Homosexuality & Diseases

[muman613]

Straight people can be just as sick and promiscious. No need to pick on Gays.

Nobody is picking on Gays. It is against the Jewish faith to be openly homosexual and not make attempts to curb such behavior. Also it is stupid to say that straight people can be sick and promiscuous and say this is a reason it should be acceptable that people engage in gay sex... This is the more stupid reasoning in the world... Hey, there are murderers and rapists who are nice people, maybe their raping and murdering is just because of a bad childhood or something... This makes absolutely no sense... All morality requires us to apply a universal standard...

All Sexual Immorality is against the Torah...

[Alex500]

Straight people can be just as sick and promiscious. No need to pick on Gays.

My last post wasn't picking on them it was trying to be a bit funny.  

I know but this whole thread seems to screame gays are evil perverts.

[muman613]

Straight people can be just as sick and promiscious. No need to pick on Gays.

My last post wasn't picking on them it was trying to be a bit funny.  

I know but this whole thread seems to screame gays are evil perverts.

You cant deny that they are living a lifestyle which flies in the face of the word of G-d. There is no defending them, as there is no defending those who desecrate the Sabbath.

[Rubystars]

Straight people can be just as sick and promiscious. No need to pick on Gays.

My last post wasn't picking on them it was trying to be a bit funny.  

I know but this whole thread seems to screame gays are evil perverts.

I don't think someone is evil or a pervert because they have homosexual attraction.  However it is forbidden in both Judaism and in Christianity to act on such feelings. I support people who struggle to overcome the desire to act on it.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

There's no difference between a pedo, a zoophile and a homosexual. All need psychological help and Torahnic guidance.

[JTFenthusiast2]

Alex,  I wouldn't bother Logic and fairness are in short order when it comes to gays on this forum.  I was discriminated against as a gay person and people seem to think that just because one is sexually abstinent, they should forget the hell they went through.  Ron don't you hav something to do in Israel.  I think a lot of us are tired of your obnoxious stereotypical Israeli douchbag attitude

[JTFenthusiast2]

Having dealt with several Israeli morons with no manners who think they can do whatever they want whenever they want, your excrement isn't going to be tolerated by this Jew tonight.

[Rubystars]

Alex,  I wouldn't bother Logic and fairness are in short order when it comes to gays on this forum.  I was discriminated against as a gay person and people seem to think that just because one is sexually abstinent, they should forget the hell they went through.  Ron don't you hav something to do in Israel.  I think a lot of us are tired of your obnoxious stereotypical Israeli douchbag attitude

I'm sorry if I was one of the people who mistreated you. If I did, I didn't intend to.

[Rubystars]

There's no difference between a pedo, a zoophile and a homosexual. All need psychological help and Torahnic guidance.

While all types of sexual deviancies are not allowed by the Bible I have to disagree with you to some degree. There is a difference. Both pedophiles and zoophiles sexually abuse those who can not give informed consent. Pedophiles are the worst of course because they attack innocent defenseless humans. Homosexual behavior is also wrong according to the Bible, but at least it has the possibility of being done by consent of the other partner.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

There is a difference. Both pedophiles and zoophiles sexually abuse those who can not give informed consent.

You're right. Those who choose to sin are worse then those who have no choice.

Pedophiles are the worst of course because they attack innocent defenseless humans.

Those who defame the name of love between humans, spit in the face of G-D and replace His creation of the second sex, and do it by choice and sometimes even idealistically, are worse than those who do it because of hormones only. It's like sanctifying marriage between Jews and non-Jews.

Homosexual behavior is also wrong according to the Bible, but at least it has the possibility of being done by consent of the other partner.

And that's why it may be worse.

[Dr. Dan]

CZ: yes everybody has a choice to do right from wrong whether or not they have a susceptible desire to do sinful behavior.  Some men might be more sexually aggressive biologically, but ultimately have free will to choose right from wrong even if it is harder compared to a man that has less sexual aggressive tendencies.

