The relationship between Jews and Samaritans?

[Ari Ben-Canaan]

Were the Samaritans, or their ancestors, at any time Jews/Israelites?

Are we in any way related to Samaritans?

How similar is their torah to our Torah?  How similar is their language to our Hebrew?

Were the Samaritans a group who came to be during the Jewish exile who usurped the land of Israel?

Are the Samaritans a group of people who merely "bootlegged" Judaism in a "copycat" type way?

What is the deal with their temple?  Is it still standing?  Did/does it have similar structure to ours?

Do they use the Talmud at all?

Thanks. 

[muman613]

Samaritans stabbed the Jews in the back according to what I have learned. To me the phrase "Good Samaritan" is an Oxymoron...


http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/230/Q3/

Janet from Dallas, Texas wrote:

    Dear Rabbi,

    Could you please tell me the ways in which Samaritans differed from other Jews? I am preparing a talk and would like to be able to enumerate why the Samaritans were considered different from other Jews. Thank you for your help.

Dear Janet,

The Samaritans were non-Jews brought to Israel by the Assyrians to populate the North after the exile of the Ten Tribes. They ostensibly converted to Judaism, but in reality they continued worshipping idols, save for a period when they were mistakenly considered genuine converts; hence the Samaritans were not considered Jews, neither by Jewish law nor by the Jewish people.

They did not accept the Oral Tradition, which forms the overwhelming bulk of Jewish law. They also did not accept any books of the Bible except for the Pentateuch and the book of Joshua. Today, the Samaritan version of the Torah manuscript differs from ours by about 800 letters.

The Samaritans often acted as enemies of the Jewish people. They tried to destroy the Temple and to inform against the Jews to Roman authorities. The parable of the "Good Samaritan" was actually an anti-Semitic story intended to discredit the Jews.

http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/assyrian_conquest/

The Assyrians bring in a bunch of people from someplace else, who—because they are now living in Shomron or Samaria—come to be known as Samaritans.

The Samaritans are people who more or less adopt Judaism, but not properly or for the right reasons. Because their conversion is not complete or sincere, they are never accepted by the Jewish people, and they’re very resentful.

Indeed, the Samaritans have a long history of animosity towards the Jews, and while many people are familiar with the story of the “good Samaritan” from the Christian gospels, in Jewish consciousness (and history) the Samaritans are rarely considered good.

Today there are only about 600 Samaritans left, their cult site is in Mount Grizim, which is right next to the city of Shechem, called Nablus in Arabic.

Obviously they don't use the Talmud because they reject the Oral Tradition, which is what the Talmud is... Also the Talmud was not codified {or written} until after the second Beit Mikdash was destroyed... I believe the Samaritans were around since the time of the Greek invasion.

[Ari Ben-Canaan]

Fascinating.

The Samaritans were non-Jews brought to Israel by the Assyrians to populate the North after the exile of the Ten Tribes.

If the Jews were bused out to foreign lands, it would only make sense that others were bused in to replace them.  This must have been done to subjugate people under Assyrian rule, to fracture the identity of those who were conquered.

Thanks again!

[muman613]

http://www.jewishmag.com/78mag/samaritans/samaritans.htm

Brothers-enemies

Samaritans, from the ancient Hebrew word "guards", believe that the Mount Grizim is famous Moria and consider themselves heirs of the ancient Israel Kingdom. They claim that not all the people of Israel Kingdom were led away by the Assyrian king. A considerable number of them remained – foremost the branch of Yosef, which was split into the Ephraim and Menashe tribes.

Actually this isn't Tanach version. According to Tanach, modern Samaritans are descendants of pagan tribes from Mesopotamia, North Syria and Western Iraq, who were conquered by the Assyrian king and deported to the territory of the destroyed Israel Kingdom. Having settled down in the new land the newcomers absorbed the natives and adopted their G-d. They built sanctuary on the Mount Grizim and coexisted quite peacefully with Jews remained in Judea, after being ruined by Babylon.

