Italians and Jews: My two cents

[✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ]

C4J..this is completely unfounded...shame on you.

Muman loves black people, i cant take what he says seriously...

And I don't take what you say seriously either... Do you think anyone cares what you think?

Since when did I say that I love black people? I said that there are good black people who are righteous Jews. I guess you don't know the difference between a good person and a bad one... They are all the same to self-righteous bigoted blow-hards like yourself..

More evidence the guy wants every gentile on this forum gone...CJD was right...thank goodness chaims our leader and not you...

if i am being brutally honest i think ben is a far more rightous jew, than jtf kahane was right, muman, and ron put togather.

i think chaims brilliant but giving people like ron and especially muman who shows no repsect towards gentiles.

this is one of the most bigoted posts i ever came across on jtf. Muman has been the first member i got in contact with through messages and ICQ since i joined jtf. And well i'm a gentile. so that really throws your allegations out of the window.

hindu zionists.i don't think muman said any provovcative thing.it is the spirit of his posts that is very distubing to many here.i don't have anything against him and i don't think he is provoke our christian memebers on purpose.but you agree with me that his anti christian bashing need to be stooped right?

It is not in his nature to provoke or hate anybody.

[nessuno]

I don't like any believing Christians because of experience with them and some experiences I have with Christianity (once, an example of the problem was posted in the forum, I don't remember where and when, but none of the Christians ever denied the anti-Semitism showed there).

...

Judaism has a problem with Christianity, and I follow it. So does Christianity with Judaism and you follow it (and I know what I'm talking about, but I guess the Christian-worshippers here would do anything to stop me from revealing it).

Christians you should place your name into the parts where he says "Christian". He's talking about you!


Examples:
"I don't like Irish Zionist because of experience with people who believe like he does, and some experiences I have with Irish Zionist's religion. Once, an example of the problem was posted in the forum, I don't remember where and when, but Irish Zionist never denied the anti-Semitism showed there).  Judaism has a problem with Irish Zionist's religion, and I follow it. So does Irish Zionist's religion with Judaism and you follow it (and I know what I'm talking about, but I guess the Christian-worshippers here would do anything to stop me from revealing it). "

"I don't like Rubystars because of experience with people who believe like she does, and some experiences I have with Rubystars' religion. Once, an example of the problem was posted in the forum, I don't remember where and when, but Rubystars never denied the anti-Semitism showed there).  Judaism has a problem with Rubystars' religion, and I follow it. So does Rubystars' religion with Judaism and you follow it (and I know what I'm talking about, but I guess the Christian-worshippers here would do anything to stop me from revealing it). "

I don't understand the very last line of that post...at all.

he said that he want to tell me the truth but the christian lobby will prvent it from him.

what?

[✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ]

Look Muman, Ron, and anyone else, you guys should separate your disliking of Christianity and your disliking of Christians. The former is understandable, the latter is not.

Well it doesnt seem to me that they hate Christianity. If giving historical references makes certain members uncomfortable, what can they do?

that is the point.by this historical references we are ruining ourselves ideologically.we need to look to the future not the past.and yes rea again ron's post.he is an anti-christian ilek no other.what do you say if would have replaced the word christian with the word hindu?

doesnt right wing nationalism mean also introspecting your history and heritage, and analyze what had gone through, and take precautions that future generations wouldnt have to go through those in future. Liberals forget their history and past, Nationalists dont

[muman613]

I do not hate any Christians... I have deep problems with the religion, but I am willing to look aside from that, in the spirit of working for a common goal.

Our religion teaches us that the nations will not be true friends in the end... We should, the Jewish people, should never ever, ever rely on the nations to support them in their wars for the Holy Land. The fact that JTF is doing so is a questionable one, but one which I agree is required in order to get more support. The overall goal I see it is to get the Jewish people to support JTF, to make mass Aliyah to Israel, to create a strong Jewish government based on the Torah, and to fight all the evil which arises for us to fight...

This is nothing against the non-Jews here. I am sure that there are the righteous among nations who will all be with us when the Moshiach comes, and all the prophecies are realized. Every person, every faith, every human being on the planet has a purpose in the great scheme of things, and in the world to come.

I am proud that the mission of the Jewish people is to bring the light of Hashem into this world. I am also hoping that the righteous Jews are the light unto the nations which Moses implored us to be. I will continue to point out the histories of those who rose against us, and the subjugation and misery which my ancestors were put though for so many centuries. Antisemitism is one of the worst prejudices because it has no real cause, it is a supernatural hatred.