The same goes with true homosexuals (men who are attracted to the maleness of people like women would be.)  It is a sad condition for the decent ones who want to live a normal life and not alone, but cannot find it in themselves to be with a woman.  I really feel sorry for these people.  And I particularly feel sorry for the ones who have these tendencies, but don't act upon them. I am proud of them for not giving into sinful temptation and choosing not to do that behavior.  I feel sorry for them because it could be a hopeless cause to change their brain to marry a woman and be as attracted to her as a straight man would. So my heart goes out to those types of homosexuals and my strong recommendation as righteous gentiles and righteous Jews is to have compassion for these types and to help them and support them and praise them when they avoid the evil temptations.  You nor me have no clue on how to change their brains to think like a straight person if it is even possible, but we should pray for them that the light bulb will switch on their head and be able never be alone and be able to procreate and love a woman like they are supposed to.

Everybody makes mistakes...yes if you are promiscuous then one can argue you take unnecessary risks, but I don't think people deserve to die because of their innate sexual drives.  That seems a bit medieval.  There are few things sadder than having to look at someone and tell them they have an illness forever.  Usually that news represents a departure from former promiscuous behaviors into more monogamous ones

Everybody has a choice and everybody has free will. I do not believe that there is only one thing that causes homosexual desires. It's probably many different things... some nature, and some nurture. The bottom line is that everybody has the ability to not do a sick, perverse action if they don't want to. In this day and age, there is such a vast array of help available from counseling and religious venues that nobody has any excuse but to give in to this disgusting way of life.

I strongly believe that homosexuality is a matter of choice.  If it is natural and they are "born that way", then the same logic can be applied to pedophilia , bestiality, incest, adultery, fornication, promiscuity and other forms of sexual perversion.   Historically no civilization that has promoted homosexuality had survived.  It had brought down mighty empires in the past.  If America continues in that path, it will lose its status as the global, economic and political superpower.

From "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen...

Point # 26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

It is one of the communist agenda to destroy America from within.

[Dr. Dan]

At least the religious should be able to exclude those who engage in this perversion from their services... I do not want to belong to a shul which has openly gay members. There can be no acceptance of things which are not acceptable.

I have a question though.. What if there is someone who is openly gay, but doesn't do the sinful deed and also acknowledges that it is sinful?

[Dr. Dan]

Jtfe2. From your knowledge from medical school are there any diseases or stds more susceptible in homosexual men that are sexually active?   
Thanks

I don't understand this question Dan sorry. 

Are there any STD's or diseases that are most predominant or exclusive to practicing homosexual men?

[Dr. Dan]

Straight people can be just as sick and promiscious. No need to pick on Gays.

My last post wasn't picking on them it was trying to be a bit funny.  

I know but this whole thread seems to screame gays are evil perverts.

I don't think someone is evil or a pervert because they have homosexual attraction.  However it is forbidden in both Judaism and in Christianity to act on such feelings. I support people who struggle to overcome the desire to act on it.

You said it right, sister.

[Christian Zionist]

Straight people can be just as sick and promiscious. No need to pick on Gays.

My last post wasn't picking on them it was trying to be a bit funny.  

I know but this whole thread seems to screame gays are evil perverts.

Look at the Bible.  God did not punish any society at a larger scale as He did with the gay community in Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboim.  The punishment was exclusive to homosexuality.  

You are correct, straight people can also practice deviant sexual acts but we have to see how God sees homosexuality in comparison to other sexual acts.  Human body is not designed for homosexual activities.  Homosexual acts dishonor God and challenges the Almighty.

Do we need homosexuals among us?

[Dr. Dan]

Straight people can be just as sick and promiscious. No need to pick on Gays.

My last post wasn't picking on them it was trying to be a bit funny.  

I know but this whole thread seems to screame gays are evil perverts.

Look at the Bible.  G-d did not punish any society at a larger scale as He did with the gay community in Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboim.  The punishment was exclusive to homosexuality.  

You are correct, straight people can also practice deviant sexual acts but we have to see how G-d sees homosexuality in comparison to other sexual acts.  Human body is not designed for homosexual activities.  Homosexual acts dishonor G-d and challenges the Almighty.

Do we need homosexuals among us?

you are right on picking homosexual behavior, but really honestly, you have to add all immoral sexual behavior in the mix and that include sex out of marriage.

