Junk science continues to try to debunk religion - Heaven exists in your head!!!

[muman613]

These pseudo-scientists are so determined to prove that heaven doesn't exists... They claim there is no Hashem and no reward in the afterlife... They compare the death process to being on psycho drugs...

http://www.newsweek.com/id/235462

[Rubystars]

Just because supernatural type hallucinations can be induced in someone's mind doesn't mean that there isn't a real supernatural phenomena.

[Raulmarrio2000]

That's silly. Even if the experiences of people who were near death could be explained as hallucinations, it doesn't exclude the possibilty of real after life. Religious beliefs in Heaven are not based on that experiences.

[White Israelite]

I did not think afterlife was part of the Jewish people until added later in Talmud, I always thought King Solmon mentioned we would rest in the dust when we die and resurrected when the time comes?

[muman613]

I did not think afterlife was part of the Jewish people until added later in Talmud, I always thought King Solmon mentioned we would rest in the dust when we die and resurrected when the time comes?

I did not learn that... Actually belief in the afterlife is mentioned in Torah several places...

http://www.jewfaq.org/olamhaba.htm

Traditional Judaism firmly believes that death is not the end of human existence. However, because Judaism is primarily focused on life here and now rather than on the afterlife, Judaism does not have much dogma about the afterlife, and leaves a great deal of room for personal opinion. It is possible for an Orthodox Jew to believe that the souls of the righteous dead go to a place similar to the Christian heaven, or that they are reincarnated through many lifetimes, or that they simply wait until the coming of the messiah, when they will be resurrected. Likewise, Orthodox Jews can believe that the souls of the wicked are tormented by demons of their own creation, or that wicked souls are simply destroyed at death, ceasing to exist.
Biblical References to the Afterlife

Some scholars claim that belief in the afterlife is a teaching that developed late in Jewish history. It is true that the Torah emphasizes immediate, concrete, physical rewards and punishments rather than abstract future ones. See, for example, Lev. 26:3-9 and Deut. 11:13-15. However, there is clear evidence in the Torah of belief in existence after death. The Torah indicates in several places that the righteous will be reunited with their loved ones after death, while the wicked will be excluded from this reunion.

The Torah speaks of several noteworthy people being "gathered to their people." See, for example, Gen. 25:8 (Abraham), 25:17 (Ishmael), 35:29 (Isaac), 49:33 (Jacob), Deut. 32:50 (Moses and Aaron) II Kings 22:20 (King Josiah). This gathering is described as a separate event from the physical death of the body or the burial.

Certain sins are punished by the sinner being "cut off from his people." See, for example, Gen. 17:14 and Ex. 31:14. This punishment is referred to as kareit (kah-REHYT) (literally, "cutting off," but usually translated as "spiritual excision"), and it means that the soul loses its portion in the World to Come.

Later portions of the Tanakh speak more clearly of life after death and the World to Come. See Dan. 12:2, Neh. 9:5.
Resurrection and Reincarnation

Belief in the eventual resurrection of the dead is a fundamental belief of traditional Judaism. It was a belief that distinguished the Pharisees (intellectual ancestors of Rabbinical Judaism) from the Sadducees. The Sadducees rejected the concept, because it is not explicitly mentioned in the Torah. The Pharisees found the concept implied in certain verses.

Belief in resurrection of the dead is one of Rambam's 13 Principles of Faith. The second blessing of the Shemoneh Esrei prayer, which is recited three times daily, contains several references to resurrection. (Note: the Reform movement, which apparently rejects this belief, has rewritten the second blessing accordingly).

The resurrection of the dead will occur in the messianic age, a time referred to in Hebrew as the Olam Ha-Ba, the World to Come, but that term is also used to refer to the spiritual afterlife. When the messiah comes to initiate the perfect world of peace and prosperity, the righteous dead will be brought back to life and given the opportunity to experience the perfected world that their righteousness helped to create. The wicked dead will not be resurrected.