I don't harbor any grudges against those who speak against me because I know that my belief is the belief that the world will be rectified, it will be righteous and full of the light of Hashem... I have no doubt in my mind this will happen, with me or without me..

I am sorry if this topic had degenerated into another argument between the religions... I am not going to reprimand Ron though because I know that he too believes what I believe... I do not agree with him that the non-Jews have no place helping us here at JTF (if that is indeed what he thinks {I have not asked})... But I hope that everyone realizes what the issue with Christianity is to religious Jews...

[Ben m]

C4J..this is completely unfounded...shame on you.

Muman loves black people, i cant take what he says seriously...

And I don't take what you say seriously either... Do you think anyone cares what you think?

Since when did I say that I love black people? I said that there are good black people who are righteous Jews. I guess you don't know the difference between a good person and a bad one... They are all the same to self-righteous bigoted blow-hards like yourself..

More evidence the guy wants every gentile on this forum gone...CJD was right...thank goodness chaims our leader and not you...

if i am being brutally honest i think ben is a far more rightous jew, than jtf kahane was right, muman, and ron put togather.

i think chaims brilliant but giving people like ron and especially muman who shows no repsect towards gentiles.

this is one of the most bigoted posts i ever came across on jtf. Muman has been the first member i got in contact with through messages and ICQ since i joined jtf. And well i'm a gentile. so that really throws your allegations out of the window.

hindu zionists.i don't think muman said any provovcative thing.it is the spirit of his posts that is very distubing to many here.i don't have anything against him and i don't think he is provoke our christian memebers on purpose.but you agree with me that his anti christian bashing need to be stooped right?

It is not in his nature to provoke or hate anybody.

i din't say that is nature his provocative but rather the nature of his posts.

[Ben m]

Look Muman, Ron, and anyone else, you guys should separate your disliking of Christianity and your disliking of Christians. The former is understandable, the latter is not.

Well it doesnt seem to me that they hate Christianity. If giving historical references makes certain members uncomfortable, what can they do?

that is the point.by this historical references we are ruining ourselves ideologically.we need to look to the future not the past.and yes rea again ron's post.he is an anti-christian ilek no other.what do you say if would have replaced the word christian with the word hindu?

doesnt right wing nationalism mean also introspecting your history and heritage, and analyze what had gone through, and take precautions that future generations wouldnt have to go through those in future. Liberals forget their history and past, Nationalists dont

i meant that we need to look into the past it is unhealthy to let historical grudges to affet your decisions for the future.you know if we will harbour historical grudges we couldn't possibly work togheter and this is obviously not the case.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

As I said before, my mother (obm) converted to Torah Judaism in 1944, a few years before she met and married my father, who was a born Jew. Born Jews have no idea how hard it is for converts, esp. anyone who converted during WW2, when Jews were being murdered in Europe. For many years, until the 1980s, my mom was the only convert she knew, and born Jews (including my Jewish grandparents, sad to say) made life very difficult for her because they felt intimidated by a convert who knew more about Torah than they did.

Just so you know (you may already know this), born Jews, especially those who have assimilated to a certain extent (the extent which they on their own determined was appropriate, no more no less of course!) are also very intimidated by a descendant born-Jew who decides to embrace the religion and observance to a level greater than they and to know Torah greater than they, directly contrary to what they themselves decided.  Also, the decision to reject the aspects of assimilation they have embraced also hurts them deeply and they make it well known.   From what I've seen, a lot of times baalei teshuvah and gerim share similar types of experiences.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Obviously not unfounded is it as cjd agrees with my post.

Muman, Ron etc imo hate chrstians. They can deny it till their blue in the face but its true. if i am being brutally honest i think ben is a far more rightous jew, than jtf kahane was right, muman, and ron put togather...

You are in no place to judge.

I won't speak for the others, but you're climbing up the wrong tree here.  I see from the beginning when you joined the forum your goal was to set the Jews in here against each other, set Torah Jews against secular, or Torah Jews against gentiles now.   This is not a wise strategy for you.  Your time may be limited here.   I have nothing but respect for our gentile members on this site (except for the clowns like yourself who spout neo-nazi-like beliefs or make excuses for others who do), and gentiles deserve respect.   Your suggestion that I "hate" people here chas veshalom or am not tolerant, is complete nonsense.  Your comments about me now, like the ones you've made in the past have nothing to do with what I actually post here on the forum.  Do you think you can get away with baselessly slandering me in ways that contradict the actual things I say here? 