[Rubystars]

I think heterosexual rape is worse than consensual homosexual acts. Both are wrong though.

[muman613]

Straight people can be just as sick and promiscious. No need to pick on Gays.

My last post wasn't picking on them it was trying to be a bit funny.  

I know but this whole thread seems to screame gays are evil perverts.

Look at the Bible.  G-d did not punish any society at a larger scale as He did with the gay community in Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboim.  The punishment was exclusive to homosexuality.  

You are correct, straight people can also practice deviant sexual acts but we have to see how G-d sees homosexuality in comparison to other sexual acts.  Human body is not designed for homosexual activities.  Homosexual acts dishonor G-d and challenges the Almighty.

Do we need homosexuals among us?

you are right on picking homosexual behavior, but really honestly, you have to add all immoral sexual behavior in the mix and that include sex out of marriage.

Actually Sdom and Amora were not destroyed primarily because of homosexuality... It was destroyed primarily for the cruelness of the inhabitants... The Torah is clear that because they treated guests rudely and lacked any sense of hospitality the cities were destroyed. Sexual immorality was just a small part of the reason..

http://www.vbm-torah.org/archive/intparsha/bereishit/04-65vayera.htm

INJUSTICE AND UNRIGHTEOUSNESS

It is in our Parasha that thread of Sodomite impiety is taken up once more. Even before the messengers arrive in the town to prove its moral mettle, the text of the Torah pointedly incriminates the inhabitants. The passage states:

The men arose from there and surveyed Sodom, and Avraham accompanied them to send them on their way. G-d said: "Shall I conceal from Avraham what I intend to do? Avraham will become a great and powerful nation, and all of the peoples of the earth will be blessed on his account. FOR I KNOW HIM – HE WILL COMMAND HIS CHILDREN AND HIS HOUSEHOLD AFTER HIM TO EXECUTE RIGHTEOUSNESS AND JUSTICE, in order that G-d might bring upon Avraham all that he spoke concerning him" (18:16-19).

By highlighting Avraham's sensitivity to righteousness and justice, while stressing his attention to perpetuating that legacy so that all of the earth's inhabitants might one day be blessed, the Torah seems to indicate, by conspicuous contrast, Sodom's failures. The verses that immediately follow leave no doubt concerning this reading of the passage:

G-d said: The outcry of Sodom and 'Amora is great, and their transgressions are very grave. I will go down to see if they have done as that outcry indicates, for if they have, then I shall utterly destroy them…(18:20-21).

Avraham, then, standing on the crest of the Chevron range, is the paradigm of righteousness, the champion of justice, the advocate for moral education and for the ethical improvement of humanity. Sodom, shimmering below in the verdant valley of the Yarden, repudiates those values, while slowly stirring the bubbling cauldron of its own downfall.

...

SEXUAL IMMORALITY

The most explicit statement of Sodom's iniquity is, of course, the episode of the messengers' arrival. Two of them arrive at the town square in the guise of tired wayfarers, as the afternoon sun, sated with yet another day of witnessing the city's oppression, begins its welcome descent. The shadows lengthen across the paved plaza, but no one takes even the slightest interest in the fate of the tired travelers. Only Lot (himself a foreigner) invites them, but making clear at the outset that they must leave early on the morrow. Graciously, he brings them home and prepares a modest meal, but before they can retire for the night, an ominous and loud knocking is heard at the door. The people of Sodom, "all of them, great and small, young and old" have in the meantime surrounded the house and now raucously demand the surrender of the guests, "so that we may abuse them!" (19:5). Lot, in his most noble moment, demurs. Pleading with them to respect the ancient tradition of domestic refuge, as he closes the door and places himself in between, his entreaties are to no avail. The people of Sodom stridently insist, and only the intervention of the angelic travelers changes the course of the events.

Thus, added to the heavy burden of selfishness, ingratitude, injustice and corruption that hangs over Sodom like a poison cloud, must now be added the weight of sexual immorality and bloodlust. And there is not a individual in that writhing mass, save Lot himself, willing to oppose the lynching! There is, of course, only one other transgression from this troubling list of infamy, one more cardinal principle that lies at the foundations of any functioning society and that every adherent of Jewish tradition must regard with special revulsion: the sin of idolatry. Is there anywhere in the text that alludes to this most insidious of crimes, the first cause of moral relativism and the utter antithesis of all that Avraham and Sarah represent?

