Author Topic: Rabbi Avigdor Miller audio clip on Kahane  (Read 10255 times)

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Offline Mifletzet

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Rabbi Avigdor Miller audio clip on Kahane
« on: May 16, 2007, 04:02:22 PM »
Rabbi Avigdor Miller (1908-2001) was an arch-Litvish rabbi in Brooklyn, a complete non-Zionist.

But nevetheless has some praise here for Rabbi Kahane on this audio clip
http://www.MegaShare.com/177101
made a week after Rabbi Kahane was shot.

transcript:

"Did the Gedolei HaTorah support Rabbi Meir Kahane?

And the answer is they did not support him. But I must tell you something. Rabbi Meir Kahane was a talmid in Mesivta Chaim Berlin in my time. He was a yeshivah bochur and he was a shomer mitzvos always.

He had a fire of love the Jewish people. You have to know that.

The fact the Gedolim didn't support him was enough that we didn't support him; that's enough.

However lack of support doesn't mean that we shouldn't appreciate a  person.

There was nobody who criticized the chofshim more than Meir Kahane.

He criticised the Reformers and the Assimilationists more than anybody else, and that's why he was so hated!

I am certain that they engineeered his assassination.  It wasn't just an Arab who found a yarmulka and put it on.

I'm certain that it was the Manhattan assimilationists who were so angry at him because he was the most vitriolic in criticising them because he showed them up in such a way that there he was really a terrible embarassment for them, and they had to get rid of him.

I can't speak too much in public about this, but I am sure that his assassination was engineered. 

Therefore we are very sorry. We regret what happened to him. He was  in a certain sense an asset to us; yes. We never invited him to speak here because we have others who can speak for us if we want to hear the daas Torah.

Nevertheless when a person has good qualities we're for him!"

« Last Edit: May 16, 2007, 04:05:32 PM by Mifletzet »

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Re: Rabbi Avigdor Miller audio clip on Kahane
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2007, 05:19:42 PM »
Can you upload it to somewhere that makes it easy to download?

If you want I can give you FTP access to my site and you can upload it there for all to download?

Israel

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Re: Rabbi Avigdor Miller audio clip on Kahane
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2007, 05:27:54 PM »
Never mind.

I tried again and it worked fine.

I'm still going to upload it to my site and I will post the link here.

Offline jdl4ever

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Re: Rabbi Avigdor Miller audio clip on Kahane
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2007, 06:49:38 PM »
Sounds to me more like like a condemnation than a praise. "The fact the Gedolim didn't support him was enough that we didn't support him; that's enough."  In other words, he's saying that our Rav was wrong because the Gedolim didn't support him.  Complete bull.  I call that a condemnation.  He just says that he was Shomer Mitzvot and had a lot of love for Jews but that's the only good thing he says about the Rav. 
"Enough weeping and wailing; and the following of leaders & rabbis who are pygmies of little faith & less understanding."
"I believe very much in a nation beating their swords into plowshears but when my enemy has a sword I don't want a plowshear"
-Rabbi Meir Kahane Zs'l HYD

Offline Mifletzet

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Re: Rabbi Avigdor Miller audio clip on Kahane
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2007, 07:22:07 PM »
That's as good as your gonna get out of a Litvak rabbi!

Can you imagine anything positive about R.Kahane coming from Rabbis Bulman, Norman Lamm, Jonathan Sacks, Jakobovitz, Baruch Horovitz, Zeev Leff, Pam, Noach Weinberg, Berel Wein, Feinstein, Jonathan Rosenblum, Shlomo Riskin, Menachem Porush, Michael Melchior, Akiva Tatz, Nathan Lopes Cardozo, Yaakov Goldberg, Kanievesky, Naftali Elzas etc etc?!

Apart from the few actual Kahanist rabbis, the only rabbi who said anything good about R.Kahane at his funeral was R.Mordechai Eliyahu: "Kahane was a gilgul of a Biblical warrior who didn't know the meaning of the word pachad!".