As to your "assessments" about who is righteous and who isn't - Who do you think you are?   God will do the judging and someone so arrogant won't fare well.  You ought to fix your ways before it's too late.   And even faster than that, you ought to straighten yourself out as a member of this forum because we'll kick you out of here far sooner than you'll get to know God's reward and punishment.

Consider yourself warned.

[Zelhar]

C4J..this is completely unfounded...shame on you.

Muman loves black people, i cant take what he says seriously...

And I don't take what you say seriously either... Do you think anyone cares what you think?

Since when did I say that I love black people? I said that there are good black people who are righteous Jews. I guess you don't know the difference between a good person and a bad one... They are all the same to self-righteous bigoted blow-hards like yourself..

More evidence the guy wants every gentile on this forum gone...CJD was right...thank goodness chaims our leader and not you...

if i am being brutally honest i think ben is a far more rightous jew, than jtf kahane was right, muman, and ron put togather.

i think chaims brilliant but giving people like ron and especially muman who shows no repsect towards gentiles.

this is one of the most bigoted posts i ever came across on jtf. Muman has been the first member i got in contact with through messages and ICQ since i joined jtf. And well i'm a gentile. so that really throws your allegations out of the window.

hindu zionists.i don't think muman said any provovcative thing.it is the spirit of his posts that is very distubing to many here.i don't have anything against him and i don't think he is provoke our christian memebers on purpose.but you agree with me that his anti christian bashing need to be stooped right?

It is not in his nature to provoke or hate anybody.

i din't say that is nature his provocative but rather the nature of his posts.

You are inciting people to fight. You are way too involved with this thread even though what you should do is stay out of it.

[Dr. Dan]

C4J, I have to disagree with you about Ron, KahanewasRight, and Muman, etc.  All are righteous Jews and non are "Black Lovers" as you call it.  All three are extremely intelligent, more religious than me, and love all righteous people gentile or Jew.

While everyone has the right to disagree on certain things here, certain respect needs to be given to each other when disagreeing and this is where I agree with you and other members.  I don't think Muman has ever been rude or disrespectful to gentiles, but then again, I'm not a gentile to be offended by what he has written in the past.  I know that Muman is not a snob as I know in real life he gets along with all of his neighbors.  I think it is too bad that you don't like him and I my advice is that for the both of you get it off your chest in private message and work things out on how you want him to talk to you and vice versa in the future.  Muman is more than a reasonable person that will listen and take heed...the question is, are you the same?

KahanewasRight has never done or said anything wrong and I notice more people put words in his mouth and they shouldn't.  I sometimes see the same things done with Ron.

Now with Ron, there is a history of him speaking the way he speaks and his opinion is known. Ron, this is for you...work on the polite respectful talk to our Christian friends.  You are free to have the opinions you have and to say them, but my recommendation is to say it nicely and politely to our friends in JTF.  I know it's not the Israeli thing to be so polite and nice, but believe me, it will take you long way especially if you are looking for friends and allies to respect anything else you might need to say in the future.

As far as me and Ron, I have no problem with him and I like him as a person and poster and have a lot of respect for him..Then again, I'm Jewish so I'm obviously not going to be offended very often.  My only plea to you, Ron, is to tone it down a bit or just be polite when you disagree.  With Ben, I don't expect you to be polite for obvious reasons.

C4J..this is completely unfounded...shame on you.

Muman loves black people, i cant take what he says seriously...

And I don't take what you say seriously either... Do you think anyone cares what you think?

Since when did I say that I love black people? I said that there are good black people who are righteous Jews. I guess you don't know the difference between a good person and a bad one... They are all the same to self-righteous bigoted blow-hards like yourself..

More evidence the guy wants every gentile on this forum gone...CJD was right...thank goodness chaims our leader and not you...

Obviously not unfounded is it as cjd agrees with my post.

Muman, Ron etc imo hate chrstians. They can deny it till their blue in the face but its true. if i am being brutally honest i think ben is a far more rightous jew, than jtf kahane was right, muman, and ron put togather. People call him a bigot yet he is alot  ore tolerant of gentiles then these so called veteran members.

i think chaims brilliant but giving people like ron and especially muman who shows no repsect towards gentiles. I never preach christianity on here, and alot of my religous questions(towards chaim on ask jtf) have always involved the torah(Tanach  to me). Yet it seems fair game that black worshippers like ron and muman get a free range to literally slate christianity.

