An Example of the Obstacles for JTF in Israel

[eb22]

Yesterday,   I returned to the United States on El Al,   after going on my first trip to Israel.      I had my laptop computer with me and during the long flight was writing a long email,   replying to articles that I copied when Online in Jerusalem,   as well as listening to the most recent "  Ask JTF"  program that Chaim did.


Before a powerful storm lead to the airplane being diverted to Bradley International Airport,   in Windsor Locks,   CT.  (  it's between Hartford,  CT.  and Springfield,   MA ),    an Israeli woman ( probably in her early to mid 70's ) complimented me basically saying that you must be passionate about your writings as she thought I was writing throughout the entire flight.    I thanked her and we started talking.    She mentioned that she was very concerned about the future of Israel.     I told her I understood why one would be concerned about the future of Israel and the United States of America.      This is when I mentioned to her about JTF.     I wrote down the name of the website  (  JTF. Org ) and even mentioned to her that this was a Kahanist organization.    Apparently she misunderstood what I said,   as she was very receptive to going website when she had access to the Internet again.


The powerful storm lead to us being on the ground in Windsor Locks,  CT for over 90 minutes.     That's when I took my ATT Laptop Internet device out,   as this is something I can use throughout the U.S.,   without International rates being applied.       This was my opportunity to convince this woman that JTF was the solution.    I went to the home page of JTF. ORG.  and showed the woman the site.     Then I mentioned the Hebrew site,   as she understandably seemed more comfortable in reading Hebrew.    I went to the following link on JTF that has the link to both the English and Hebrew Forums:


http://www.jtf.org/forums.php


On the upper right hand corner of this page,   there's a moving picture of 3 heroes:  the late and great Rabbi Meir Kahane,  Chaim,  and Noam Federman.   With the 3 pictures rotating every few seconds.     As soon as the woman saw a picture of Rabbi Kahane,   she asked if that was him.    When I proudly said yes,   she said that Meir Kahane was " too extreme"   and that she WOULDN'T have anything to do with the website.    I asked her the following question,   who do you believe provides the best solutions to the problems that Israel is facing? "     She couldn't come up with anyone.    She tried to convince me she was not a leftist and that she was a right winger.   But she felt very uncomfortable with Rabbi Kahane.     


Afterwards,   while she appreciated that I helped her getting her carry-on bags down from the overhead compartments,    overall she seemed less friendly to me.     I didn't take it personally.     But what this did was reinforce the difficult task we have in convincing people that JTF/  Hayamin Org.  is the best solution.     

[Ari Ben-Canaan]

If someone does not like the Kahanist answer, they need to have a "better" answer.  If they do not know a "better" answer than they are a Kahanist who has not admitted it to themselves.  Rabbi Kahane was not a radical, he was honest and had integrity, and he loved the Jewish people enough to tell it like it is.

[eb22]

Ari Shayn,   I completely agree with you.   

I'm of the opinion that, deep down,  this woman knows that Rabbi Kahane was right.   But for one or more reasons,   she won't associate herself with Rabbi Kahane.      This is a tragic situation.   I'm convinced that there are many more people like this woman.     

[White Israelite]

Sadly i've met many Jews that are the same way. People can hate what Kahane had to say, but what he said was the truth. Everything he predicted is happening today.

[Dr. Dan]

Unfortunately, israelis have been brainwashed the Kahane was a terrible nazi-like extremist as if he were ahamdinejad, Gd forbid.

You can mention kahanist ideals and their eyes will open and they'll agree to it and buy it, but when you say "Kahane" they'll get turned off. Its a terrible shame.

On my first date with my wife, who is Israeli, I said I was a Kahanist and she freaked. She later told me why. It was because she thought I was into bombing and hurting "innocent muslims" personally.

Too bad my wife grew up in Israel in the 90's during the Rabin era. I'm sure you can imagine the brainwashing she gotten and joing "seeds of apPeacement".

The second intafada made her realize that arabs couldn't be trusted. But still Kahane was a bad word.

Then I got her into askJTF and she's slowly turning the page. She still thinks we are a little extreme, but after a little things happen, she becomes a little right wing and agrees more with "Kahane's" Torah.

She also acknowledges that today Kahane would be right. Yesterday he was too extreme.

Except today could be too late and yesterday he was ahead of his time. We should have listened. And unfortunately this generation and the generation before us will be as the slaves of Egypt who will not see Israel the way it was meant to be. The generation younger than me (33 yrs old) who never knew Kahane will be the new leadership.

[arksis]

Welcome back eb22! Can't wait to hear all about your trip and your thoughts.
God bless you for trying with that woman, if not for you, she would just keep on thinking the same thoughts she always has. I bet you she is VERY curious about JTF and will come back and read what is written here and change her mind. You started it and that's all that was neccessary! I hope and pray that sometime next month, she introduces herself and tells us the story of a guy on a plane coming home from Israel! 

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Great story, eb22 and thank you for sharing.   Very interesting encounter.    It is great that you tried to promote JTF in that situation, whether it worked or not, I'm sure you got that person thinking.   I think they will probably be at the site at some point in either curiosity or frustration or both.