Even the Lubavitcher Rebbe could only say that "Kahane's Torah is correct, but it's not for today!".
« Last Edit: May 16, 2007, 07:29:07 PM by Mifletzet »

Offline jdl4ever

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Re: Rabbi Avigdor Miller audio clip on Kahane
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2007, 08:14:41 PM »
That's as good as your gonna get out of a Litvak rabbi!

Even the Lubavitcher Rebbe could only say that "Kahane's Torah is correct, but it's not for today!".

What does he mean, the Torah is immutable and applies for all eternity?  Anyways, this is why I am skeptical about the "Rabbis" in our time, since if almost none of them could see the greatness of R' Kahane Zs'l then I don't know what to say. 
"Enough weeping and wailing; and the following of leaders & rabbis who are pygmies of little faith & less understanding."
"I believe very much in a nation beating their swords into plowshears but when my enemy has a sword I don't want a plowshear"
-Rabbi Meir Kahane Zs'l HYD

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Re: Rabbi Avigdor Miller audio clip on Kahane
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2007, 08:23:37 PM »
Never mind.

I tried again and it worked fine.

I'm still going to upload it to my site and I will post the link here.

http://www.israelappel.com/k3.wav

Offline kahaneloyalist

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Re: Rabbi Avigdor Miller audio clip on Kahane
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2007, 11:45:30 PM »
That's as good as your gonna get out of a Litvak rabbi!

Can you imagine anything positive about R.Kahane coming from Rabbis Bulman, Norman Lamm, Jonathan Sacks, Jakobovitz, Baruch Horovitz, Zeev Leff, Pam, Noach Weinberg, Berel Wein, Feinstein, Jonathan Rosenblum, Shlomo Riskin, Menachem Porush, Michael Melchior, Akiva Tatz, Nathan Lopes Cardozo, Yaakov Goldberg, Kanievesky, Naftali Elzas etc etc?!

Apart from the few actual Kahanist rabbis, the only rabbi who said anything good about R.Kahane at his funeral was R.Mordechai Eliyahu: "Kahane was a gilgul of a Biblical warrior who didn't know the meaning of the word pachad!".

Even the Lubavitcher Rebbe could only say that "Kahane's Torah is correct, but it's not for today!".
Are you sure the Rebbe said that? I know that he gave a bracha to Rav Binyamin Zeev zt'l that he be succesful in "fufilling his father's great work" and he said we must refer to Rabbi Meir Kahane HaKodesh.
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Offline Mifletzet

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Re: Rabbi Avigdor Miller audio clip on Kahane
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2007, 03:28:51 AM »
Just like the Halacha today is according to Hillel, but when Moshiach comes it'll be according to Shammai, so too maybe the Rebbe meant that one day Kahanism (=one aspect of true Torah) will be implemented, but not today!
« Last Edit: May 17, 2007, 03:34:40 AM by Mifletzet »

Offline judeanoncapta

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Re: Rabbi Avigdor Miller audio clip on Kahane
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2007, 11:34:53 AM »
In 1967, the Lubavitcher Rebbe said that all the Arabs should be expelled immediately.

He said that leaving them there was insane. He was against ANY negotiations or pronouncements of giving up land of any kind.

 He didn't say what rav kahane said should be implemented later.

 He was saying they should be expelled in 1967.

 I read it in yiddish myself. I know what he said.
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Offline jdl4ever

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Re: Rabbi Avigdor Miller audio clip on Kahane
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2007, 04:52:45 PM »
In 1967, the Lubavitcher Rebbe said that all the Arabs should be expelled immediately.

He said that leaving them there was insane. He was against ANY negotiations or pronouncements of giving up land of any kind.

 He didn't say what rav kahane said should be implemented later.

 He was saying they should be expelled in 1967.

 I read it in yiddish myself. I know what he said.

Interesting. 