I think you need to stop defending muman, realise that the forum is not as active because of people like him, and perhaps we would get more gentile members which would only help chaims cause.

What i loved about this movement was the fact that people of different faiths and countries all wanted the same thing. But less than a hand full of members on here are ruining chaim chance to expand his movement.

I might get slated for this but i think alot of gentiles will be pleased i said this, as i can see cracks in the coolest of members starting to show. So since i am probabl the least liked gentile, its best i say this.

BTW if you must know my fav posters are jewish, new york, jtfamericanpatriot, gematria.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Polite rapists.

  Oh, please.

I laughed at that one too.

me too.come on.let's ban those who preach hatred for each other religions.i personally don't have any problems to work with any jew as long as he is not neturi karta and with any gentile as long as he isn't black and muslim (unless he will prove he is righthouse (the blacks,muslims aren't righthouse by definition)).and come on if you think you are being accused for nothing say in public that do you think we need gentiles in the movement.

You're an opportunist.  You seize every disagreement and every discussion here to attack Ron and call for banning certain "undesirables" you wish weren't on the forum.     It's funny how you come in here and instigate thinking you know what's best for the movement when a few days ago you didn't even know that nazis shouldn't be "tolerated" here.

Why you do this is very transparent, but I'm not going to get into this nonsense with you here.  

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I disagree with Chaim's ideas on this just like most of the members here disagre with Rabbi Kahane on Germany (ysv"s). He himself said I have the right to disagree with him (not that's relavent anymore). Judaism has a problem with Christianity, and I follow it. So does Christianity with Judaism and you follow it (and I know what I'm talking about, but I guess the Christian-worshippers here would do anything to stop me from revealing it).
Whether you like it or not, your attacks against me are biased and have 0 evidence in reality - therefore, you're a biased tool used by the forum's Christian community just because I'm not very popular among it.

MY Christianity has NEVER had a problem with Judaism so don't throw those of US here on JTF into YOUR category.

This may be a point that you are neglecting to consider, Ron.   There are different forms of Christianity today.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

This 'you are my favorite member' crap has got to stop.  It's in the exact same spirit as the provocation with which our Christian members are complaining.   It's starting to be a real turnoff.  At first it was funny, now it's just a reminder of how silly aspects of this forum are becoming.  

The next step is going to be a time out corner in my head for people that are consistently provocative with their posts.  

Indeed, this is what allowing the kiddies on the forum produces.   However, I will repeat what I've said before, JTF needs to establish standards and guidelines to maintain the quality of the site, even despite the potential character of some of its members as it expands.   I have seen other successful forums where they are very exacting about certain basic groundrules.  Without doing so, the forum takes on the character of its lowest common denominator and becomes an intolerable place for most people including longtime members.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Look Muman, Ron, and anyone else, you guys should separate your disliking of Christianity and your disliking of Christians. The former is understandable, the latter is not.

And If you don't believe the sincerity of Christians who support the Jewish people, well that's your choice, but still you can be decent ans polite. I challenge you to quote any great rabbi who instructs Jews to provoke and insult goyim who actually try to be nice and friendly with Jews.

Zelhar, I think you put this well, and I would say I have to agree with you on this.

What you say in general is true, but all the moreso for good people we have gotten to know on this site, whom we already know are not out to hurt us but regularly demonstrate they want to work together.  I honestly don't see what the problem or the big hangup is.  Maybe it's my upbringing and how my parents raised me, but people deserve respect unless proven otherwise.  All the moreso when they have proven they deserve respect.    If people here are afraid of "alterior motives" or other such things, that can be true of any members, including supposedly (or actually) Jewish ones, so we have to avoid paranoia and leave that up to Hashem in my opinion.  We can only do our best to discern in each case who is sincere and who isn't.   I see a great many sincere people on this forum.

[Dr. Dan]

Except nobody listens...One continues to accuse and the other has no choice but to defend...and then someone needs to have the last word...it's just a waste...

I'm here trying to defend my friends on both sides and yet one has to throw another punch...I mean if one can't control it, just do it over PM.

I ask for respect and cooperaton and yet I continue to see the same people bickering and pointing fingers.

This type of stubborness is very bad when it is with family and loved ones. That energy should be used against those who want to destroy the Jewish peope eg self hating Jews, Muslims, Nazis.