...

Thus, considering the issue in its entirety, the Torah indicates without a doubt why Sodom was destroyed.The general pronouncement that its inhabitants were "very evil and iniquitous to G-d" (13:13) is simply a catchphrase for the kinds of failings that we know so well, those very evils whose avoidance we rightly regard as the touchstone of ethical monotheism. The lesson for us is patently clear, but there is perhaps another dimension to the discussion. While we often regard the narratives of Sefer Bereishit as arresting tales of our forefathers and foremothers and not much more, the truth of the matter is that the stories preserved in its parashiyot are at the very core of our consciousness as Jews and as sensitive human beings. It is certainly true that Sefer Bereishit is almost entirely absent of anything that we might regard as normative rulings, commandments in the post-Sinaitic mold, or legal pronouncements after the manner of a code of law. And yet the examples set by its protagonists, for the good and for the evil, are the living expressions of those very laws that are left unstated until later. The edifice of ethical monotheism, first raised up in Sefer Shemot as the people of Israel stand at Mount Sinai and hear G-d's word, is constructed upon a solid foundation – these abiding narratives that describe the challenges and setbacks, the tribulations and the triumphs of our ancestors who were first called by G-d to build a better world. "For I know him – he will command his children and his household after him to execute righteousness and justice, in order that G-d might bring upon Avraham all that he spoke concerning him" (18:16-19).

http://www.chabad.org/global/popup/default_cdo/aid/2620/a/vayeira22_1b/jewish/Commentary.htm

Because the cry of [the victims of] Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous (18:20)

In Sodom it was decreed: "Whoever hands a piece of bread to a pauper or stranger shall be burned at the stake."

Plotit, the daughter of Lot, was married to one of the leading citizens of Sodom. One day, she saw a pauper starving in the street, and her soul was saddened over him. What did she do? Every day, when she went to draw water from the well, she would take some of the food from her home in her pitcher and feed the pauper. But the people of Sodom wondered, "This pauper, how is he surviving?" Eventually the matter became known and she was taken out to be burned, and her cries rose to the Divine Throne.

[Christian Zionist]

Okay, muman13 here are some passages from the Bible regarding Admah and Zeboiim.


Genesis 10:19
The border of the Canaanites was from Sidon, as you go toward Gerar, to Gaza; as you go toward Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboiim, to Lasha.

Genensis 14:2,8
2 that they made war with Bera, king of Sodom, and with Birsha, king of Gomorrah, Shinab, king of Admah, and Shemeber, king of Zeboiim, and the king of Bela (the same is Zoar).
8 The king of Sodom, and the king of Gomorrah, and the king of Admah, and the king of Zeboiim, and the king of Bela (the same is Zoar) went out; and they set the battle in array against them in the valley of Siddim;

Deuteromomy 29:23
and that the whole land of it is sulfur, and salt, and a burning, that it is not sown, nor bears, nor any grass grows therein, like the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboiim, which Hashem overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath:

Hosea 11:8
“How can I give you up, Ephraim?
    How can I hand you over, Israel?
How can I make you like Admah?
    How can I make you like Zeboiim?
My heart is turned within me,
    my compassion is aroused.

[muman613]

CZ,

Here is a discussion of this Torah Parasha, Parasha Nitzavim..

http://www.ou.org/torah/ti/5761/nitzavim61.htm

Therefore, Malbim says that this verse is a summary of a future encounter:

    (21) And it - the later generation, your children who will arise after you - will say [and remark on the awful, but familiar, condition of the land], and the stranger who [as a result] will come from a distant land [will respond]; and they [the stranger] will see the plagues of that land and its afflictions with which Hashem afflicted it: (22) Sulfur and salt, the entire land burnt, not to be sown, nor to sprout, nor for any vegetation to come up on it - like the overthrow of Sodom, Amorah, Admah and Tzevoyim which Hashem overthrew in His anger and His wrath.