Quote from ES from an old thread on the kahane.org forum:

According to Rabbi Felsman of Connecticut, he claims to have heard first hand from Rav Hecht of Connecticut who was meeting with the Rebbe when he first heard of Rav Kahane's assassination, the Rebbe remarked, " One of the  greatest Jewish leaders in history has fallen, this is a great day of mourning for the nation of Israel", as he placed his head in his lap in extreme sadness.

When Rav Binyamin went to see him, received a dollar and a blessing, the Rebbe then called him back to the front fo the line, saying, "You are Rav Kahane's son, in that case I must give you a double bracha and another dollar for the success of your yeshiva and in memory of your father.

When Yekutiel took a group of 15 Kahane Chai "soldiers" to march through Crown Heights and to sign people up there for self defense training after the fatal riots and murder of Yankel Rosenbaum, the Rebbe asked Yekutiel what they were doing and who they were. The group, dressed in army uniforms, barrets, boots, fatigues and Kahane Chai shirts. Yekutiel said we are Kahane's army trying to patrol and sign local youth up for self defense. The Rebbe smiled and gave a very passionate bracha, saying, you should have bracha and hazlacha in this vital endeavor."   

It wasinteresting to note that the Kahane Chai march had been banned by the Chabad Council and Beth Din and that Yekutiel had to actually go to court to get a permit to march. The Chief of Police in NY was on hand with a full motorcade when the Kahane Chai march happened. When the Chief of Police asked the Kahane Chai people to leave after several hours of marching etc...Yekutiel said to the Chief, "No problem, however, you cant expect us to leave before seeing the Holy Rebbe." The Chief freaked out at ehich time the head of some civil rights group who was there to make sure the court order and the group's rights would be protected jumped in to the conversation staing that the Kahane Chai group has a permit and every right to see the Rebbe.

The Chief then said, but there are hundreds on line to receive their dollars and blessings before you. At which time Yekutiel said, "That's ok we will wait but we cant come and levae without seeing the Rebbe. Naturally, the Chief and the community leaders managed to find the way to usher the kahane Chai militants in and  the Rebbe set the record straight clearly showing his support for the group and for their mission, in sharp contrast to the actions earlier taken by the Lubavitch Beth Din who obviously had violated their Rebbe's wishes andnot consulted him.

Yes, there is video footage of Binyamin's meeting with the Rebbe and there is footage of the later Kahane Chai meeting. Perhaps someone in NY with the footage will be kind enough to duplicate it for us all. I have seen the footage in the past.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2007, 04:57:27 PM by jdl4ever »
"Enough weeping and wailing; and the following of leaders & rabbis who are pygmies of little faith & less understanding."
"I believe very much in a nation beating their swords into plowshears but when my enemy has a sword I don't want a plowshear"
-Rabbi Meir Kahane Zs'l HYD

Offline q_q_

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Re: Rabbi Avigdor Miller audio clip on Kahane
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2007, 05:20:57 PM »
In 1967, the Lubavitcher Rebbe said that all the Arabs should be expelled immediately.

He said that leaving them there was insane. He was against ANY negotiations or pronouncements of giving up land of any kind.

 He didn't say what rav kahane said should be implemented later.

 He was saying they should be expelled in 1967.

 I read it in yiddish myself. I know what he said.

Rabbi Kahane wanted a Torah state.  I'm not entirely sure what he meant by that. But Chaim seems to talk the same. It wouldn't go as far as creating a civil war. But it'd somehow show people the greatness of a torah lifestyle.

He didn't speak about it much

see
http://www.kahane.org/meir/interview.htm
Israel’s Ayatollahs:
Meir Kahane and the Far Right in Israel.
(a leftist that interviewed him, but you get to read what he said, it's quite a deep interview)

Here you see he wanted sort kind of torah state.

He also mentioned in FANTASTIC video clip talking to some kids, he went into depth..
I must've googled for Kahana <-- note the variant spelling


that is a fantastic clip.. He explains that he wants people to keep shabbat, but he doesn't mention that so much because people wouldn't vote for him.

(no talk of forcing them to )

In another clip. i'm not sure which.. He says he's a rabbi first. You'll find that all his positions have a Torah argument.  The secular arguments didn't defend those positions totally.. It caused minor problems..