Thank you,  Dr.  Dan.     I certainly agree with Chaim's opinion that you are a voice of wisdom and common sense.

What you conveyed is something I have been trying to stress in many posts here in the JTF Forum and on ZooTube when the focus becomes fighting against each other than against the Leftists,   Muslims,   Nazis/  911 Inside Job Conspiracy Freaks.    

Everyone should realize that when we are divided on the Core of JTF,    it chases away BOTH Jews and Non-Jews.    And it makes people,   including myself,   much more reluctant to mention JTF to people (  both Jews and Non-Jews )  who would be potential good members.       The amount of Monetary support that this infighting can cost JTF is SUBSTANTIAL.    More than some can even imagine.      I proudly support the vision of JTF that reflects the vision of the late and great Rabbi Meir Kahane and Chaim.    

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I do not hate any Christians... I have deep problems with the religion, but I am willing to look aside from that, in the spirit of working for a common goal.

Our religion teaches us that the nations will not be true friends in the end... We should, the Jewish people, should never ever, ever rely on the nations to support them in their wars for the Holy Land. The fact that JTF is doing so is a questionable one, but one which I agree is required in order to get more support.

I disagree with the assertion that JTF is "relying on the gentiles" for support.  We are simply working together.  There is a big difference.   Chaim has many times explained the concept of relying on the nations and how wrong that is for the Jewish people.  That is a message JTF does not stray from.  So with that perspective in mind, there can still be cooperation and mutual help of the nations/gentiles toward common goals. 

Aside from that Muman, I know your heart is in the right place and I hope some of those upset with you will be willing to work toward more of a mutual understanding.  Furthermore, we both know that the sages urge us to be careful with our words.   That is much easier done in person than on a forum like this where typing away can feel like a free-for-all and sometimes a more anonymous venue, however, working on developing that sensitivity here as well can perhaps lead to greater understanding between people and less perceived insult or offense.  Words are very powerful here as well.  I think we should all keep that in mind.

[arksis]

I do not hate any Christians... I have deep problems with the religion, but I am willing to look aside from that, in the spirit of working for a common goal.

Our religion teaches us that the nations will not be true friends in the end... We should, the Jewish people, should never ever, ever rely on the nations to support them in their wars for the Holy Land. The fact that JTF is doing so is a questionable one, but one which I agree is required in order to get more support.

I disagree with the assertion that JTF is "relying on the gentiles" for support.  We are simply working together.  There is a big difference.   Chaim has many times explained the concept of relying on the nations and how wrong that is for the Jewish people.  That is a message JTF does not stray from.  So with that perspective in mind, there can still be cooperation and mutual help of the nations/gentiles.

Thank you KWRBT for this and other posts in this thread. God bless you for your kind thoughts, words, and common sense!

[muman613]

Thank you KWRBT

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I do not hate any Christians... I have deep problems with the religion, but I am willing to look aside from that, in the spirit of working for a common goal.

Our religion teaches us that the nations will not be true friends in the end... We should, the Jewish people, should never ever, ever rely on the nations to support them in their wars for the Holy Land. The fact that JTF is doing so is a questionable one, but one which I agree is required in order to get more support.

I disagree with the assertion that JTF is "relying on the gentiles" for support.  We are simply working together.  There is a big difference.   Chaim has many times explained the concept of relying on the nations and how wrong that is for the Jewish people.  That is a message JTF does not stray from.  So with that perspective in mind, there can still be cooperation and mutual help of the nations/gentiles.

Thank you KWRBT for this and other posts in this thread. G-d bless you for your kind thoughts, words, and common sense!

Your welcome and God bless you as well.

[Chaim Ben Pesach]

בס''ד

What Ron and Muman have often written about Christians is obviously not JTF policy. Especially the tone of their remarks.

Ron himself explains in this thread that he disagrees with me on this issue.

Muman also clearly disagrees. Muman has often mentioned the many groups that he generously contributes to. He has never contributed a penny to JTF. Muman also has urged other people to contribute to various causes. Again, I have not seen him urge people to give to JTF.

There are people on this forum with different opinions. They obviously do not agree with me and they do not represent JTF.

My question is: why would that make people so uncomfortable? I am not going to ban members just because they disagree with me.

