Elena Kagan MUST be a saintly person, she had an "ORTHODOX" BAT MITZVAH....

[muman613]

Muman613: You evidently don't know me well, if at all. I don't know how old you are, but if you are under 50, then I can inform you that when you were young (or maybe not even born yet), I was sitting under the teachings of Rav Meir Kahane, HY"D....I volunteered for the JDL in NY in the 1970s and answered phones for Rav Kahane when he was in NY. My 18 year old son, in fact, is named after him (he was born the year after Rav Kahane was martyred).

My younger children are in a Chabad school...and the reason I did that was because I remember Rav Kahane telling us that they were the best place to get a good Jewish education. I keep glatt kosher, and am shomer Shabbos as well as shomer mitzvot in general. My zayde Rabbi Avraham ben-Sholom, zt"l on my father's side was a Torah Rav. I am WELL aware of the mitzvah of ahavat Yisrael as well as pidyon shevuyim (ransoming captives). Unlike you, I did in fact grow up in a Torah family and a Torah environment.

I misunderstood what was being asked of the Jewish community: I thought they were asking us to try to get Rubashkin totally exonerated and set free. I did not understand that the life sentence was the real issue (and I agree; a life sentence is way too severe for what he did.)

My complaint is when anyone is asked to work to totally set someone free who has committed a crime, just because they are Jewish.

Yes, when I received the mailing from Chabad I too had concerns that it would be seen as Jews trying to get away with crime... But the issue is that we must stand up against un-reasonable sentences... I hope that justice is served in this case...

I am sorry if I made some assumptions about you. I do not intend to have any disagreement with you... I am 45 years old and I missed Rabbi Kahane but I believe he was one of the wisest Rabbis of our time. You are very fortunate to have studied with him.

[muman613]

Davids son Absolom, did he make Teshuva?

Who said that repentence is not open to all? I didnt. But there ARE people that will never repent. They are reprobate. Many of the Kings did evil in the sight of the L-rd, they brought Israel into desturction. MANY. They were reprobates.

I had 'tough love'  in my life. All that touchy-feely junk will not help a person that is a reprobate. They need toughness.

I think you are referring to Rebuke... There are ways to rebuke a fellow Jew and there are ways to mess up the rebuke. I have studied many writings on the ideas of rebuking others. I have posted many links in the past concerning this...

Free will is the cornerstone of Hashems creation. People must choose Good over Evil.. But in this world there will always be some who choose evil. This is part of Hashems plan because nothing can happen in the world against Hashems will. Hashems will is what we observe and what we experience in our lifetime.

I believe that Evil is here so that we can know what is good. But we must view those who engage in evil as seperate from the evil they commit. Just ask any Baal Teshuva who was off the path for many years... A person is capable of learning and changing his ways. We cannot shut off people just because they have sinned in their past. But we must set good examples so that those who are not sure about Holiness and Goodness can see the benefit of following Hashems commands.

I don't think we disagree... But I am one who believes that everyone really wants to do the right thing. Often they are confused and often they are angry at Hashem and push all things Jewish and Holy away. It is important to try to pull these people back into the religion..
.

[JewishAmericanPatriot]

IT mostr certainly is NOT a "Jewish Idea"

Reprobate: a depraved, unprincipled, or wicked person

What ever gave you some indication that it is some 'idea' anyway? It is a word that describes a person beyond any hope b/c they have totally forsaken G-d.

WHAT have you to say about JAPs grandmother??

Im sorry AsheDinah, I don't know about JAPs grandmother. Could you point me in the direction to learn about her so I can make a comment..

Maybe you are referring to her aunt which she wrote about in a post above... I don't know what to say but it sounds like her aunt did not live in a very good Jewish neighborhood. I can't comment on that because I don't know... But the Jewish law is that we must give honor to our elders, we must stand before them, we must support them when they are in need. I don't think Christianity has anywhere near as many mitzvahs concerning caring for the elderly and especially parents.

I have witnessed great Chesed in the Jewish community for elders... Im just sorry that JAP and her aunt got such a bad impression of Jewish Chesed. The Jewish people are known for their Kindness and Mercy, they are basic character traits of the Jewish people.

It is important for the Jewish community to take care of all Jews, no matter what their background, politics, and religious observance.

Yes, I think she meant my aunt, Yehudis (obm). Aunt Yehudis lived in a Jewish neighborhood that was 'changing', but even before that, most of the Jews who lived there were not religious (they were reform, conservative, etc....but "old school" reform and conservative).

I feel very frustrated apart from that, however....once a month my husband and I deliver food parcels for a local Chabad relief organization, and the nastiness of many of the recipients is astounding. My husband is not a physically well man, and it is a lot for him to lift those cases of food...only to be told by many recipients, "Oh, we don't want those anymore...take it back!" They are supposed to call the agency if they don't want the parcels anymore, yet they never do. Some of the recipients even had the chutzpah to say to me and my husband a few times, "YOU WERE LATE! I waited since 11AM for my package!" (even though the agency informs the recipients that the deliverers are all volunteers and due to traffic and other issues, cannot always be there right between the delivery times.)

I told him that is what happens when you give things free to people without any strings, or any requests of them to help out...they take you and the tzadakah for granted. I feel the agency should request of recipients that they volunteer to deliver parcels, too, or something like that, even if they cannot donate anything for the parcels.

The ONLY Jews who have been grateful, kind and friendly to our deliverers of food are the newly-arrived Russian Jews.

[AsheDina]

OK, good discussion, but I have to get, but-many thoughtful things. Thanks everyone for this, losts of discussion, and it was filled with heart filled thoughts.

BUT:

I hope Rahm Emmanuel and his brother die.
 
Sorry.

[muman613]

<snip>

Yes, I think she meant my aunt, Yehudis (obm). Aunt Yehudis lived in a Jewish neighborhood that was 'changing', but even before that, most of the Jews who lived there were not religious (they were reform, conservative, etc....but "old school" reform and conservative).

I feel very frustrated apart from that, however....once a month my husband and I deliver food parcels for a local Chabad relief organization, and the nastiness of many of the recipients is astounding. My husband is not a physically well man, and it is a lot for him to lift those cases of food...only to be told by many recipients, "Oh, we don't want those anymore...take it back!" They are supposed to call the agency if they don't want the parcels anymore, yet they never do.

I told him that is what happens when you give things free to people without any strings, or any requests of them to help out...they take you and the tzadakah for granted. I feel the agency should request of recipients that they volunteer to deliver parcels, too, or something like that, even if they cannot donate anything for the parcels.

The ONLY Jews who have been grateful, kind and friendly to our deliverers of food are the newly-arrived Russian Jews.

I don't know what to suggest to rectify this... Maybe the Rabbi can talk to the members of the community so that your husband doesn't have to schlep packages to people who don't appreciate the effort. That must be really difficult.

I just know that I always seek to see the good in my fellow Jews, even while acknowledging their faults. Those who do wrong should be told what they are doing wrong. In most cases I believe Jewish laws are good for keeping the Jews working together.

PS: Yes, I understand we are way-off-topic now..