[The One and Only Mo]

I've been in similar situations, it's quite depressing.

[Secularbeliever]

Great discussion.  You know how everyone over 50 years old remembers where they were when they heard JFK had been assassinated?  I remember where I was when I heard about Kahane.  I had woken up with the morning news and heard the report.  I was saddened to hear it but not devestated.  I had just gotten married, we were planning to have a child, I was working a tough and contentious job and my mother was fighting a losing battle with cancer.  Grief for Kahane just got crowded out by all the other things.

I had seen Kahane debate live in San Francisco with Pete McCloskey an anti Israel Republican.  In fact my wife on hearing the news said, "isn't that the guy we watched debate".  I actually did not like Kahane debating anti-Semites.  It often ended up on freak shows like Mort Downey Jr.  In fact I saw him debate Dr. Mehdi there and found it nauseating (he referred to Mehdi as his "friend").  Like Chaim did I know of someone who risked his freedom and safety confronting Mehdi at Kahane's direction.  I know this person because I see him in the mirror every morning when I brush my teeth.

I was not against Kahane in any sense but I was no longer an avid follower.  I thought his time had passed and that he was engaging in these stunts to keep his name in the news. 

Well there is no doubt that we could desperately use Kahane today.  Authentic Jewish leadership of a charismataic leader is needed like water is needed by thirsty men lost in a parched desert.

[Yaakov Mendel]

I'm of the opinion that, deep down,  this woman knows that Rabbi Kahane was right.   But for one or more reasons,   she won't associate herself with Rabbi Kahane.      This is a tragic situation.   I'm convinced that there are many more people like this woman.     

I agree.
The Israeli establishment has relentlessly demonized Kahane. But there is a deeper reason for Kahane's rejection. During the nineties, the Israelis got weary of fighting all the time. As a result, they fooled themselves into believing that there could be peace with the Arabs and that the Arabs could be trusted. They were so weary so that they were ready to give away their land and return to indefensible borders, in the vain hope that this would appease the Arabs and that the Arabs would become reasonable. Meir Kahane tried to warn them that this was a grave illusion, that such a suicidal policy would only incite the Arabs to lust for more, that it would be perceived by the Arabs as weakness and vacillation. Meir Kahane, of course, was right. But most of the Israelis preferred to cling to their illusions and they resented Kahane for telling the truth.
Also, a lot of Israelis simply could not get Kahane's message, because of the censorship in Israel, because of all the lies and fabrications about him in the mainstream media, because of the power of the leftists in Israel who rushed to ban Kahane because they were so scared to lose their power.
Now, after all the disillusions that followed the Oslo Accords, the Israelis are more inclined to embrace Kahane's ideas. However, the majority of the Israeli society is still very "liberal" and biased against Kahanist ideas. That is why I strongly believe that it is a big mistake for JTF to associate itself with individuals or groups that can give the impression that JTF is somehow racist or hateful or that it promotes violence.
Whether you like it or not, the Israeli society is vastly liberal and westernized. If you really have the survival of the Jewish state at heart, you have to know how to talk to these people who do not think and feel like biblical Jews. You must not scare them away by letting them believe what the left wants them to believe - that Kahanists are racists, fascists, Jewish terrorists, and all other sorts of nonsense.

[The One and Only Mo]

old people are naive. No offense you folks over 70, obviously you are an exception since you are members.

[muman613]

This touches on the very problem I have whenever I bring up Kahanism and Rabbi Kahane with my friends and my minyan. The overwhelming image of us is that we are radical, bigoted, racist, and violent...

In all my 3 years knowing JTF I have not seen this behavior. Sure there are times we get upset, and there are so many reasons to get upset today... But for the most part we are out for the best for the Jewish people and Eretz Yisroel. I believe that over time those who are undecided will eventually come to see things with the crystal clarity which Rabbi Kahane and his vision of how the Jews should handle the enemies who are actively trying to destroy us today.

[nessuno]

old people are naive. No offense you folks over 70, obviously you are an exception since you are members.

What?     Old people are naive?  Make sure they don't find out you think so.  They can be mean too!   

Besides me, who is over 70 here?   

Most over 70s I know have great wisdom.  I might not agree with them 100% of the time, but I wouldn't consider them naive.

[muman613]

old people are naive. No offense you folks over 70, obviously you are an exception since you are members.

What?     Old people are naive?  Make sure they don't find out you think so.  They can be mean too!   

Besides me, who is over 70 here?   

Most over 70s I know have great wisdom.  I might not agree with them 100% of the time, but I wouldn't consider them naive.

Some of the Grumpiest Old Men

[The One and Only Mo]

old people are naive. No offense you folks over 70, obviously you are an exception since you are members.

What?     Old people are naive?  Make sure they don't find out you think so.  They can be mean too!   

Besides me, who is over 70 here?   

Most over 70s I know have great wisdom.  I might not agree with them 100% of the time, but I wouldn't consider them naive.

I meant that they are mostly more liberal and left-wing. They don't believe in force. And for what it's worth, they always seem to vote democrat.