For example, with theoretical questions.. sometimes he was asked 'what if the arabs were saints'. - theoretically.  e.g. in the olmert kahane video clip.
In that clip he didn't quote the RAMBAM. He said it'd never happen  - which was right.. but the guy kept asking 'theoretically'.   He didn't get a chance to continue much 'cos it was a brief news program.

He coudl also have been asked, what if they were a minority and remained one and couldn't vote jews out..

He was asked a similar question in a radio interview online, I can't remember his answer.. And in a debate with dennis prager, he quoted the RAMBAM. It was appropriate then, 'cos it was about who represented judaism. True torah judaism.
(now prager may be more open that he's not orthodox. i don't know. He doesn't believe in torah from moses at sinai and the midbar)


the Torah position which he stated in his talk at Brandeis,  is that only jews must be able to vote. He read out a few RAMBAMs in that speach, it was great.

So even if they were a minority and saints, he wouldn't allow it.

Some leftist jews were saying he was a racist.. and zionism is racist.  He showed that if they are going to say that, then it's not kahane.. it's judaism. He was very smart, he knew that these jews weren't so barmy that they wanted to say judaism was racist! And left wingers can't accept that any religion is 'racist' not even islam. So his argument flawed them.

There are also fantastic radio interviews of kahane, they aren't on youtube..
Somebody should put the "kahana" chemed video on youtube. But say kahane not kahana. So people find it when searching.


In the speach at the Hilton, he said somebody, or some people shouted "KAHANE MELECH YISRAEL"..   So I think he may well have hoped to be "prime minister" in secular language. But King in religious language - and that's his true position.. He is a rabbi first.   Imagine Kahane king of israel, what a dream!!!

I think he mentioned that he's a rabbi not a politician, in the speech where the guy through red paint on him, where it looked like blood. The "national press club" one.









« Last Edit: May 17, 2007, 05:29:38 PM by q_q_ »

Offline kahaneloyalist

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Re: Rabbi Avigdor Miller audio clip on Kahane
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2007, 05:29:45 PM »
q_q, the Sefardim of Israel would chant Kahane Melech Yisrael, when they would see him because they loved him
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Offline q_q_

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Re: Rabbi Avigdor Miller audio clip on Kahane
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2007, 05:43:51 PM »

q_q, the Sefardim of Israel would chant Kahane Melech Yisrael, when they would see him because they loved him

I suspected that he wanted that position.

Here's a quote from the interview I mentioned
"
Q: All right then, let’s talk about institutions.

A: In a state governed by the Torah, there must be a king, or if not a king, then a president. But the supreme authority must lie with a rabbinic court.
"

I don't object.  I'd love kahane melech yisrael. 

And even if it were the case that the king could only be moshiach, then i'd have said , be king, let's see if the temple is rebuilt in our times, proving that he is moshiach.

I'm not sure if either
a)when moshiach arrives on the scene, everybody will know who the man is. And we'll know we're not building the temple prematurely
or
b)we only know when the temple is rebuilt

and maybe if he isn't moshiach until he has rebuilt the temple..

If the king has to be elected by G-d then it's a problem us choosing a king.

But i'm sure kahane knew what he was talking about.


The BIG problem though.. and I wonder if this is where the non-zionists are right.  This was mentioned by rabbi dovid gottlieb of ohr, on his site, in an audio on zionism. There is no concept of the state of israel (pre moshiach and after second exile I guess),   in the Torah.

The religious thing that I see supporting kahane, is as he mentioned, the halacha that once we have land, we mustn't give it up. This is mentioned alot in the "yoke of heaven" series on youtube.  I guess not giving it up means we rule it.  But it's still striking that there's no torah concept of the state of israel as we have it today. Or even as kahane may have envisaged, if pre moshiach.  It seems 'too early'.. But given that we have a state now, best thing is to make it as torah based as possible.. I don't know.