Jews and Samaritans agree on the fact that the split occurred after the Jews had returned from Babylon. The Samaritan chronics narrate, that "shomronim" requested Nehemiah to allow them to participate in restoration of the new Temple in Jerusalem, but got definite refusal on assertion that they weren't Jews and so couldn't take part in a religious rite. According to the Tanach, Samaritans hindered the creation of the Second Temple by zealous adherence to Mount Grizim, and put obstacles in Nehemiah's work. This infuriated Nehemiah who discharged the Samaritans from the participation in the restoration of the Temple.

Now it's difficult to say which version is accurate. In any case the relationships between the two peoples were spoiled. The gap increased more after Alexander the Great's decision to allow Samaritans to erect their own Temple on the Grizim Mount, and the contradictions aggravated after Hasmonei king Yohanan Girhan had ascended the throne. Arrogant Girhan decided to annihilate "Samaritan's heresy". Having invaded Samaria he devastated it, and to overcome "pagans" completely razed the Grizim Mount Temple to the ground. It was a terrible shock for Samaritans, as not barbarians, but their own Brother, Jewish king, triumphed over the ruins of their sacred Temple!

Henceforth the Temple in Jerusalem became a symbol of lie and heartlessness for Samaritans. They called it not "Beit-Mikdash" but "Beit-mahtash" ("House of Shame"). Their bitterness produced probably the first anti-Jewish calumnies in human history. The slander, which took deep roots in Samaria, said that Jews hid a human skeleton in Jerusalem Temple instead of "aron kodesh" and secretly worshipped it.

Jews weren't better than Samaritans in their prejudices. Greeting Samaritans with jeers, Jews fastidiously turned away, spread rumors, that "shomronim" worshipped ancient pagan G-d Nergal, and made human sacrifices. It was a typical example of hatred, engendered by religious arrogance and petty cavils. But the price for it turned out to be extremely high.

[Dan Ben Noah]

The Samaritans came into the picture during the time that the northern kingdom of Israel was exiled to Assyria.  When the Assyrians conquered their enemies, they had a tactic of replacing the population of the nations that they conquered with the population of other nations so that there would be less chance of a revolution.  So Israelites were exiled to Assyria and replaced with Samaritans.  The Tanach itself shows the origin of the Samaritans in Israel:

2 Kings 17: 24 The king of Assyria brought people from Babylon, Cuthah, Avva, Hamath and Sepharvaim and settled them in the towns of Samaria to replace the Israelites. They took over Samaria and lived in its towns. 25 When they first lived there, they did not worship the LORD; so he sent lions among them and they killed some of the people. 26 It was reported to the king of Assyria: "The people you deported and resettled in the towns of Samaria do not know what the G-d of that country requires. He has sent lions among them, which are killing them off, because the people do not know what he requires."
 27 Then the king of Assyria gave this order: "Have one of the priests you took captive from Samaria go back to live there and teach the people what the G-d of the land requires." 28 So one of the priests who had been exiled from Samaria came to live in Bethel and taught them how to worship the LORD.

 29 Nevertheless, each national group made its own gods in the several towns where they settled, and set them up in the shrines the people of Samaria had made at the high places. 30 The men from Babylon made Succoth Benoth, the men from Cuthah made Nergal, and the men from Hamath made Ashima; 31 the Avvites made Nibhaz and Tartak, and the Sepharvites burned their children in the fire as sacrifices to Adrammelech and Anammelech, the gods of Sepharvaim. 32 They worshiped the LORD, but they also appointed all sorts of their own people to officiate for them as priests in the shrines at the high places. 33 They worshiped the LORD, but they also served their own gods in accordance with the customs of the nations from which they had been brought.


The Jews were not initially related to the Samaritans, I don't know how much intermarriage has taken place since then.

