Another Question

[Edward]

Can someone please tell me what's the difference between Conservative Jews and the Reform Jews?
 
Thanks in advance (-:

[Moshe92]

Conservative Judaism is slightly more "traditional" than Reform Judaism, but they are both assimilationist movements that advocate observing some mitzvot while ignoring others. Unfortunately, my family goes to a Conservative synagogue, and my parents sent me to a Conservative day school from first grade through eighth grade. It is mainly because I found Chaim and Rabbi Kahane that I no longer consider myself to be a "Conservative Jew."

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Historically speaking, conservative movement formed as a breakoff from Reform because while they agreed in principle with many radical positions reform adopted and their general anti/non-traditional approach, this group of Jews felt that reform took things too far, and they sought to create a more "conservative" version of the shrimp-eating, "new jerusalem in berlin" reform.   But they are also a non-halachic offshoot and not a branch of traditional Judaism.   They ended up becoming much like reform as they adopted  (openly) gay rabbi ordination, lay people deciding their policies instead of qualified experts/rabbis  etc   And they also deny Torah miSinai as being the word of Hashem.

[muman613]

Historically speaking, conservative movement formed as a breakoff from Reform because while they agreed in principle with many radical positions reform adopted and their general anti/non-traditional approach, this group of Jews felt that reform took things too far, and they sought to create a more "conservative" version of the shrimp-eating, "new jerusalem in berlin" reform.   But they are also a non-halachic offshoot and not a branch of traditional Judaism.   They ended up becoming much like reform as they adopted  (openly) gay rabbi ordination, lay people deciding their policies instead of qualified experts/rabbis  etc   And they also deny Torah miSinai as being the word of Hashem.

While I mostly agree with KWRBT on this topic I must say a good word about Conservative Jews... This is the Judaism which I grew up with. It was important to my parents to have the Bar Mitzvah, it was important to them that I learned that I was Jewish. I must thank my parents for making that choice, at least, because I do remember that they originally were going to place me in a reform synagogue. I told my mother and father that I greatly appreciate that they made that decision because only Hashem knows if there would have been any spark of Judaism left in me after being 15 years very far from the Derech of Judaism. When people say 'Off the Derech' they don't have any idea how far off the derech can be... But a Baal Teshuva should not discuss his past, and I will avoid the details. Needless to say I am blessed because I made teshuva seven years ago and turn away from the bad path. I have moved forward and upward and I must show Hakarat Hatov ( http://www.ou.org/index.php/ouradio/comment/2031/ ) which is appreciating the good...

Conservative Jews are well meaning and although they don't follow the mitzvot, they do have this idea that a mitzvah is a 'good deed'... So when my mother says she does a mitzvah by taking care of her sick friend, I know what she means. My mom does other 'mitzvahs' by helping people and giving charity. To her they are 'good deeds' and somewhat devoid of the meaning of mitzvah which some see as commandments, others as ways of connecting with Hashem...

So let me say that there may be hope for conservatives....

[JTFenthusiast2]

Kahanewasright,

If the Torah is not the word of G-d, then who, in their view is it the word of?  G-d, as interpreted by man?  

[JTFenthusiast2]

Historically speaking, conservative movement formed as a breakoff from Reform because while they agreed in principle with many radical positions reform adopted and their general anti/non-traditional approach, this group of Jews felt that reform took things too far, and they sought to create a more "conservative" version of the shrimp-eating, "new jerusalem in berlin" reform.   But they are also a non-halachic offshoot and not a branch of traditional Judaism.   They ended up becoming much like reform as they adopted  (openly) gay rabbi ordination, lay people deciding their policies instead of qualified experts/rabbis  etc   And they also deny Torah miSinai as being the word of Hashem.

While I mostly agree with KWRBT on this topic I must say a good word about Conservative Jews... This is the Judaism which I grew up with. It was important to my parents to have the Bar Mitzvah, it was important to them that I learned that I was Jewish. I must thank my parents for making that choice, at least, because I do remember that they originally were going to place me in a reform synagogue. I told my mother and father that I greatly appreciate that they made that decision because only Hashem knows if there would have been any spark of Judaism left in me after being 15 years very far from the Derech of Judaism. When people say 'Off the Derech' they don't have any idea how far off the derech can be... But a Baal Teshuva should not discuss his past, and I will avoid the details. Needless to say I am blessed because I made teshuva seven years ago and turn away from the bad path. I have moved forward and upward and I must show Hakarat Hatov which is appreciating the good...