[Secularbeliever]

You must not scare them away by letting them believe what the left wants them to believe - that Kahanists are racists, fascists, Jewish terrorists, and all other sorts of nonsense.<<

It would help if we did not harp on Schvartze stories or try to make heroes out of men like Popper.  I realize I am in the minority on this but I think that is going to come back and bite us if we ever do start getting traction.

[cjd]

I think it has a great deal to do on where people stand politically. Liberals would not be receptive to the Ravs message. I always liked listening to the Rav when he was on the local talk shows. I was always surprised how liberal Jews really felt the Rav and his movement was causing problems for them. If they would have listened to him closer things would be far better today in Israel and also here in the States. The Ravs message will only look good to Liberal Jews in times of extreme emergency. Only then will they understand why he held the positions he did.

[Secularbeliever]

old people are naive. No offense you folks over 70, obviously you are an exception since you are members.

What?     Old people are naive?  Make sure they don't find out you think so.  They can be mean too!   

Besides me, who is over 70 here?   

Most over 70s I know have great wisdom.  I might not agree with them 100% of the time, but I wouldn't consider them naive.

I meant that they are mostly more liberal and left-wing. They don't believe in force. And for what it's worth, they always seem to vote democrat.

They vote Democrat because they have bought into the welfare state mentality and look to the government for social security and Medicare.

[Secularbeliever]

I think it has a great deal to do on where people stand politically. Liberals would not be receptive to the Ravs message. I always liked listening to the Rav when he was on the local talk shows. I was always surprised how liberal Jews really felt the Rav and his movement was causing problems for them. If they would have listened to him closer things would be far better today in Israel and also here in the States. The Ravs message will only look good to Liberal Jews in times of extreme emergency. Only then will they understand why he held the positions he did.

There was a time when liberals had brains and were strong supporters of Israel.  Liberals today have gone Stalinist and don't care if Israel and a strong America survive or not.

[The One and Only Mo]

Old people are scared of angry looking shvartzes, too.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "This touches on the very problem I have whenever I bring up Kahanism and Rabbi Kahane with my friends and my minyan. The overwhelming image of us is that we are radical, bigoted, racist, and violent..."

Try to imagine ancient Israel surrounded by Babylon, and the overwhelming majority of Jews shouting down all other Jews who suggest resistance as "racist", "bigoted", "violent", "extremist", and "unwilling to negotiate".

Try to imagine ancient Israel surrounded by Assyria, and the overwhelming majority of Jews shouting down all other Jews who suggest resistance as "racist", "bigoted", "violent", "extremist", and "unwilling to negotiate".

Now try to imagine ancient Israel surrounded by Rome, and the overwhelming majority of Jews shouting down all other Jews who suggest resistance as "racist", "bigoted", "violent", "extremist", and "unwilling to negotiate".

Is it any wonder Jerusalem fell and we ended up in a two thousand year Exile?

That which every other nation on Earth does not need to be told -- that life is not fair, that most others mean you ill will, that nations destroy and annihilate each other given the opportunity -- that each nationality acts strictly in its best interest and does not have friends -- these things the Jew still fails to comprehend.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Re:  "Old people are scared of angry looking shvartzes, too."

That's because they were expecting to see Driving Miss Daisy, but instead ended up with H. Rap Brown looking at them !

 

[cjd]

Old people are scared of angry looking shvartzes, too.

Old people remember a day when they really didn't have to mix with [censored] and have to deal with them except for an occasional shoe shine or baggage carrier. Folks in their 70 and 80's have seen the change in society that blacks have caused and really would rather not deal with it.

[MassuhDGoodName]

The trouble with elderly Americans?

Those over 70?

They vote Republican because they have bought into the welfare state mentality and look to the government for things like George W. Bush's Prescription Drug Program for the elderly, No Child Left Behind, Affirmative Action programs, etc.

They vote Republican because they have bought into Ronald Reagans' evil "Borrow and Spend" fast lane to national bankruptcy plan, his "Trickle Down Economics Theory" which even his own Vice President George H. W. Bush described publicly as "Voodoo Economics", and they fell for the B.S. that Reagan defeated Communism, when in fact Communism has defeated America at present.

That's the trouble with all the Americans over 70.

Of course, those who still worship the GOP can always listen to Rush Limbaugh for the truth.

[cjd]

The trouble with elderly Americans?

Those over 70?

They vote Republican because they have bought into the welfare state mentality and look to the government for things like George W. Bush's Prescription Drug Program for the elderly, No Child Left Behind, Affirmative Action programs, etc.

They vote Republican because they have bought into Ronald Reagans' evil "Borrow and Spend" fast lane to national bankruptcy plan, his "Trickle Down Economics Theory" which even his own Vice President George H. W. Bush described publicly as "Voodoo Economics", and they fell for the B.S. that Reagan defeated Communism, when in fact Communism has defeated America at present.

That's the trouble with all the Americans over 70.

Of course, those who still worship the GOP can always listen to Rush Limbaugh for the truth.

Well when one party is evil and the other is down right evil where is the solution.... The sad fact is that the Democrats once touted as the working mans party have become the party of the disenfranchised.... (Something we soon will all be). It really is an impossible situation.