Clearly, this could not have been the original state of the land; this must have been the result of Divine intervention, punishment for the sins of the people of Israel.

In verses 23-27, the nations will ask, why did the land suffer for the sins of the people, and why was it so severely treated? The generation will counter that, while it is true that their forebears "forsook the covenant of Hashem, the G-d of their fathers," He had "made (it) with them when He took them out of the land of Egypt," long before their connection to the land. The future generation will share the stranger's amazement that the land is made to bear the punishment of the people. At first, Hashem turned His wrath against the land, and then, after exiling the people, He increased His punishments.

However, despite all this, the people will retain their importance to Hashem. They will not have been absorbed into their exile. Although the exile will have occurred many generations before, they will appear "as at this day", as if the exile had just transpired.

Still, says Moshe, there will be no answer to the essential question: Why will the land have endured these afflictions? Therefore, Moshe provides this answer in advance, which the future generation will say to the nations: The full understanding of the exile will remain unrevealed, known only by Hashem.

On the other hand, "the revealed matters" - namely, the Torah and the commandments - remain, even in exile, "for us and for our children forever, to fulfill all the words of this Torah" to preserve us. Finally, when we will repent, the land will be healed of its afflictions. The land will not respond to anyone else, and will wait, like a woman whose beloved husband has traveled far away, for our return.

Malbim explains that this passage is a crucial postscript to the previous chapter of admonishments. The people might have thought that, once those horrendous and terrifying punishments will have been executed in full measure, the covenant with Hashem would have come to an end. On the contrary, Moshe teaches, Providence will make the land absorb the brunt of Hashem's wrath, while the people will retain their distinctiveness in exile, so the covenant will still be in effect.

If while in Galut the Jewish people repent and are faithful to the Torah then Hashem will remain with them in exile. They will yearn to return to the land, where all the commandments can be fulfilled. They will then be able to return to the land, and to Him, in love.

It is clear from this Parasha why Hashem destroyed the land:

http://www.chabad.org/parshah/torahreading_cdo/aid/53151/showrashi/true

23. And all the nations will say, Why did the Lord do so to this land? What [is the reason] for this great rage of fury?
24. Then they will say, It is because they abandoned the covenant of the Lord, G-d of their fathers, [the covenant] which He made with them when He took them out of the land of Egypt,
25. For they went and served other deities, prostrating themselves to them deities which they had not known, and which He had not apportioned to them.
26. And the Lord's fury raged against that land, bringing upon it the entire curse written in this book.
27. And the Lord uprooted them from upon their land, with fury, anger and great wrath, and He cast them to another land, as it is this day.

[Christian Zionist]

Thank you Muman

[JTFenthusiast2]

So called Christian Zionist,  I know what's in my closet,  what's in yours?  You remind me of someone who needs to have a mask pulled off their face so that we can all see what's underneath?  Really let me help you take that mask off.  I just have a sense that it's about three million times more obscene and ugly than anything I ever did.  I was no angel,  but I never lied, cheated, treated someone as I wouldn't want to be treated myself.   I know at least a handful of gays ( granted that's not many). I have not an iota, a shred of doubt, that when they face G-d,  they will be in beteer stead than some on this forum

[Lisa]

On another note everyone,  our new member Alex500 is really Robert Stark.  Notice how he links to articles and interviews done by himself? 

[JTFenthusiast2]

Ruby,  I won't bresponding to this thread further.  Some people on this forum are truly evil as any one with common sense can see.  I don't need to read thousands of pages of exegesis to know that fakes and frauds are fakes and frauds. Many many times I have condemned gay scumbags on this forum whose behavior defiled common sense and decency, but I know when all homosexual people are targeted selectively.   Thanks and take care.  Cz can keep on in his evil mission while hiding his true face

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

JTFenthusiast2,

I think it is normal and healthy for average people to be revolted by people who are promoting and celebrating a sick and twisted lifestyle. If gay people all minded their own business and kept their orientation to themselves, this would not be an issue. It would still be very wrong, of course, but nobody would even know about it. How would anybody even know who is homosexual or not?