Conservative Jews are well meaning and although they don't follow the mitzvot, they do have this idea that a mitzvah is a 'good deed'... So when my mother says she does a mitzvah by taking care of her sick friend, I know what she means. My mom does other 'mitzvahs' by helping people and giving charity. To here they are 'good deeds' and somewhat devoid of the meaning of mitzvah which some see as commandments, others as ways of connecting with Hashem...

So let me say that there may be hope for conservatives....

Muman,

What is Derech (the path?) ,  and Baal Teshuva?

[muman613]

Historically speaking, conservative movement formed as a breakoff from Reform because while they agreed in principle with many radical positions reform adopted and their general anti/non-traditional approach, this group of Jews felt that reform took things too far, and they sought to create a more "conservative" version of the shrimp-eating, "new jerusalem in berlin" reform.   But they are also a non-halachic offshoot and not a branch of traditional Judaism.   They ended up becoming much like reform as they adopted  (openly) gay rabbi ordination, lay people deciding their policies instead of qualified experts/rabbis  etc   And they also deny Torah miSinai as being the word of Hashem.

While I mostly agree with KWRBT on this topic I must say a good word about Conservative Jews... This is the Judaism which I grew up with. It was important to my parents to have the Bar Mitzvah, it was important to them that I learned that I was Jewish. I must thank my parents for making that choice, at least, because I do remember that they originally were going to place me in a reform synagogue. I told my mother and father that I greatly appreciate that they made that decision because only Hashem knows if there would have been any spark of Judaism left in me after being 15 years very far from the Derech of Judaism. When people say 'Off the Derech' they don't have any idea how far off the derech can be... But a Baal Teshuva should not discuss his past, and I will avoid the details. Needless to say I am blessed because I made teshuva seven years ago and turn away from the bad path. I have moved forward and upward and I must show Hakarat Hatov which is appreciating the good...

Conservative Jews are well meaning and although they don't follow the mitzvot, they do have this idea that a mitzvah is a 'good deed'... So when my mother says she does a mitzvah by taking care of her sick friend, I know what she means. My mom does other 'mitzvahs' by helping people and giving charity. To here they are 'good deeds' and somewhat devoid of the meaning of mitzvah which some see as commandments, others as ways of connecting with Hashem...

So let me say that there may be hope for conservatives....

Muman,

What is Derech (the path?) ,  and Baal Teshuva?

Hi JTFEnthusiast,

Yes, Derech is hebrew for the path... When Rabbis talk about todays generation being 'off the derech' they are meaning that the kids are not learning Torah and keeping the commandments. The path of Judaism is supposed to be learning and living the Torah. We believe {Orthodox Jews} that the Torah is a blueprint or a manual for living the human life according to the Creators will.

And Baal Teshuva means literally a Master of Return. Teshuva roughly translated means repentance. Hashem has promised the Jewish people that no matter how far we have fallen that he will return to us if only we take steps to return to him. This comes straight from the Torah.

A Jew who at some point in his life decides that his life is out of control can start to take steps to return his soul to the higher levels it was meant to be. We all have a purpose in life, and if we attain what we can attain in this world we are gauranteed a good place in the world to come.

http://ohr.edu/yhiy/article.php/1172

Teshuvah, repentance, seems illogical. True, a sinner must change his ways to avoid further punishment. Yet by what logic can a previous sin be forgiven? Why shouldn’t he be punished for the bad he has done?

One might answer that Hashem wipes away our sins because He is all-merciful. This answer, however, doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. For, consider the fact that a person can also erase his good deeds if he sincerely regrets them. As Rambam states: "Whoever regrets the mitzvot he has fulfilled...and says to himself: ‘What did I get out of doing them? I wish I hadn’t done them,’ loses all of them, and no merit is remembered in his favor." (Hilchot Teshuvah 3:3)

The Rambam’s insight shows that Hashem’s "forgetting" our past is not merely a question of His mercy, for the concept can work against us as well. How, then, does teshuva work?

When G-d judges a person, He doesn’t simply weigh his sins and mitzvot on a scale. Rather, Hashem judges the individual himself. What is he? What does he represent? Does he embody good or evil?

True, a person’s essential being depends on his past actions; but he is actually judged for the gestalt of his being, the whole and not the parts.

When a person truly regrets his past, he is stating that those actions do not embody him. When being judged for what he represents, those sins that he regrets — or those mitzvot — are not factors in judgment, since they do not represent him anymore.