Offline Muck DeFuslims

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Re: Rabbi Avigdor Miller audio clip on Kahane
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2007, 05:45:56 PM »
"In 1967, the Lubavitcher Rebbe said that all the Arabs should be expelled immediately.

He said that leaving them there was insane. He was against ANY negotiations or pronouncements of giving up land of any kind."
------------------------------------------------------------
How can any Torah inspired Rabbi think differently ?

Rav Kahane used to often say that his Rabbinic detractors would
disagree with him in public but admit in private that, of course, he was right.

The real question now is where are the Rabbis with the Torah wisdom and courage today ?

One of Rav Kahane's greatest strengths was that he was able to articulate why it was justifiable and essential to give the Arab enemy the boot-- not just based on Torah precepts but also using common sense secular logic.

How Israel is starving for a leader like Kahane today! His loss can not be measured.

Offline DownwithIslam

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Re: Rabbi Avigdor Miller audio clip on Kahane
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2007, 02:53:03 AM »
Rabbi Avigdor miller was a cold blooded cruel rabbi. Like Chaim said, evil people will sometimes have praise for the righteous but only after they are dead. Avigdor Miller is known to have had no love for his fellow jews unless the were "Unzerer Mentchen." I am sure Judeanoncopta can translate.
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Offline Dominater96

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Re: Rabbi Avigdor Miller audio clip on Kahane
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2007, 06:40:00 PM »
Rabbi Avigdor miller was a cold blooded cruel rabbi. Like Chaim said, evil people will sometimes have praise for the righteous but only after they are dead. Avigdor Miller is known to have had no love for his fellow jews unless the were "Unzerer Mentchen." I am sure Judeanoncopta can translate.
Not true. Did you ever meet him ?

Offline Mifletzet

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Re: Rabbi Avigdor Miller audio clip on Kahane
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2007, 05:27:49 PM »
On one of his tapes Rav Miller said "If it wasn't for Mussar, I would have been a murderer!".

The bigger a man's yetzer, the bigger potential tzaddik he is, if he conquers it.

The Midrash says that Moshe Rabbeinu had every bad trait and vice etched on his face (anger, envy, hate, lust etc), but that he conquered each one, and thus became the greatest man who ever lived!

Rav Kahane also had a big yetzer, but he conquered it.

Controlling the yetzer hara and sublimating it, gives a man extra energy for tzidkuss: that is it's purpose.

But it's a constant fight, as the greater the tzaddik, the greater the potential disaster if he fails and falls.

Offline DownwithIslam

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Re: Rabbi Avigdor Miller audio clip on Kahane
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2007, 07:22:07 PM »
I never met him personally but in todays modern age, I know all I need to know about him without a meeting ever taking place. He was the farthest thing from a zionist rabbi. He was a cold lakewood, yishivish type who me and Chaim Ben Pesach both dislike. Chaim mentioned this on an ask jtf a few weeks ago. Avigdor miller had nothing good to say about Rabbi Meir Kahane until the Rabbi was killed. Forget avigdor miller as he is irrelevant.
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Offline Dominater96

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Re: Rabbi Avigdor Miller audio clip on Kahane
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2007, 09:24:51 PM »
On one of his tapes Rav Miller said "If it wasn't for Mussar, I would have been a murderer!".

The bigger a man's yetzer, the bigger potential tzaddik he is, if he conquers it.

The Midrash says that Moshe Rabbeinu had every bad trait and vice etched on his face (anger, envy, hate, lust etc), but that he conquered each one, and thus became the greatest man who ever lived!

Rav Kahane also had a big yetzer, but he conquered it.

Controlling the yetzer hara and sublimating it, gives a man extra energy for tzidkuss: that is it's purpose.

But it's a constant fight, as the greater the tzaddik, the greater the potential disaster if he fails and falls.
WHat Yetzer did Rabbi Kahane have ?