A lot of people write things here that I strongly disagree with. "Jewish American Patriot" in her latest post even defends Mussolini. And she writes that the Jews she knows are not nice enough to Gentiles. The truth is that no people on the face of the earth suck up to everyone as much as the Jews. But according to JAP, the Jews she knows don't suck up enough. Now we understand why for 2000 years there were Crusades, Inquisitions, forced conversions, massive rape of Jewish women, pogroms and finally the holocaust. It's because Jews weren't nice enough.  

We have all types of different views on this forum. But JTF's position is clear: we work with righteous people of all nations. We want a coalition of righteous Jews and righteous Gentiles to save America, Israel and Western civilization from Islam and from the establishment traitors in the news media, Hollywood and the multinational corporations. That is what JTF stands for. Those members expressing a different view are speaking only for themselves. And I think it is clear from the posts, that the vast majority of our members agree with me on what JTF should stand for. The vast majority of our Jewish and Gentile members agree that JTF must be an organization where we all fight together with mutual respect and love to make this a better world.

[Dr. Dan]

temporary bans sound good to me when this provocations are done in public..in private, it's none of yours my my business.

This 'you are my favorite member' crap has got to stop.  It's in the exact same spirit as the provocation with which our Christian members are complaining.   It's starting to be a real turnoff.  At first it was funny, now it's just a reminder of how silly aspects of this forum are becoming.  

The next step is going to be a time out corner in my head for people that are consistently provocative with their posts.  

[arksis]

I do not hate any Christians... I have deep problems with the religion, but I am willing to look aside from that, in the spirit of working for a common goal.

Our religion teaches us that the nations will not be true friends in the end... We should, the Jewish people, should never ever, ever rely on the nations to support them in their wars for the Holy Land. The fact that JTF is doing so is a questionable one, but one which I agree is required in order to get more support. The overall goal I see it is to get the Jewish people to support JTF, to make mass Aliyah to Israel, to create a strong Jewish government based on the Torah, and to fight all the evil which arises for us to fight...

This is nothing against the non-Jews here. I am sure that there are the righteous among nations who will all be with us when the Moshiach comes, and all the prophecies are realized. Every person, every faith, every human being on the planet has a purpose in the great scheme of things, and in the world to come.

I am proud that the mission of the Jewish people is to bring the light of Hashem into this world. I am also hoping that the righteous Jews are the light unto the nations which Moses implored us to be. I will continue to point out the histories of those who rose against us, and the subjugation and misery which my ancestors were put though for so many centuries. Antisemitism is one of the worst prejudices because it has no real cause, it is a supernatural hatred.

I don't harbor any grudges against those who speak against me because I know that my belief is the belief that the world will be rectified, it will be righteous and full of the light of Hashem... I have no doubt in my mind this will happen, with me or without me..

I am sorry if this topic had degenerated into another argument between the religions... I am not going to reprimand Ron though because I know that he too believes what I believe... I do not agree with him that the non-Jews have no place helping us here at JTF (if that is indeed what he thinks {I have not asked})... But I hope that everyone realizes what the issue with Christianity is to religious Jews...

I'm sorry too Muman and I am VERY sad for you, to believe you will have NO friends in the end that are NOT Jewish. I have always been, and will always be, a friend to the Jews with NO ulterior motives. Do you find it THAT unbelieveable that a non Jew can want the same EXACT thing for Jews as you do?

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "I have a problem with x, y, or z"

I am so disgusted with the ongoing immaturity here on this forum that I quite literally am at a loss for words in how to respond to it.

I left this forum for an entire year because of this same type of behavior by members, only just very recently coming back.

There are some types of people, regardless of race, color, or creed, who enjoy infighting, backstabbing, power grabbing, divisiveness, and other such foolishness.

To these types of persons it doesn't matter if this forum or its members are Jewish, Atheist, Christian, Mohammedan, or Communist -- they are only content when embroiling themselves and others in petty and pointless infighting.

A full three fourths of the forum is taken up now every day by the same three or four individuals' personally directed attacks at each other.

Each minute of the day wasted with this nonsense is allowing Nazi/Moslems time to re-arm, re-load, and infiltrate deeper.

More than a few times I have read strongly worded posts here authored by Jewish members expressing total opposition to every single thing that Rabbi Kahane believed and taught.

I might just have to conclude, sadly, that JTF is a miniscule group of backbiters from a Jewish background, who share no ideology or purpose, joined by a very small contingent of faithful Christian Believers who support us in spite of ourselves.