The Samaritan Torah is similar to the Jewish Torah but it has some major changes.  For example, they added a commandment onto the 10 commandments which commands them to worship at Mount Gerizim, which is their holy site today.  The Hebrew they use probably does descend from the time that they were brought into Israel though because it is a more ancient version of Hebrew than the script that the Torah is written in today.  

I don't know if they have an actual Temple, they offer sacrifices at some site on Mount Gerizim and have an anointed high priest.

They do not use the Talmud, they don't even have the Tanach.  They only use their version of the 5 books of Moses.

[Dan Ben Noah]

Actually I forgot to add that they now claim to descend from the tribes of Joseph, which obviously contradicts the Tanach quote above.

[Ari Ben-Canaan]

Thanks Dan, really intriguing stuff! 

[Holy Terror]

To me the phrase "Good Samaritan" is an Oxymoron...

to me "A good Samaritan" is a dead one.

[muman613]

To me the phrase "Good Samaritan" is an Oxymoron...

to me "A good Samaritan" is a dead one.

Me too... What they did to the Jewish people during the Roman invasion...

http://www.jewishmag.com/135mag/beitar/beitar.htm

Legend tells us that at this time when Severus was contemplating withdrawal a Samaritan presented him with a plan. He knew that inside Beitar was the holy Rabbi Elazar HaModai who had been fasting since the siege of Beitar began and praying for divine help for all of the Jews. It was considered that in the merit of this holy Rabbi that bar Kochba and his men enjoyed their success. This Samaritan came to Rabbi Elazar, stood behind him and pretended to whisper something in his ear. When word spread that Rabbi Elazar had conversed with a Samaritan whose reputation as a hater of Israel was well known, Shimon bar Kochba became furious and demanded of Rabbi Elazar to know what was said. Rabbi Elazar HaModai denied a conversation since he was unaware of the Samaritan standing behind him while he was deeply involved in his prayers. Bar Kochba became so angry with him that he hit the elderly sage. Rabbi Elazar HaModai who was in a weakened state after so many days of fasting died.

From this point onwards, everything went wrong with the city of Beitar. The Romans stormed the city and successfully breached the walls. They overwhelmed the city and killed tens of thousands of Jews who hid in the fortified city. Tradition tells us that it was on the Ninth of Av, Tisha B'av, when the city fell and all inside were killed.

Thus ended the Jewish revolt against the Romans and began the great exile of nearly two thousand years from which we are just beginning to emerge.

[Ari Ben-Canaan]

To me the phrase "Good Samaritan" is an Oxymoron...

to me "A good Samaritan" is a dead one.

Me too... What they did to the Jewish people during the Roman invasion...

http://www.jewishmag.com/135mag/beitar/beitar.htm

Legend tells us that at this time when Severus was contemplating withdrawal a Samaritan presented him with a plan. He knew that inside Beitar was the holy Rabbi Elazar HaModai who had been fasting since the siege of Beitar began and praying for divine help for all of the Jews. It was considered that in the merit of this holy Rabbi that bar Kochba and his men enjoyed their success. This Samaritan came to Rabbi Elazar, stood behind him and pretended to whisper something in his ear. When word spread that Rabbi Elazar had conversed with a Samaritan whose reputation as a hater of Israel was well known, Shimon bar Kochba became furious and demanded of Rabbi Elazar to know what was said. Rabbi Elazar HaModai denied a conversation since he was unaware of the Samaritan standing behind him while he was deeply involved in his prayers. Bar Kochba became so angry with him that he hit the elderly sage. Rabbi Elazar HaModai who was in a weakened state after so many days of fasting died.

From this point onwards, everything went wrong with the city of Beitar. The Romans stormed the city and successfully breached the walls. They overwhelmed the city and killed tens of thousands of Jews who hid in the fortified city. Tradition tells us that it was on the Ninth of Av, Tisha B'av, when the city fell and all inside were killed.

Thus ended the Jewish revolt against the Romans and began the great exile of nearly two thousand years from which we are just beginning to emerge.