There are some mystical schools of thought that believe resurrection is not a one-time event, but is an ongoing process. The souls of the righteous are reborn in to continue the ongoing process of tikkun olam, mending of the world. Some sources indicate that reincarnation is a routine process, while others indicate that it only occurs in unusual circumstances, where the soul left unfinished business behind. Belief in reincarnation is also one way to explain the traditional Jewish belief that every Jewish soul in history was present at Sinai and agreed to the covenant with G-d. (Another explanation: that the soul exists before the body, and these unborn souls were present in some form at Sinai). Belief in reincarnation is commonly held by many Chasidic sects, as well as some other mystically-inclined Jews. See, for example Reincarnation Stories from Chasidic Tradition.
Olam Ha-Ba: The World to Come

The spiritual afterlife is referred to in Hebrew as Olam Ha-Ba (oh-LAHM hah-BAH), the World to Come, although this term is also used to refer to the messianic age. The Olam Ha-Ba is another, higher state of being.

In the Mishnah, one rabbi says, "This world is like a lobby before the Olam Ha-Ba. Prepare yourself in the lobby so that you may enter the banquet hall." Similarly, the Talmud says, "This world is like the eve of Shabbat, and the Olam Ha-Ba is like Shabbat. He who prepares on the eve of Shabbat will have food to eat on Shabbat." We prepare ourselves for the Olam Ha-Ba through Torah study and good deeds.

The Talmud states that all Israel has a share in the Olam Ha-Ba. However, not all "shares" are equal. A particularly righteous person will have a greater share in the Olam Ha-Ba than the average person. In addition, a person can lose his share through wicked actions. There are many statements in the Talmud that a particular mitzvah will guarantee a person a place in the Olam Ha-Ba, or that a particular sin will lose a person's share in the Olam Ha-Ba, but these are generally regarded as hyperbole, excessive expressions of approval or disapproval.

Some people look at these teachings and deduce that Jews try to "earn our way into Heaven" by performing the mitzvot. This is a gross mischaracterization of our religion. It is important to remember that unlike some religions, Judaism is not focused on the question of how to get into heaven. Judaism is focused on life and how to live it. Non-Jews frequently ask me, "do you really think you're going to go to Hell if you don't do such-and-such?" It always catches me a bit off balance, because the question of where I am going after death simply doesn't enter into the equation when I think about the mitzvot. We perform the mitzvot because it is our privilege and our sacred obligation to do so. We perform them out of a sense of love and duty, not out of a desire to get something in return. In fact, one of the first bits of ethical advice in Pirkei Avot (a book of the Mishnah) is: "Be not like servants who serve their master for the sake of receiving a reward; instead, be like servants who serve their master not for the sake of receiving a reward, and let the awe of Heaven [meaning G-d, not the afterlife] be upon you."

Nevertheless, we definitely believe that your place in the Olam Ha-Ba is determined by a merit system based on your actions, not by who you are or what religion you profess. In addition, we definitely believe that humanity is capable of being considered righteous in G-d's eyes, or at least good enough to merit paradise after a suitable period of purification.

Do non-Jews have a place in Olam Ha-Ba? Although there are a few statements to the contrary in the Talmud, the predominant view of Judaism is that the righteous of all nations have a share in the Olam Ha-Ba. Statements to the contrary were not based on the notion that membership in Judaism was required to get into Olam Ha-Ba, but were grounded in the observation that non-Jews were not righteous people. If you consider the behavior of the surrounding peoples at the time that the Talmud was written, you can understand the rabbis' attitudes. By the time of Rambam, the belief was firmly entrenched that the righteous of all nations have a share in the Olam Ha-Ba.
Gan Eden and Gehinnom

The place of spiritual reward for the righteous is often referred to in Hebrew as Gan Eden (GAHN ehy-DEHN) (the Garden of Eden). This is not the same place where Adam and Eve were; it is a place of spiritual perfection. Specific descriptions of it vary widely from one source to another. One source says that the peace that one feels when one experiences Shabbat properly is merely one-sixtieth of the pleasure of the afterlife. Other sources compare the bliss of the afterlife to the joy of sex or the warmth of a sunny day. Ultimately, though, the living can no more understand the nature of this place than the blind can understand color.