What a difficult and argumentive people are we Jews.

Almost as disunited as our Nazi/Moslem enemies.

It's truly pathetic.

                           

[muman613]

I do not hate any Christians... I have deep problems with the religion, but I am willing to look aside from that, in the spirit of working for a common goal.

Our religion teaches us that the nations will not be true friends in the end... We should, the Jewish people, should never ever, ever rely on the nations to support them in their wars for the Holy Land. The fact that JTF is doing so is a questionable one, but one which I agree is required in order to get more support. The overall goal I see it is to get the Jewish people to support JTF, to make mass Aliyah to Israel, to create a strong Jewish government based on the Torah, and to fight all the evil which arises for us to fight...

This is nothing against the non-Jews here. I am sure that there are the righteous among nations who will all be with us when the Moshiach comes, and all the prophecies are realized. Every person, every faith, every human being on the planet has a purpose in the great scheme of things, and in the world to come.

I am proud that the mission of the Jewish people is to bring the light of Hashem into this world. I am also hoping that the righteous Jews are the light unto the nations which Moses implored us to be. I will continue to point out the histories of those who rose against us, and the subjugation and misery which my ancestors were put though for so many centuries. Antisemitism is one of the worst prejudices because it has no real cause, it is a supernatural hatred.

I don't harbor any grudges against those who speak against me because I know that my belief is the belief that the world will be rectified, it will be righteous and full of the light of Hashem... I have no doubt in my mind this will happen, with me or without me..

I am sorry if this topic had degenerated into another argument between the religions... I am not going to reprimand Ron though because I know that he too believes what I believe... I do not agree with him that the non-Jews have no place helping us here at JTF (if that is indeed what he thinks {I have not asked})... But I hope that everyone realizes what the issue with Christianity is to religious Jews...

I'm sorry too Muman and I am VERY sad for you, to believe you will have NO friends in the end that are NOT Jewish. I have always been, and will always be, a friend to the Jews with NO ulterior motives. Do you find it THAT unbelieveable that a non Jew can want the same EXACT thing for Jews as you do?

Hi Arksis...

I dont want to get into theology with you my friend... I really try to make my mission the mission of the Jewish people, which is to learn Torah, to try to live by those standards, and to teach it to others. If the nations want to learn from the Jews how to be close to Hashem, then I am willing to teach what I have learned... If there are other motives then I try to distance myself from those motives...

I can believe that there are non-Jews who want the same thing as Jews. Usually I notice that these people end up either wanting to become Noachides, or go the entire 9-yards and convert to Judaism. I am not one to try to convert everyone, but I do hope that when the 'end' is near that many more non-Jews see the light and join us in our belief in the ONE G-d of Israel {and all that entails}...

[arksis]

בס''ד

What Ron and Muman have often written about Christians is obviously not JTF policy. Especially the tone of their remarks.

Ron himself explains in this thread that he disagrees with me on this issue.

Muman also clearly disagrees. Muman has often mentioned the many groups that he generously contributes to. He has never contributed a penny to JTF. Muman also has urged other people to contribute to various causes. Again, I have not seen him urge people to give to JTF.

There are people on this forum with different opinions. They obviously do not agree with me and they do not represent JTF.

My question is: why would that make people so uncomfortable? I am not going to ban members just because they disagree with me.

A lot of people write things here that I strongly disagree with. "Jewish American Patriot" in her latest post even defends Mussolini. And she writes that the Jews she knows are not nice enough to Gentiles. The truth is that no people on the face of the earth suck up to everyone as much as the Jews. But according to JAP, the Jews she knows don't suck up enough. Now we understand why for 2000 years there were Crusades, Inquisitions, forced conversions, massive rape of Jewish women, pogroms and finally the holocaust. It's because Jews weren't nice enough.  

We have all types of different views on this forum. But JTF's position is clear: we work with righteous people of all nations. We want a coalition of righteous Jews and righteous Gentiles to save America, Israel and Western civilization from Islam and from the establishment traitors in the news media, Hollywood and the multinational corporations. That is what JTF stands for. Those members expressing a different view are speaking only for themselves. And I think it is clear from the posts, that the vast majority of our members agree with me on what JTF should stand for. The vast majority of our Jewish and Gentile members agree that JTF must be an organization where we all fight together with mutual respect and love to make this a better world.

Amen Chaim Ben Pesach! God Bless you and thank you! Now let's ALL stand together and remember WHY we're here!