I have read in my "Concise Book of Mitzvoth" [by Chofetz Chaim] that when a Jew kills another member of Jewry it is considered as if the whole world has been killed.  For a Tzadik Jew to be killed by another righteous Jew... truly the end of a world takes place it would seem.  I have read that the Samaritans of today have genetic problems as a result of heavy inbreeding over the past several centuries.  This would seem to be quite a punishment doled out by HaShem for such loathsome treachery!  I have also read that Samaritan men now try and lure Jewish women into marriage [as a cure to their inbreeding problems], which to me is outrageous for a Jewish woman to do [what kind of self hating Jewish woman would throw in with a lot of inbred non-Jews who have caused such catastrophe for one's own people!!  I suppose there really are Jewesses this sick... to throw away a millennias old Jewish legacy on "Johnny 'AntiSemite' Inbred".  G-d forbid!!!].

[Zelhar]

I think there are only about a thousand of them left. Half live in Hulon and half in Shechem, near mount Grizim. They all have double citizenship- Israeli and Palestinian. They speak modern Hebrew and Arabic, at least those who live with the Arabs, but the Hebrew they use for praying sounds different. They claim they have a problem of producing more males than females which is why they have to import brides. From what I heard usually they bring their brides from former soviet republics like Uzbekistan. The Hulonite Samaritans have Israeli mentality but it seems the Shechmite Samaritans have Arab mentality in regards to how they treat women and other members of their community, even though being a tiny minority they are pacified. During the second Intifada, there were a couple of cases of Samaritans from Shechem who tried to sneak terrorist into Israel exploiting their free passage rights.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I think there are only about a thousand of them left. Half live in Hulon and half in Shechem, near mount Grizim.

Oh I thought even less than that, but they're on their way out either way.

[Zelhar]

I think there are only about a thousand of them left. Half live in Hulon and half in Shechem, near mount Grizim.

Oh I thought even less than that, but they're on their way out either way.

Well you seem to be correct, their number is estimated at 750. But they have been consistently growing in numbers since 1919 when they numbered only 150.

[AsheDina]

To me the phrase "Good Samaritan" is an Oxymoron...

to me "A good Samaritan" is a dead one.

That is a sickening thing to say.
Many people in America believe they are 'Good Samaritans"  Meaning a good person that helps.
Are you talking about ALL people that live in samaria??

[muman613]

To me the phrase "Good Samaritan" is an Oxymoron...

to me "A good Samaritan" is a dead one.

That is a sickening thing to say.
Many people in America believe they are 'Good Samaritans"  Meaning a good person that helps.
Are you talking about ALL people that live in samaria??

We are not talking about your "Good Samaritan" in the sense that it is a person who does good deeds... The Samaritans were a break-away sects from Judaism and they stabbed us in the backs... I concur that Samaritans are not friends to Jews.


See this post http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,47347.msg452003.html#msg452003

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

To me the phrase "Good Samaritan" is an Oxymoron...

to me "A good Samaritan" is a dead one.

That is a sickening thing to say.
Many people in America believe they are 'Good Samaritans"  Meaning a good person that helps.
Are you talking about ALL people that live in samaria??

We are not talking about your "Good Samaritan" in the sense that it is a person who does good deeds... The Samaritans were a break-away sects from Judaism and they stabbed us in the backs... I concur that Samaritans are not friends to Jews.


See this post http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,47347.msg452003.html#msg452003

The protagonist in a certain story of the Christians' Bible aka "new testament" was the so-called "good samaritan."  That was purposeful because it took an enemy of the Jewish people and raised its status up as the hero of a story doing a good deed because that was supposed to mock us since samaritans were against us.  Nowadays people refer to any citizen doing a good deed as a "good samaritan" but really, that term referred to actual Samaritans, and it was a message trying to elevate the enemies of the Jews and lower the Jews (and their religion) in the eyes of the reader...