Only the very righteous go directly to Gan Eden. The average person descends to a place of punishment and/or purification, generally referred to as Gehinnom (guh-hee-NOHM) (in Yiddish, Gehenna), but sometimes as She'ol or by other names. According to one mystical view, every sin we commit creates an angel of destruction (a demon), and after we die we are punished by the very demons that we created. Some views see Gehinnom as one of severe punishment, a bit like the Christian Hell of fire and brimstone. Other sources merely see it as a time when we can see the actions of our lives objectively, see the harm that we have done and the opportunities we missed, and experience remorse for our actions. The period of time in Gehinnom does not exceed 12 months, and then ascends to take his place on Olam Ha-Ba.

Only the utterly wicked do not ascend at the end of this period; their souls are punished for the entire 12 months. Sources differ on what happens at the end of those 12 months: some say that the wicked soul is utterly destroyed and ceases to exist while others say that the soul continues to exist in a state of consciousness of remorse.

This 12-month limit is repeated in many places in the Talmud, and it is connected to the mourning cycles and the recitation of Kaddish. See Life, Death and Mourning.

http://www.sichosinenglish.org/books/to-live-and-live-again/04.htm

The View Of Rambam
Rambam[84] maintains that the World to Come (Olam HaBa) is the World of Souls (Olam HaNeshamos), which is often referred to as the Garden of Eden (Gan Eden). It is from this pool of souls in the spiritual realms that every soul departs when it is about to descend into a body, and it is to this same state that the soul returns when it leaves the body at the conclusion of its mission.[85] Ultimately, when the time comes for the Resurrection, this will be (as conceived by Rambam) a transient stage, for after the Resurrection the body will again die, and the soul will return to the World to Come, i.e., to the World of Souls.

http://www.webshas.org/emunah/haba.htm

http://www.partnersintorah.org/parsha-partner/vayechi-5770

http://koshertube.com/videos/index.php?option=com_seyret&task=videodirectlink&id=2169&Itemid=4

[White Israelite]

Solomon states in the book of Ecclesiastes: "For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?" (Ecc. 3:19-21 NKJV)

"But for him who is joined to all the living there is hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion." (Ecc. 9:4 NKJV)

In the book of Job it is stated: "But man dies and is laid away; indeed he breathes his last and where is he?... So man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor be roused from their sleep... If a man dies, shall he live again?" (Job 14:10,12,14a NKJV)

[muman613]

Solomon states in the book of Ecclesiastes: "For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?" (Ecc. 3:19-21 NKJV)

"But for him who is joined to all the living there is hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion." (Ecc. 9:4 NKJV)

In the book of Job it is stated: "But man dies and is laid away; indeed he breathes his last and where is he?... So man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor be roused from their sleep... If a man dies, shall he live again?" (Job 14:10,12,14a NKJV)

I believe that all the quotes you mention are just discussing physical death, which is the same between animals and man.

MUST WATCH VIDEO ON OLAM-HABA, RESSURECTION OF THE DEAD, GILGUL : http://koshertube.com/videos/index.php?option=com_seyret&task=videodirectlink&id=2169&Itemid=4

http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/jewish-afterlife-beliefs/

Do Jews believe in the hereafter such as life after death?

THE AISH RABBI REPLIES:
The afterlife is a fundamental of Jewish belief.

The creation of man testifies to the eternal life of the soul. The Torah says, “And the Almighty formed the man of dust from the ground, and He blew into his nostrils the SOUL of life” (Genesis 2:7). On this verse, the Zohar states that “one who blows, blows from within himself,” indicating that the soul is actually part of G-d’s essence. Since G-d’s essence is completely spiritual and non-physical, it is impossible that the soul should die. (The commentator Chizkuni says this why the verse calls it “soul of LIFE.”)

That’s what King Solomon meant when he wrote, “The dust will return to the ground as it was, and the spirit will return to G-d who gave it.” (Ecclesiastes 12:17)

For anyone who believes in a just and caring G-d, the existence of an afterlife makes logical sense. Could it be this world is just a playground without consequences? Did Hitler get away with killing 6,000,000 Jews? No. There is obviously a place where good people receive reward and bad people get punished. (see Maimonides’ 13 Principles of Faith)

The question of “why do bad things happen to good people” has a lot to do with how we look at existence. The way we usually perceive things is like this: A “good life” means that I make a comfortable living, I enjoy good health, and then I die peacefully at age 80. That’s a good life. Anything else is “bad.”

