeling is that if a person looks entirely Nordic in every respect - he's probably mostly Nordic.  If he looks entirely Negro, then he's probably Negro.

This may be your opinion, and many people share your opinion, but there are some geneticists who believe that it would require very little intermarriage and very tiny conversion rates for a subpopulation to take on the exterior physical characteristics of the surrounding group over several centuries living in the same locale.   Thus, for Ashkenazi Jews to start looking "european" required very little interbreeding over many many generations.    Likewise in other places.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Rabbi Yehuda HaLevi knew that the king of the Khazars wanted to convert all his people to Judaism, which is forbidden, and wanted to prevent it. Mass conversions are not welcome in Judaism becuase there is no chance that all people in such group sincerely believe that Judaism is the truth. They either seek some benefit or they are forced to do so, such motives make the conversion phony and invalid.  Khazars didn't truly convert to Judaism, they didn't become Jews.   

While I agree with most of your quote here, historically speaking I don't think the part in bold is true.   It is apparent that the Khazar officials imported talmidei chachamim to spread rabbinic Judaism, and such Jews also were already a minority group prior to the conversion event.   This kingdom (post conversion) had correspondance with other talmidei chachamim in other areas.

[Spectator]

Rabbi Yehuda HaLevi knew that the king of the Khazars wanted to convert all his people to Judaism, which is forbidden, and wanted to prevent it. Mass conversions are not welcome in Judaism becuase there is no chance that all people in such group sincerely believe that Judaism is the truth. They either seek some benefit or they are forced to do so, such motives make the conversion phony and invalid.  Khazars didn't truly convert to Judaism, they didn't become Jews.   

While I agree with most of your quote here, historically speaking I don't think the part in bold is true.   It is apparent that the Khazar officials imported talmidei chachamim to spread rabbinic Judaism, and such Jews also were already a minority group prior to the conversion event.   This kingdom (post conversion) had correspondance with other talmidei chachamim in other areas.

Of course there were some Khazars who truly converted to Judaism, but I mean Khazars as people. The Khazarian people as a whole did not become Jewish.