Offline DownwithIslam

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Re: Rabbi Avigdor Miller audio clip on Kahane
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2007, 01:19:33 AM »
That guy meant to say that Rabbi kahane had a big Yetzer Hara but he overcame it. I think the only yetzer he had was to save jewish lives.
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Offline Mifletzet

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Re: Rabbi Avigdor Miller audio clip on Kahane
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2007, 08:06:24 AM »
Quote from: DownwithIslam
Forget avigdor miller as he is irrelevant.

Rav Kahane actually said that ALL Haredim (including Chabad) are irrelevant!

And he was right!

That's why Rav Kahane (in Olam Haba) took the reward of the ENTIRE generation (like Avraham Avinu).

Just like there were tzaddikim in Avraham Avinu's generation, but they barely  figured in Hashem's Grand Plan, so too the tzaddikim in Kahane's generation (including R.Moshe Feinstein, Satmar Rebe, Skvirer Rebbe, Gerer Rebbe, Belzer Rebbe, Vizhnitzer Rebbe, Bobover Rebbe, R.Soloveitchik, R.Aharon Kotler etc etc etc, and even the Lubavitcher Rebbe), for being against Kahane, being apathetic to him, or not coming out in open support, in the future will be shown to have been really "irrelevant"!
« Last Edit: May 21, 2007, 08:23:14 AM by Mifletzet »

Offline NuclearKindness

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Re: Rabbi Avigdor Miller audio clip on Kahane
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2016, 01:31:48 AM »
Interesting. 

Quote from ES from an old thread on the kahane.org forum:

According to Rabbi Felsman of Connecticut, he claims to have heard first hand from Rav Hecht of Connecticut who was meeting with the Rebbe when he first heard of Rav Kahane's assassination, the Rebbe remarked, " One of the  greatest Jewish leaders in history has fallen, this is a great day of mourning for the nation of Israel", as he placed his head in his lap in extreme sadness.

When Rav Binyamin went to see him, received a dollar and a blessing, the Rebbe then called him back to the front fo the line, saying, "You are Rav Kahane's son, in that case I must give you a double bracha and another dollar for the success of your yeshiva and in memory of your father.

When Yekutiel took a group of 15 Kahane Chai "soldiers" to march through Crown Heights and to sign people up there for self defense training after the fatal riots and murder of Yankel Rosenbaum, the Rebbe asked Yekutiel what they were doing and who they were. The group, dressed in army uniforms, barrets, boots, fatigues and Kahane Chai shirts. Yekutiel said we are Kahane's army trying to patrol and sign local youth up for self defense. The Rebbe smiled and gave a very passionate bracha, saying, you should have bracha and hazlacha in this vital endeavor."   

It wasinteresting to note that the Kahane Chai march had been banned by the Chabad Council and Beth Din and that Yekutiel had to actually go to court to get a permit to march. The Chief of Police in NY was on hand with a full motorcade when the Kahane Chai march happened. When the Chief of Police asked the Kahane Chai people to leave after several hours of marching etc...Yekutiel said to the Chief, "No problem, however, you cant expect us to leave before seeing the Holy Rebbe." The Chief freaked out at ehich time the head of some civil rights group who was there to make sure the court order and the group's rights would be protected jumped in to the conversation staing that the Kahane Chai group has a permit and every right to see the Rebbe.

The Chief then said, but there are hundreds on line to receive their dollars and blessings before you. At which time Yekutiel said, "That's ok we will wait but we cant come and levae without seeing the Rebbe. Naturally, the Chief and the community leaders managed to find the way to usher the kahane Chai militants in and  the Rebbe set the record straight clearly showing his support for the group and for their mission, in sharp contrast to the actions earlier taken by the Lubavitch Beth Din who obviously had violated their Rebbe's wishes andnot consulted him.

Yes, there is video footage of Binyamin's meeting with the Rebbe and there is footage of the later Kahane Chai meeting. Perhaps someone in NY with the footage will be kind enough to duplicate it for us all. I have seen the footage in the past.


Thats really interesting , I never knew of that story. Thanks for posting.

Offline Yerusha

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Re: Rabbi Avigdor Miller audio clip on Kahane
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2016, 08:00:09 PM »