In a limited sense, that’s true. But if we have a soul and there is such a thing as eternity, then that changes the picture entirely. Eighty years in the face of eternity is not such a big deal.

From Judaism’s perspective, our eternal soul is as real as our thumb. This is the world of doing, and the “world to come” is where we experience the eternal reality of whatever we’ve become. Do you think after being responsible for the torture and deaths of millions of people, that Hitler could really “end it all” by just swallowing some poison? No. Ultimate justice is found in another dimension.

But the concept goes much deeper. From an eternal view, if the ultimate pleasure we’re going after is transcendence - the eternal relationship with the Almighty Himself, then who would be luckier: Someone who lives an easy life with little connection to G-d, or someone who is born handicapped, and despite the challenges, develops a connection with G-d. Who would be “luckier” in terms of eternal existence? All I’m trying to point out is that the rules of life start to look different from the point of view of eternity, as opposed to just the 70 or 80 years we have on earth.
So what is the afterlife exactly?

When a person dies and goes to heaven, the judgment is not arbitrary and externally imposed. Rather, the soul is shown two videotapes. The first video is called “This is Your Life!” Every decision and every thought, all the good deeds, and the embarrassing things a person did in private is all replayed without any embellishments. It’s fully bared for all to see. That’s why the next world is called Olam HaEmet - “the World of Truth,” because there we clearly recognize our personal strengths and shortcomings, and the true purpose of life. In short, Hell is not the Devil with a pitchfork stoking the fires.

The second video depicts how a person’s life “could have been…” if the right choices had been made, if the opportunities were seized, if the potential was actualized. This video - the pain of squandered potential - is much more difficult to bear. But at the same time it purifies the soul as well. The pain creates regret which removes the barriers and enables the soul to completely connect to G-d.

Not all souls merit Gehenom. It is for people who have done good but need to be purified. A handful of people are too evil for Gehenom, and they are punished eternally. Pharaoh is one example.
So what about “heaven?”

Heaven is where the soul experiences the greatest possible pleasure - the feeling of closeness to G-d. Of course not all souls experience that to the same degree. It’s like going to a symphony concert. Some tickets are front-row center; others are back in the bleachers. Where your seat is located is based on the merit of your good deeds - e.g. giving charity, caring for others, prayer.

A second factor in heaven is your understanding of the environment. Just like at the concert, a person can have great seats but no appreciation of what’s going on. If a person spends their lifetime elevating the soul and becoming sensitive to spiritual realities (through Torah study), then that will translate into unimaginable pleasure in heaven. On the other hand, if life was all about pizza and football, well, that can get pretty boring for eternity.

The existence of the afterlife is not stated explicitly in the Torah itself, because as human beings we have to focus on our task in this world. Though awareness of an eternal reward can also be an effective motivator.

For further study, see Maimonides’ Foundations of the Torah, “The Way of G-d” by Rabbi Moshe Chaim Luzatto, and the commentary of Nachmanides to Leviticus 18:29.

May the Almighty grant you blessings, success - and eternal life!

* Zohar, Mishpatim, Exodus 1:1 * AriZal - Sha’ar Hagilgulim

from “Ask The Rabbi” - http://www.aish.com/rabbi/

PS: Why do you use King James translations. They are very very unreliable translations. I only trust Chabad, JPS and Artscroll translations.. And I have even heard things about JPS...


http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/543,533/What-is-the-Jewish-view-on-the-Apocrypha.html

About how King James Bible mistranslates Torah to indicate Yeshu was Moshiach : http://www.messiahtruth.com/isai53b.html

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Solomon states in the book of Ecclesiastes: "For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?" (Ecc. 3:19-21 NKJV)

That's speaking about the physical body.  And certainly it is true.  We all die eventually.