This understanding is apparent in the following statement of the Rambam: "When a person’s sins and merits are weighed, the first sin that he sinned is not counted, nor the second. But the third and on [are counted]. If it is found that his sins — from the third and on — are greater than his merits, then the [first] two sins are included and he is punished for them all." (Hilchot Teshuvah 3:5)

Why should Hashem "ignore" the first two sins? Bearing in mind our explanation of teshuvah, the reason is quite clear: It is a principle of Jewish law that for an action to establish a status quo (chazakah), it must occur three times. Thus, the first two times a person sins he had not indicated that he is a person who embodies that particular transgression. He simply gave in to his evil inclination. Only when he transgresses three times can one say that he represents the sin itself, and can thus be judged for his embodiment of the evil, not for one particular sin.

Among the ways to repentance, the Rambam mentions changing one’s name, "as if to say: I am another, and am not the same person who did those deeds." (Rambam, Hilchot Teshuvah 2:4)

How can one change his name and claim to be someone else? According to our explanation, this is exactly the point of teshuvah. One must resolve that those moments spent in sin do not represent him. He is a different person, represented by mitzvot.

[Moshe92]

So let me say that there may be hope for conservatives....

Yes, but only if exposed to outside opinions other than the nonsense that Conservative Jewish leaders promote.

[JTFenthusiast2]

Wow Muman,

You write very clearly and explain things far far better than most.  I read what you wrote and quoted once and am going over it now in my brain.   Thank you.

I just finished reading a story about the Baal Shem Tov, so this would be a Master of?

[muman613]

Wow Muman,

You write very clearly and explain things far far better than most.  I read what you wrote and quoted once and am going over it now in my brain.   Thank you.

I just finished reading a story about the Baal Shem Tov, so this would be a Master of?

Baal Shem Tov = Master of the Good Name

[JTFenthusiast2]

Thank you Muman!  When I graduated from school a friend bought me the book, The Jewish Spirit: a Celebration in Stories and Art.   I have another excellent book that I have read and re-read many times, No star too Beautiful: an anthology of Yiddish stories from 1382 to the present, trans. by Joachim Neugroschel.  Both of these books have wonderful stories in them, some about the Baal Shem Tov

[muman613]

http://www.inner.org/glossary/gloss_b.htm

Ba'al Shem Tov ("Master of the Good Name [of God]"):
    Ba'al Shem Tov was the title given to Rabbi Yisrael ben Eliezer (1698-1760), the founder of Chassidic movement.
     
    God's "good Name" refers in particular to the Name Akvah whose numerical value is equal to 17, tov ("good"). This Name is associated in Kabbalah with the Divine power to "unite heaven and earth" (for it first appears in the opening verse of Creation as the initial letters of et hashamayim v'et ha'aretz-- "the heavens and the earth"), the power to connect the spiritual realm to its physical counterpart and thereby heal all physical ailments.
     
    In Divine service, this corresponds to the fundamental ideal of Chassidism, the ability to simultaneously "exist" on two planes of reality--the spiritual and the physical.

[Zelhar]

I think the difference is 50 years delay. Everything that the reforms sanction, becomes a valid "tradition" for the conservatives after 50 years (or less).

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Kahanewasright,

If the Torah is not the word of G-d, then who, in their view is it the word of?  G-d, as interpreted by man?  

As far as I know, the most rightwing stance they will take is that the prophets (including Moshe) were "inspired," but not that it is actually prophecy in the traditional sense as in a direct communication and the actual word of Hashem.   On the more leftwing side of conservative though, they may not even couch it in these terms, and they often simply agree with the atheist/secular/scholarly conception about how it was put together etc.   Needless to say, this is heretical.

[Edward]

Wow, this is interesting... and I thought that the Conservative Jews were the most ''conservative''... I guess I still have a lot of things to learn and explore.. Unfortunately I came from a family that is neither Reform nor Conservative.. My parents are both atheists, and I never got traditional Jewish education... I always needed wanted to add something different to my life, something spiritual.. so I visited the Church in our town (my family is the only Jewish family in our little town)......
So thanks to my sweet girlfriend, Liz, I started learning more about our wonderful tradition and heritage, and thanks to this wonderful forum and you guys, I learn more and more! Thanks a lot, people! And God bless! :-)

[Edward]

I will ask you some more questions here later... Thanks again for your help. That's sure appreciated!

[JTFenthusiast2]

Kahane,

Thank you for explaining that and helping to educate those of us who plainly lack information about our heritage.  

[Edward]

You know, I studied the Quran... And the funny thing is, that I actually know their deadly false religion better than our religion. absurd!