"But for him who is joined to all the living there is hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion." (Ecc. 9:4 NKJV)

In the book of Job it is stated: "But man dies and is laid away; indeed he breathes his last and where is he?... So man lies down and does not rise. Till the heavens are no more, they will not awake nor be roused from their sleep... If a man dies, shall he live again?" (Job 14:10,12,14a NKJV)

This stresses the importance of the one life we are given.  We get one chance at this.  And it is to be cherished and given great effort since it is a mighty responsibility, and afterwards there is no second chance.

It seems to me that this is not speaking about the afterlife at all.   But one thing it hints at is that you no longer have the free will and can no longer do physical deeds and mitzvot in the afterlife.  Maybe. 

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

The title of this thread needs to be changed.   "Science" is the process of investigation about G-d's creation and finding out observable facts and realities.  This sheds light on G-d's complex creation and shows us its incredible glory.   It does not make sense to say that science "tries" anything.   Science is a process to uncover facts about the physical universe G-d created.  The "scientific method" is the way in which we go about this.

It certainly does not make sense to say that Science "tries to debunk religion" because the whole purpose of science, if one is thinking straight, is to bring a person to appreciation of G-d and a conviction that we were created by G-d.   It is nonsensical to say that "science" - the discipline that uncovers observable facts about the universe - is somehow 'disproving' or 'contradicting' G-d.   The seal of G-d is truth.  You are suggesting that belief in G-d is irrational, and inconsistent with facts, chas veshalom, God forbid.


Scientists interpreting facts in a certain way, is something different.   You cannot blame "science" as a discipline for how certain atheist scientists choose to distort the facts uncovered by science the discipline.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Now can we please look at this with discernment.

"There are those who believe that science will eventually explain everything—including our enduring belief in heaven.  The thesis here is very simple: heaven is not a real place, or even a process or a supernatural event. It's something that happens in your brain as you die."

So what they are really saying is that there really is a heaven, and that is why humans believe in it (and have believed in it for thousands of years), but this author wants to change the definition of heaven to some explanation that limits it or alters it to something non-spiritual.   In essence, he is giving credence to the belief, but he wants to remove the spiritual content with a "thesis" of his.   On what authority rests his "thesis" ?  And whose thesis is it?

Now the key sentence:

"Science cannot definitively proof or disprove Chris's theory, but some scientists are willing to take guesses"

First, we see that this is the "theory" of his friend "Chris," based on some anecdotal encounter with his father who had a "vision."   What is scientific about this?  Please point me to the science because I don't see any.

This is called interpretation.  This is called philosophy.  Call it anything you like, but do not insult my intelligence and call this science and then "blame" science for being on some crusade against religion.   This author (and his friend Chris) may be on a crusade against religion (or he simply doesn't believe in it), but "science" is not.

The author has admitted he is making a guess.   He is taking the research and the facts uncovered about "near death experiences" and he is forming a philosophy out of it, which says that near death experience is what motivates the human belief in heaven.   On what is this guess based?  Like all guesses, it includes projection, conjecture, wishful thinking, denial of other possibilities - even more plausible ones, etc.  The sentence I cited above is worth quoting again.

"Science cannot definitively proof or disprove Chris's theory, but some scientists are willing to take guesses" 

Once one is "guessing," we have been removed from the discipline of science, and we have entered the quasi-"discipline" of science fiction.   He also gives credence to the idea which I constantly stress regarding this topic.  Science is a discipline that investigates the physical world and uncovers facts about the physical world.   Science is not capable of explaining the "supernatural" because supernatural is not within the realm of science - science only has the tools to investigate the physical world, and this defines science.  By saying science cannot definitively prove or disprove his idea, the author is admitting to this basic reality.  Yet he tries to promote his idea anyway.   Well, anyone can get on a soapbox and say anything.  That doesn't mean I have to believe it.  And certainly not when I have been given the truth on Mount Sinai.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Let us be very clear.  "Guessing" is not a component of the scientific method, and in fact when one "guesses," in interpreting his results, one sits on very shaky ground open to not only being critiqued but being proven wrong as well.

[syyuge]

Science is only a systematic, experimental and analytical materialistic knowledge alleged to be ever expanding with more and more additions.

Science is not responsible for the acts of some atheists who were searching the G_d to be associated with atoms, then with sub-atomic particles and now with strings and eleven dimension + supergravity etc.